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Said it earlier and Walton > Barkley

Ber said:
FYI Zeke weighs the same as Barkley. Not a fan of Elliott but he’s proven it in the league
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yeah i think Barkley lost some weight entering the combine measurments today. i think during the season most places had him over 230lbs.
but again zekes nfl production, yeah he's obviously been good, but how much of it was Dallas' OL?
 
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calinative umstudent said:
yeah i think Barkley lost some weight entering the combine measurments today. i think during the season most places had him over 230lbs.
but again zekes nfl production, yeah he's obviously been good, but how much of it was Dallas' OL?
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Did you happen to watch him after contact at OSU and Dallas
 
Ber said:
Did you happen to watch him after contact at OSU and Dallas
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did i watch zeke at all? yeah. he was good.
my point is how much of zekes production was that ol his rookie year?

its a valid question. The dallas ol took a step back this year and Zekes ypc went down from 5.1 his rookie year which is awesome to 4.1 this past year, which is solid, but not great or anything. Didn't crack 1k yards due to injuries.
 
calinative umstudent said:
Cook is 20lbs lighter. not as fast. wasn't a good inside runner compared to Barkley. has stiffer hips. NOt even close to as good as Barkley in the receiving game. had big fumble issues. and had major questions on his 3rd down blocking ability. And Barkley is likely more elusive!

if you think cook had no issues you're tripping. Barkley much better prospect. its not even close. Secondly his off the field concerns are apart of what makes you a top prospect or a lower level one. You can't just ignore them.
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I think those are are legitimate points about Cook. I don't agree with all of them, and agree with Brock that I liked Cook better coming out. I see some red flags with Barkley. I don't think it's as black & white on either side as both of you are saying.

For arguments sake - the "best RB since Adrian Peterson" was also used for Trent Richardson - http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/trent-richardson?id=2533032

"STRENGTHS Richardson is as compact and coiled an athlete that the running back position has seen since Adrian Peterson"

DMoney nailed it that he was overrated, and he took a lot of shots for saying it at the time

Using ESPN, here's the top rated RB's since Peterson:

07 - Peterson (98)
08 - McFadden (98)
09 - Moreno (94)
10 - Spiller (95)
11 - Ingram (92)
12 - Richardson (97)
13 - Lacy (88)
14 - Hyde (88)
15 - Gurley (92)
16 - Elliot (93)
17 - Fournette (93), Cook (90)
18 - Barkley (95)

As Brock said, Barkley has had some bad games Barkley averaged under 3.0 ypc 5 times in his last 18 games - against Ohio State, Mich St., Rutgers & Indiana (twice). That only happened to Cook 2 times in 38 games.

I've got no problem if you think Barkley is better than Gurley/Fournette/Zeke/Cook - but also think it's legitimate if you don't.
 
calinative umstudent said:
did i watch zeke at all? yeah. he was good.
my point is how much of zekes production was that ol his rookie year?

its a valid question. The dallas ol took a step back this year and Zekes ypc went down from 5.1 his rookie year which is awesome to 4.1 this past year, which is solid, but not great or anything. Didn't crack 1k yards due to injuries.
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FYI, he wasn’t injured he was suspended
 
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bshaw28 said:
I think those are are legitimate points about Cook. I don't agree with all of them, and agree with Brock that I liked Cook better coming out. I see some red flags with Barkley. I don't think it's as black & white on either side as both of you are saying.

For arguments sake - the "best RB since Adrian Peterson" was also used for Trent Richardson - http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/trent-richardson?id=2533032

"STRENGTHS Richardson is as compact and coiled an athlete that the running back position has seen since Adrian Peterson"

DMoney nailed it that he was overrated, and he took a lot of shots for saying it at the time

Using ESPN, here's the top rated RB's since Peterson:

07 - Peterson (98)
08 - McFadden (98)
09 - Moreno (94)
10 - Spiller (95)
11 - Ingram (92)
12 - Richardson (97)
13 - Lacy (88)
14 - Hyde (88)
15 - Gurley (92)
16 - Elliot (93)
17 - Fournette (93), Cook (90)
18 - Barkley (95)

As Brock said, Barkley has had some bad games Barkley averaged under 3.0 ypc 5 times in his last 18 games - against Ohio State, Mich St., Rutgers & Indiana (twice). That only happened to Cook 2 times in 38 games.

I've got no problem if you think Barkley is better than Gurley/Fournette/Zeke/Cook - but also think it's legitimate if you don't.
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Cook doesn’t belong in that discussion
 
SB will have a very long career in the NFL. There isn't one aspect of the position he won't grade out at extremely well. He's the most complete back since I don't even know when. If he was a Cane, he would be mentioned in The same breath as our best ever.

Forget Walton as a discussion point, but I bet there are people here who think Duke was better in college. Who will be the first to admit it I wonder. A lot of people had Cook and Duke at the same level, not sure why, and here we have some saying Cook was the better prospect compared to SB.

Game recognizes game here and you know what, kid is a legit talent any team would be happy to have on their roster.
 
You
SayWhat said:
SB will have a very long career in the NFL. There isn't one aspect of the position he won't grade out at extremely well. He's the most complete back since I don't even know when. If he was a Cane, he would be mentioned in The same breath as our best ever.

Forget Walton as a discussion point, but I bet there are people here who think Duke was better in college. Who will be the first to admit it I wonder. A lot of people had Cook and Duke at the same level, not sure why, and here we have some saying Cook was the better prospect compared to SB.

Game recognizes game here and you know what, kid is a legit talent any team would be happy to have
SayWhat said:
SB will have a very long career in the NFL. There isn't one aspect of the position he won't grade out at extremely well. He's the most complete back since I don't even know when. If he was a Cane, he would be mentioned in The same breath as our best ever.

Forget Walton as a discussion point, but I bet there are people here who think Duke was better in college. Who will be the first to admit it I wonder. A lot of people had Cook and Duke at the same level, not sure why, and here we have some saying Cook was the better prospect compared to SB.

Game recognizes game here and you know what, kid is a legit talent any team would be happy to have on their roster.
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100%. This kid is special. 3 down. Back who can block and catch it. Great KOR guy but be wouldn’t be back there in the league. Hester ended NFL returns anyway!
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I love these debates - it shows how so many see things different and value certain parts of games more than others.

Barkley is a ridiculous physical specimen. His speed and burst for a guy his size is incredible and he cuts on a dime. His legs are tree trunk and he is one of the best receiving backs out there. Is he without flaws? Absolutely not. He does trip himself up too often with his forward lean and choppy steps, which also allows for some shoestring tackles. He's like Barry Sanders in how he breaks down and cuts (the good) but also in how he dances too much sometimes instead of hitting a hole and going (the bad).

Anyone denying his talents though needs to go back and watch his highlight reels. Take the Penn State piece out of it. Take the "once in a generation" labels out of it. Just turn on the tape and enjoy watching a guy do things very few can do.
 
Rellyrell said:
Barkley will be the next great PSU RB...............to flop in the NFL. (See DJ Rozier, Blair Thomas Ki-Jana Carter, Larry Johnson*, Curtis Enis, Tony Hunt)

*For two years, LJ was the best back in the NFL....all his other years, he was a nobody
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Barkley is a different physical specimen than those backs you referenced. It's also a different game now. LJJ was a talented guy. He ran for 1700+ yards in back to back years. But that guy had/has some serious demons that derailed his career.

Barkley's success will depend on which team picks him and what that scheme is. If he was on NO, he could do what Kamara is doing, and more. If he goes to the Browns? Well......it's the Browns.
 
Ber said:
Cook doesn’t belong in that discussion
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I disagree. It's such a small sample size, but Cook was on pace for a 1,300 yd season before getting hurt.

20+ yd runs this year - Cook (4), Fournette (4), Elliot (5), Gurley (8). The most any RB had was 12. So Cook already showed legit big play ability.

Cook has a different build/style - he's a smaller big play guy, more like LeSean McCoy. But I'd put McCoy right up there with any RB in the league.
 
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South Florida backs always outperform their draft slot.

I would wager a paycheck on Sony Michel outperforming Barkley and I'd consider it safe money. Mark Walton? I'm not so sure there, but he will far exceed his draft slot, for this I am certain.

For those hating on Dalvin...even after historically poor athletic testing, he was the league's second best rookie rusher behind Kareem Hunt before he was hurt. Dalvin would have probably been Rookie of the Year if he didn't get hurt.
 
calinative umstudent said:
bruh you have literally no clue what you're talking about.
Zeke is a lite version of Barkley. Barkley is definitely the better prospect. He bigger stronger better.
He is definitely better than Fournette coming out. Hes got an antire skill set LF wishes he had which is the ability to make an impact in the passing game.
Gurley is awesome, but he wasn't the talent barkley is.
cook is a joke. he was a ******* 2nd round pick for christs sakes, yet you think hes a better prospect than Barkely.
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You're either trolling or dating Barkley.........no other options
 
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Watch the tape on Barkley.

I am not saying he's a bust...but he is hardly some generational talent.

In today's NFL, what makes running backs successful is the ability to at least get what the offensive line gives you. Its what makes Zeke Elliott, Leonard Fournette, and Todd Gurley such safe draft picks. At minimum, they will get you what the OL gives you. What makes them elite backs is they can also get some yards on their own after that initial OL push.

Barkley can do the latter...its why he is a highlight reel player. But the former...the foundational approach to running the ball is where he struggles on the tape. Penn State's OL stinks anyway, but that isn't to say that Penn State's OL didn't have wide open holes that Barkley would simply choose to ignore. In the NFL, those holes are smaller and patience and vision are KEY...its hallmarks of the big three RB prospects (Zeke, BUGA, Gurley), but something Barkley lacks.

He's going to test like an athletic freak at his size, I'm sure...but the tape won't always translate to what succeeds in the NFL today. I still think he'll be a starting quality player...but generational? I don't think so.
 
Enough talk about 'what ifs' with Cook getting hurt. The thing is he's always hurt and availability is the most important ability in the NFL. Cook was constantly dealing with shoulder, ankle and soft tissue injuries at FSU. It's no surprise that a guy with hamstring and ankle issues tore his ACL early in his NFL career. He doesn't have the build or running style to absorb regular contact as an inside runner.

Throw in off-field concerns and pass protection issues and it's easy to see why he wasn't a 1st round pick. And yeah I'd rather have Duke on my team. He's an elite receiver who can split out wide, he has less alarming injury concerns and he's a guy you can trust off the field.

@BoxingRobes agree on your Barkley analysis but Fournette cannot generate yards on his own and he is not even close to an elite back. He has no moves in the open field except to lower his shoulder and try to deliver a blow. There's a reason his YPC is so low despite 2 75+ yard runs.
 
HighSeas said:
Enough talk about 'what ifs' with Cook getting hurt. The thing is he's always hurt and availability is the most important ability in the NFL. Cook was constantly dealing with shoulder, ankle and soft tissue injuries at FSU. It's no surprise that a guy with hamstring and ankle issues tore his ACL early in his NFL career. He doesn't have the build or running style to absorb regular contact as an inside runner.

Throw in off-field concerns and pass protection issues and it's easy to see why he wasn't a 1st round pick. And yeah I'd rather have Duke on my team. He's an elite receiver who can split out wide, he has less alarming injury concerns and he's a guy you can trust off the field.

@BoxingRobes agree on your Barkley analysis but Fournette cannot generate yards on his own and he is not even close to an elite back. He has no moves in the open field except to lower his shoulder and try to deliver a blow. There's a reason his YPC is so low despite 2 75+ yard runs.
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Teams employ up to four running backs, many situational, many versatile, to run their offense. Availability isn't really the most important ability in the NFL when it comes to running backs. This is why Minnesota still finished 7th in the NFL in total rushing despite being in the bottom 10 in ypc, despite missing what is and will be, their franchise running back. Same with Dallas missing Zeke Elliott and finishing 2nd.
 
I think Barkley's the best back but you really can't tell how close Walton is to him and the other backs for that matter based on college performance. The combines will change the scenery a lot as they are based on measurable both physically, mentally, and of course consider character.
 
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