SEC Slurping

[monkey1371]

I don't know why this is a hard concept.

When your #1 team(ranked #6) in your conference plays the #3 team(ranked #9) in the SEC.....Beat them...don't lose like UW did.
When your #2 team (ranked #8) in your conference plays the #5 team(ranked #25) in the SEC......Don't fall behind 33-3.
When your #1 team(ranked #2) in your conference plays the #7 team in the SEC(unranked)......Don't need a failed 2-point conversion to win.

You think the #2 SEC team is going down by 30 to the #5 team in any other conference?
You think the #1 SEC team is going to need a missed 2 point conversion to survive the 7th best team in any other conference?

Don't want the SEC to continue to get sucked off.....beat them in those nationally televised non-conference games.

 

[frostycane]

You’re running into the wind trying to get this “SEC sucks/cheats/conspires and the ACC is better than you think” meme aloft. Ain’t gonna fly because we’re talking about this year.

This year … SEC looks very good. This year … ACC looks scary weak. The only teams with a pulse are Clemson, VT and Miami. BC is alone in 4th place. The rest of the conference is bad. And looking back on the 24-3 VT win against FSU doesn’t give me much faith that they’re some conference juggernaut either.

Face it, the SEC is showing some of their former glory this year. Yes, it’s still Bama and the rest, but their “rest”, to the tune of about 6 different schools would have their praises sung in all of the other conferences.

That’s a negative. And you mean this year as in three games in? Where the almighty A&M lost to Clemson but still got ranked? This isn’t about whether or not there are good teams in the SEC. it’s are they generally over ranked? Yes, yes they are and they rig the system so the best teams have wins over “ranked” teams. When a team like A&M just so happens to jump into the rankings the same week they are set to play Bama and after a mind blowing win over ULM or whichever nobody team they beat. See how that conveniently worked out?

 

[frostycane]

I don't know why this is a hard concept.

When your #1 team(ranked #6) in your conference plays the #3 team(ranked #9) in the SEC.....Beat them...don't lose like UW did.
When your #2 team (ranked #8) in your conference plays the #5 team(ranked #25) in the SEC......Don't fall behind 33-3.
When your #1 team(ranked #2) in your conference plays the #7 team in the SEC(unranked)......Don't need a failed 2-point conversion to win.

You think the #2 SEC team is going down by 30 to the #5 team in any other conference?
You think the #1 SEC team is going to need a missed 2 point conversion to survive the 7th best team in any other conference?

Don't want the SEC to continue to get sucked off.....beat them in those nationally televised non-conference games.

You mean during bowl season? I mean you can’t take two or three games and pull them out when the SEC model is much much bigger of a sample size. It’s easy to have this conversation right now. But let’s watch it play out. You will continue to watch SEC teams make three and four spot jumps for beating Tennessee, and only drop one or two when they lose. It’s like clockwork. Heck look at LSU last year. They beat Auburn, after being way way down, and LOST to EVERY other team in their schedule with a pulse including the almighty Troy at home no less but ended the season ranked 19 with four losses. Auburn 12 with 4 losses ahead of 7 three loss teams. And who was the third highest ranked 4 loss team? None other than Mississippi State. Who’s best win was 4 loss LSU. Funny how that plays out.

 

[monkey1371]

You mean during bowl season? I mean you can’t take two or three games and pull them out when the SEC model is much much bigger of a sample size. It’s easy to have this conversation right now. But let’s watch it play out. You will continue to watch SEC teams make three and four spot jumps for beating Tennessee, and only drop one or two when they lose. It’s like clockwork. Heck look at LSU last year. They beat Auburn, after being way way down, and LOST to EVERY other team in their schedule with a pulse including the almighty Troy at home no less but ended the season ranked 19 with four losses. Auburn 12 with 4 losses ahead of 7 three loss teams. And who was the third highest ranked 4 loss team? None other than Mississippi State. Who’s best win was 4 loss LSU. Funny how that plays out.

It goes beyond three games(which are huge in setting national perception).......It goes to their whole non-conference performance.

They won all the toss up games and games they were supposed to on paper....
Bama-Lville(51-14)
Miss-TTU(47-27),
MSU @KSU(31-10)
Mizz @Purd(30-27)

Besides the other wins.....Look at their losses.
- Besides the aTm loss to #2 Clemson
- a bottom SEC team Vandy takes #8 ND down to the wire.....
- a bottom SEC team Tenn lost #12 WVU 40-14

Only Arkansas with 2 bad losses, has a weak non-conference loss.

No other conference comes close in having
- The marquee wins (Washington, Miami)
- won all the toss up games
- only 1 team with bad losses

Here is my counter argument.....You have all these concepts of why the SEC is over ranked. I challenge you.....

In order for a team to be over-ranked......a team needs to be under-ranked. I wanna see the arguments why this team/conference is getting screwed because of the SEC.

Why should PSU that got lucky at home against App St be higher ranked than Auburn who beat Washington?
Why should BYU that lost to CAL be ranked ahead of aTm? How come 3-0 Cal who beat #25 BYU(2-1) is not even ranked? (SEC Bias)

It's easy to complain that this team or conference is getting "sucked off"....what is hard is coming up with clear reasons another team is getting screwed.....

 

[frostycane]

BYU at least beat the one good team they faced. And you made your own argument a team like Cal isn’t ranked while having a solid win against BYU. Yet A&M who was not ranked ALL year some how jumps in there after beating ULM. And not only did they move into the top 25 after that big W but they jumped all the way to 22. So you tell me is playing a top team close, but losing, beating a group of 5 team and an FCS team worthyof going from totally unranked to 22?

Dude you should know I’ve been following this stuff for a long time. Like back when we used to get crushed for SOS in the Big East and then the Big East would go 5-1 in the bowl season or something and it was like “WTF!” Like in 2000 when FSU got the zone over us.

I respect the SEC. they have built themselves up very nicely and it is a tough conference. But it is no doubt over played just how tough it is. And in years past the bowl season usually offers up a solid dose of reality when those mid tier teams go out and get smoked

 

[frostycane]

And though BYU lost to an undefeated Cal, they went on the road and beat the #6 team in the nation. What happened when LSU beat the number 7 team? Oh that’s right they jumped like 10-12 spots. Look at preseason and end of season polls. You will see them LITTERED with Sec teams that almost never finish as high as they started. Or if you really look at their record they beat one of the four or five good teams on their schedule. Now yeah they have a lot of good teams on their schedule but losing to them shouldn’t be a good thing. No one ever gave WVU or Cuse credit when we’d whack them back in the day. They went right to unranked!

 

[iLoveTDs]

Every year we whine about this.

They win almost every title. It’s the best conference. After you accept it, easier football will be to watch.

 

[Disgustipated]

Many years ago I finally realized the polls weren't about merit but merely to generate TV interest. Once the BCS and ESPN got involved the SEC became unstoppable. If the polls were based on Merit, LSU would be ranked 1 right now. I am certainly in the camp of no preseason polls, it is such an unfair advantage, its not realistic.

 

[HSFC]

Bama
Georgia
.
.
LSU
Auburn

That’s 4 good teams vs ACC 3 good teams

They’re not “way better”

Think of what you just said, Texas A&M took Clemson to the wire and you don't have them in SEC top 5

 

[iLoveTDs]

Think of what you just said, Texas A&M took Clemson to the wire and you don't have them in SEC top 5

Plus what have we done to be considered a good team?

If we end up 8-4 is that a good team?

We’d finish 3rd, at best, in the SEC West division. Think about that.

 

[monkey1371]

That’s a negative. And you mean this year as in three games in? Where the almighty A&M lost to Clemson but still got ranked? This isn’t about whether or not there are good teams in the SEC. it’s are they generally over ranked? Yes, yes they are and they rig the system so the best teams have wins over “ranked” teams. When a team like A&M just so happens to jump into the rankings the same week they are set to play Bama and after a mind blowing win over ULM or whichever nobody team they beat. See how that conveniently worked out?

You are also complaining about aTm being ranked based upon 2 blowout wins vs cupcakes and a last minute loss to Clemson.

But Clemson

 

[monkey1371]

BYU at least beat the one good team they faced. And you made your own argument a team like Cal isn’t ranked while having a solid win against BYU. Yet A&M who was not ranked ALL year some how jumps in there after beating ULM. And not only did they move into the top 25 after that big W but they jumped all the way to 22. So you tell me is playing a top team close, but losing, beating a group of 5 team and an FCS team worthyof going from totally unranked to 22?

Dude you should know I’ve been following this stuff for a long time. Like back when we used to get crushed for SOS in the Big East and then the Big East would go 5-1 in the bowl season or something and it was like “WTF!” Like in 2000 when FSU got the zone over us.

I respect the SEC. they have built themselves up very nicely and it is a tough conference. But it is no doubt over played just how tough it is. And in years past the bowl season usually offers up a solid dose of reality when those mid tier teams go out and get smoked

And I have been following it a long time too, since the mid 1980's.....And what I usually find is a lot of slanted whining and complaining.

Yes there has always been dumb stuff in the polls like how in 1997 Pac 10 Champ Wash State 10-1 was ranked #8 behind a #5 UCLA that was 9-2 and lost to Washington State head to head....Why was that relevant? Because #1 Michigan had to play #8 WSU in rose bowl, while #2 Nebraska got #3 Tenn in orange bowl. If WSU was ranked properly at #5, chances are Michigan doesn't have to split the national title with Nebraska after both won their games.

Look, you are simultaneously complaining about the 6/7 team (aTm) in the SEC getting ranked because they took #2 Clemson down to the wire, and blew out their cupcakes, while being mad that the voters punished Clemson for being unimpressive against and unranked aTm team and sleepwalking through the Georgia Southern game.

One if not both of those things can/should happen.

If you believe that Clemson is truly the #2 team, why shouldn't aTm be rewarded and ranked then?
If you believe that aTm shouldn't be ranked, why shouldn't Clemson be punished for needing a last minute play to win?
Why is not the combination of both an acceptable result?

Yes the SEC gets some favors in the rankings.....the last few years they were top heavy and didn't deserve some of the benefit. However....

This year
SEC would have 5 of the top 6 teams if they merged with the ACC (and probably the top 2, and maybe the top 4)
SEC would have 5 of the top 7 teams if they merged with the B10 (and probably the top 2)
SEC would have 5 of the top 7 teams if they merged with the B12 (and probably the top 2)
SEC would have 6 of the top 8 teams if they merged with the P12 (and probably the top 2, and maybe the top 4)

But this year, when they can trot out 4-5 teams that legitimately have an argument that would be the top 1 or 2 teams in every other conference....you can't complain about them getting some favors in the rankings. The other conferences need to step up their game, not just have one year wonders like the ACC did in 2016 and do it consistently.

 

[frostycane]

I’m saying the SEC stacks the rankings. Which is why aTm jumped into the rankings for basically no reason. Or how UGA jumps Clemson for NO reason even though Clem even has 3 first place votes. That means a crap ton of voters have UGA over Clem even though Clem has first place votes. And they not beat equally bad teams this week yet oh 3 of Clemson’s 6 first place votes disappeared this week and UGA just happens to jump them. The SEC controls the voting to get their teams ranked to help push the idea that they are beating “ranked” teams.

 

[monkey1371]

I’m saying the SEC stacks the rankings. Which is why aTm jumped into the rankings for basically no reason. Or how UGA jumps Clemson for NO reason even though Clem even has 3 first place votes. That means a crap ton of voters have UGA over Clem even though Clem has first place votes. And they not beat equally bad teams this week yet oh 3 of Clemson’s 6 first place votes disappeared this week and UGA just happens to jump them. The SEC controls the voting to get their teams ranked to help push the idea that they are beating “ranked” teams.

Stop.....Maybe Clemson has 3 first place votes because 3 sports writers in ACC country have as big a hard on for the SEC as you do. Right now Clemson deserves zero first place votes, they have not looked anything remotely like the best team in the country.

I find some of your choice of words disingenuous in your arguments. You speak as if all losses are the same, and all wins are the same to make your points when they are clearly not.

For example: "How exactly is Texas a&m ranked right behind "grossly" over rated Miami, even though they weren't ranked just last week when they LOST to the only team they have played with a pulse? "

So Both Miami and aTm have blown out 2 cupcakes. Miami loses to LSU and trails 33-3. aTm loses to #2 Clemson on a missed 2 point conversion. So why should Miami be ranked ahead of aTm when they not only lost, but got blow off the field by the only team they played with a pulse (using your own words)?

Based upon all your posts.....You should have a real problem with Miami being ranked? Correct?

 

[frostycane]

Well using your unflawed logic Mismi is right on based on their preseason ranking. They were Top ten, took a big big drop for their bad loss, yet ATM was not ranked preseason have a loss albeit a “quality loss” and has only beaten two garbage teams. And now they are Ranked after beating ULM! Yet Cal or a BYU are way behind them even though they are undefeated or a one loss team WITH a quality WIN @ that teams place. I obviously won’t be able to get you to see it. But think of it like this aTm is probably what the 6th or 7th best team. They will more than likely lose to Bama LSU and Auburn, but they will win like a MSU game and be a four loss ranked in the top twenty at years end just like LSU was last year. So yeah 1-4 against teams with a pulse on your record is over ranking if your ranked st that point. Or like 4 loss Auburn at like 12? Yeah that’s over rated IMO

 

[frostycane]

I mean seriously look at LSU last year. Look at their wins, and then their losses and tell me that’s the number 19 team. Or Clem loses to Bama in the cfp they drop 4 spots yet UGA loses and they gain a spot? I get it was OT but a loss is a loss at that point. Clemson didn’t get blown out. Explain this look at the teams strength of schedule and compare their rankings. I’ll wait...

 

[frostycane]

Fact is SEC teams take big jumps in the rankings, many times for a “good loss” or beating no one, and they take smaller drops down the rankings then other teams from “lesser” conferences. If the aTm loss was such a quality loss why didn’t they get ranked after that? What about that ULM win was worth such a big jump this week? If you wanna bury your head in the sand go ahead. But I’ve given you plenty enough proof IMO. And I’d go as far as saying check the likes from posters in this thread. They agree, they see it.

 

[monkey1371]

I mean seriously look at LSU last year. Look at their wins, and then their losses and tell me that’s the number 19 team. Or Clem loses to Bama in the cfp they drop 4 spots yet UGA loses and they gain a spot? I get it was OT but a loss is a loss at that point. Clemson didn’t get blown out. Explain this look at the teams strength of schedule and compare their rankings. I’ll wait...

You'll wait, because UGA leapfrogged Clemson after they won their CFP Semi-final game against #2 OU, and #1 Clemson lost theirs.....

And then lost to Bama in OT in the National Championship game, while Clemson lost by 18 to Bama in the semi-final

You seriously just typed this.....you can't make this up.

 

[monkey1371]

Fact is SEC teams take big jumps in the rankings, many times for a “good loss” or beating no one, and they take smaller drops down the rankings then other teams from “lesser” conferences. If the aTm loss was such a quality loss why didn’t they get ranked after that? What about that ULM win was worth such a big jump this week? If you wanna bury your head in the sand go ahead. But I’ve given you plenty enough proof IMO. And I’d go as far as saying check the likes from posters in this thread. They agree, they see it.

Do you bother to look at the "others receiving votes" which tell a big part of the story....

aTm was 33 in the preseason poll
moved to 29 in week 2
moved to 27 after the Clemson loss
moved to 22 last week......

Last week they moved past:
#26 Utah - Lost (21-7) to Washington
#25 MSU - Idle (but had lost to ASU and ASU lost this weekend making that loss worse)
#23 ASU - lost (28-21) to San Diego State
#22 USC - lost (37-14) to Texas
#17 BSU - lost (44-21) to #24 OK State

Which teams do you have a problem with them moving past? Why?

Cal went from receiving 0 votes to 40, which puts them from outside the top 41 to #30 this week.
BYU went from receiving 0 votes to 75, which puts them from outside the top 41 to #25 this week.
BC went from #28 to #23, staying one spot behind aTm, like they were last week.

Those are the facts.....aTm moved from #27 to #22 when 4 teams in front of them lost and 1 didn't play but the team that beat them had a bad loss.

CAL and BYU made far bigger jumps. Not some huge SEC conspiracy when you actually look at the facts.

 

[frostycane]

BC is undefeated. And you basically made my argument, IMO. A&M moves up by losing. That happens to almost NO ONE! Unless you play inthe SEC.