RB

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Stop the madness.

NEITHER of the two main recruiting services use "Top 200". Of which Cody Brown WAS (Rivals). They both use, essentially, a Top 250, of which BOTH players were, on BOTH services.

4 and 5 stars are considered "blue chip recruits", particularly those in the Top 250.

Just...stop...what's next..."the 2 freshmen aren't even ranked as Top 175 players"?

If you include Rivals, 247 and ESPN - They went 1 for 6 in being ranked inside the Top 200 on any site With Brown's 193 on Rivals.

For perspective - Miami RB's that were rated higher include - Javaris James, Eduardo Clements, Kylan Robison, Lee Chambers...Beasts

When it comes to Miami RB recruits - these 2 recruiting rankings are definitely on the lower end.

So yes - let's stop the madness! I'm excited to see what they can do - but they're far from a given. Or do these 2 go in the "there's NO WAY you can question their talent" Chaney/Knighton group too?
 
Come on, dude, can't you be honest?

In 2021, we will have FIVE consensus (both services) 4-star running backs.

2019 - we only had FOUR running backs notch carries, all other rushers were QBs or WRs - Cam, Deejay, Bobby Burns...and JIMMY MURPHY
2018 - Homer, Deejay, Cam, Choc, 5-star Lingard, and Bobby Burns
2017 - Homer, Walton, Deejay, Choc
2016 - Walton, Yearby, Gus, Homer...and MARQUEZ WILLIAMS
2015 - Yearby, Walton, Choc...and WALTER TUCKER
2014 - Duke, Yearby, Gus, Choc...AND RONALD REGULA AND WALTER TUCKER
2013 - Duke, Dallas, Gus, Eduardo Clements...AND MAURICE HAGENS AND DEANDRE JOHNSON AND JAMESON LABADY
2012 - Mike James, Duke, Eduardo Clements, Dallas...AND MAURICE HAGENS AND DARRIS HUGHES
2011 - Lamar, Mike James, Eduardo Clements...AND MAURICE HAGENS
2010 - Damien Berry ("I'm not even supposed to be here today"), Lamar, Mike James, Coop, Storm, Eduardo Clements...AND PATRICK HILL
2009 - Coop, Javarris, Damien Berry, Lee Chambers, Mike James...AND JOHN CALHOUN
2008 - Coop, Javarris, Derron Thomas, Lee Chambers, Shawnbrey McNeal
2007 - Javarris, Coop, Derron Thomas, Shawnbrey McNeal...AND JERRELL MABRY
2006 - Javarris (4-star), Ty Moss (5-star/4-star), Charlie Jones (5-star/4-star), Derron Thomas (3-star), Andrew Johnson (4-star)

Yes, we can sit around and debate things like "actual production", but in the off-season, in THIS off-season, you cannot deny that this is the most talented (on paper, of course) backfield that we have had since 2006.

What they will accomplish, who knows.

Again, remind yourself what this thread was started for...to argue that we need to go out and get a Portal RB. But we are sitting on THOSE FIVE RUNNING BACKS, and only one has a minor shoulder injury.

Come on, now...

2021 - 5 4 Stars, Highest ranked is Knighton at #106
2010 - 6 4 Stars. Lamar Miller ranked #68, Storm Johnson ranked #40

Why is 2021 more talented on paper than 2010?
 
clown post.

RB room has a few guys that will get carries in the NFL.
I love your posts - but you just described the every Miami backfield since 2008.

In NFL Terms - A backfield with Duke & Gus is much different than a backfield with Javarris & Mike James
 
I've enjoyed the conversation, but I'll keep my response (relatively) brief.

When the DL gets penetration (which happens a lot, so that's my one shot at the OL), all of our RBs suffer, not just Cam. I think it impacts Cam more, as he gets more reps, he plays earlier in the game, and in 2020 it seemed he would never quite get untracked before Don or Jaylan were in for relief.

Again, I want to point out, I am not trying to make Cam out to be da gawd. I am just saying that he has experience and production, and that we shouldn't set our clothes on fire because Don has a minor shoulder issue. Yes, Cam can do certain things better, but I am pointing out that Lashlee could HELP HIM harness the things he does well by not trying to use him as a battering ram.

I'm not sure how the "60% to the right" stat means anything, as the playcalls are set in advance. As for the passing stuff, I was just focused on the rushing side of things. As for the "losing yards percentage" stuff, there is merit there, but I would also point out "small sample size" and the fact that Don/Rooster have come in once Cam has tenderized the DL a bit. It's still a relevant stat, I just think there are things that explain it better.

As for your RB comparatives, in some ways you kind of make my point for me (with Duke's stats). Duke was MUCH more productive going to the outside because he was a smaller, faster back. I would EXPECT him to get more YPC than a bigger/more physical back. In fact, the narrowest gap of the 5 years you provided was between Duke and Yearby, who were similar-style runners. Also (and I've mentioned this before) it is hard to do these comparisons when one runner is much more senior/experienced, or a different build, or they are getting the ball in very different situations. That's not a criticism of you, it's a reflection that these kids can be very different from freshmen to senior years, and we only have them for a few years. An interesting comparison would be between Edge and JJ when they were (almost) the same age in the same backfield. Anyhow, it's a minor quibble, not a huge issue.

Finally, I'll wrap up by reiterating that my point was never to say that Cam is the best and most talented back we've ever had, only that we should be fine if Don needs some extra time to heal, and that we don't need a JuCo transfer. And also, in spite of Cam's relative weaknesses, I don't think that Lashlee is calling the right running plays to take advantage of Cam's best traits.

That is all.
I definitely agree with you YPC can be skewed by a outside/speed guy vs an inside bruiser. Definitely plenty of backfields where that is the case. But trust me, pick any college backfield the better RB will have the higher YPC a majority of the time because they're just more efficient at what they do - whether that's running inside or outside.

But I think a lot of what you're saying makes sense and sounds like it could definitely be true - but it turns out it's not the case.

Losing Yards
Trust me - Cam lost yards in all games, in all quarters, in all situations, regardless of opponent. The LARGE majority for this is Cam himself.

Cam had as many carries for a loss (6) on his first 22 carries last year as the rest of the RB's did on 136 carries all year. Cam's 65 yds lost last year almost broke Javarris James record of 66 in 2007. JJ had 23 more carries though. What Cam did last year was pretty epic.

Example - here's carries for a loss by game last year. I don't think a full year is a small sample size.

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Losing yards 1 out of every 5 carries is a HUGE difference from losing yards 1 out of every 25


Cam Running to the Right
It's how he cuts - because that's his comfort zone. It's 3 years - not a small sample size. Under Richt, Enos, Lashlee - 3 different coordinators, but majority of his runs are always to the right not because of the play call, but because behind the line of scrimmage, 5, 10, 20 yds down the field - he feels comfortable going right. He's Cam Zoolander.

Duke 2014
While it sounds like Duke being much more efficient and getting most of his yards on outside runs is something that would be true - it's not.

Inside the Tackles - 930 Yds - 6.7 YPC
Outside the Tackles - 722 Yds - 6.9 YPC

Duke had more yards and was just as efficient running inside.
 
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I love your posts - but you just described the every Miami backfield since 2008.

In NFL Terms - A backfield with Duke & Gus is much different than a backfield with Javarris & Mike James

I mean, running back is not a position I'm going to justify or pound the table for. IMO, as long as you have some solid backs, you're fine.

Miami - just for example - whether they had NFL backs during most of the 2000s, ran near the bottom of college football in attempts most years. We had Duke and Gus Edwards and ran them 34 times a game...bottom 30 in the nation and we had a run game that was nationally like 50th or somewhere in the mid-tier. Javarris, Damien Berry, Mike James, and I think Graig Cooper in 2009 got 35 carries a game and were like 20 spots lower but still pretty mid-tier nationally. Last year we ran the ball 38 times a game and had ypa and ypg in the late 60s, early 70s. So, the difference, IMO, is negligible with that position. We're fine and adding a transfer RB won't help anything.
 
I mean, running back is not a position I'm going to justify or pound the table for. IMO, as long as you have some solid backs, you're fine.

Miami - just for example - whether they had NFL backs during most of the 2000s, ran near the bottom of college football in attempts most years. We had Duke and Gus Edwards and ran them 34 times a game...bottom 30 in the nation and we had a run game that was nationally like 50th or somewhere in the mid-tier. Javarris, Damien Berry, Mike James, and I think Graig Cooper in 2009 got 35 carries a game and were like 20 spots lower but still pretty mid-tier nationally. Last year we ran the ball 38 times a game and had ypa and ypg in the late 60s, early 70s. So, the difference, IMO, is negligible with that position. We're fine and adding a transfer RB won't help anything.

Yeah - I hear you. I think RB's can make much more of a difference at the college level where as it's much more minimal in the NFL.

I kind of take the National Rushing rankings with a grain of salt because it can be skewed so much on whether or not you have a rushing QB.

2014 - The RB's averaged 6.4 YPC. We were ranked 50th largely because of all the sacks Kaaya took brought our number down.
2020 - The RB's averaged 4.7 YPC. We were ranked 67th (not a big difference from 2014) but Kings rushing pulled us up.

I agree taking a RB transfer doesn't help because there's no o great RB out there. We'd just be duplicating what we already have.

But at the same time - I don't think it's crazy to have at least some worries about our RB room. I think Cam is solid but nothing special. I wanted to Chaney/Knighton to overtake him last year and it didn't happen. From what I saw in Spring, I think Knighton still hasn't done it (yet). Word is Chaney has, but I'd like to see it. I'm not really worried about his shoulder, but I also don't think it's nothing. Aside from the injury I'm wondering how it will affect his strength & conditioning if he's out most of Fall. And I think the 2 Freshman are more contributors down the line types vs immediate impact guys.

So I don't think a transfer does anything - but I'm also not that excited if we get in a situation where we're rolling with Cam as our starter again.
 
Yeah - I hear you. I think RB's can make much more of a difference at the college level where as it's much more minimal in the NFL.

I kind of take the National Rushing rankings with a grain of salt because it can be skewed so much on whether or not you have a rushing QB.

2014 - The RB's averaged 6.4 YPC. We were ranked 50th largely because of all the sacks Kaaya took brought our number down.
2020 - The RB's averaged 4.7 YPC. We were ranked 67th (not a big difference from 2014) but Kings rushing pulled us up.

I agree taking a RB transfer doesn't help because there's no o great RB out there. We'd just be duplicating what we already have.

But at the same time - I don't think it's crazy to have at least some worries about our RB room. I think Cam is solid but nothing special. I wanted to Chaney/Knighton to overtake him last year and it didn't happen. From what I saw in Spring, I think Knighton still hasn't done it (yet). Word is Chaney has, but I'd like to see it. I'm not really worried about his shoulder, but I also don't think it's nothing. Aside from the injury I'm wondering how it will affect his strength & conditioning if he's out most of Fall. And I think the 2 Freshman are more contributors down the line types vs immediate impact guys.

So I don't think a transfer does anything - but I'm also not that excited if we get in a situation where we're rolling with Cam as our starter again.

I don't think the RB room is great or anything. I think its fine though. I'm not sure its a stretch to say it has the potential to be the best in the ACC next year either. Not a spot where I'd seek another transfer (we kind of already have one in Brown). I'd rather allocate that transfer spot to another OL or an EDGE guy or a proper LB. A better, more mature, a year more with decent coaching on the OL means more for RB production than the actual stable itself...plus, I like the wildcards that Franklin and Brown can be. If they are real deal, they should be able to play right away and give us some quality snaps.
 
I don't think the RB room is great or anything. I think its fine though. I'm not sure its a stretch to say it has the potential to be the best in the ACC next year either. Not a spot where I'd seek another transfer (we kind of already have one in Brown). I'd rather allocate that transfer spot to another OL or an EDGE guy or a proper LB. A better, more mature, a year more with decent coaching on the OL means more for RB production than the actual stable itself...plus, I like the wildcards that Franklin and Brown can be. If they are real deal, they should be able to play right away and give us some quality snaps.

I agree transfers would be better used at other positions. We can definitely have the best RB's in the ACC. I just think having the 4th or 5th best is also a possibility, and sounds like people think that's crazy.

I also think Mike James was the last drafted RB that played here as a Senior - so that extra year of maturity might help Cam.

As for the Freshman - I think it's a longshot just from a practical/numbers standpoint. The most carries our 4th RB has gotten in the last 10 years is 30, and that was the season Duke got hurt. It's really hard to work in 4, especially when the OC says he'd prefer to ride with 1, and 5 just doesn't happen. If the Freshman get a good chunk of time it'll most likely be because of injuries and/or someone between Chaney/Cam/Knighton really regresses.
 
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Everything you wrote is wrong.

Bobby Burns is gone.

Alabama is not our only game. If you want some upperclass transfer JUST for Alabama, that's your insanity to own. There are 11 games after that, and our two freshmen can help us win those games in the same way that Chaney/Knighton helped us win games in 2020.

You quote 247...but where is the "three-man competition" that is "now down to two"? Is it the competition for Mayor of April? King of June? Last I checked, Chaney is still in the competition for the 2021 REGULAR SEASON.

"Blocking schemes that include TEs have not been practiced"? You mean, none of the injured TEs played or practiced last year? Good lord, you are FREAKING THE FVCK OUT over a dozen practices in March-April. What is wrong with you?

Butch always had a room full of RBs and used them all? Really? For instance, in 1998, how many yards did James Jackson or Najeh Davenport have against UCLA? How many rushes did they have during the season? Edge had 242 rushes to 82 for JJ and 55 for Najeh, and that was one of our most talented running back rooms EVER. But Edge was still the bell-cow, and by a wide margin. In 1999, there was more balance, Jackson had 169 rushes and Portis had 143 rushes, but in 2000 it went back to Jackson with 201 rushes and Portis with 77 rushes. So in 1998 and 2000, Miami's top rusher had 3x the carries of the #2 rusher.

As for Najeh...55 rushes in 1998, 13 rushes in 1999, and 65 rushes in 2000. And 23 in 2001. I mean, I love the guy, but he never got a ton of carries.

And look at our depth. In 1997, it was Edge and Jackson and...Dyral McMillan going 31 times for 144 yards. In 1998, we had Davenport, but Edge got twice as many carries as Jackson & Davenport combined. In 1999 we had balance, and in 2000 we had a dominant Jackson. With the exception of 1999, all the Butch years with Butch recruits at RB were dominated by one runner, even though the backups were incredibly talented.

Stop inventing 20-year-old myths about our running backs.
Look at the football roster on this site and Burns is still listed ala the ?
 
Look at the football roster on this site and Burns is still listed ala the ?


Yeah, you're right. The "football roster on this site" should be the ultimate source for all information...

Hey, is this link better? Is Burns on this roster?

 
Yeah, you're right. The "football roster on this site" should be the ultimate source for all information...

Hey, is this link better? Is Burns on this roster?

Much better, Thank You!
 
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