Proof and specifics of our improvement

[Ryanmilli]

I specifically said Richt 2016-18, not HOF UGA Richt, and it’s very relevant. So it’s of ur opinion that Mario Cristobal 2019-21 is not a better coach of the 2016-18 version of Mark Richt?

2016 Richt had 15 years of SEC head coaching experience. He didn’t exist in a vacuum. But I think I answered your question. His first two years at UM were unquestionably better than Mario’s. He won the coastal and was coach of the year at UM. So what’s the punchline?

 

[mcnaire2004]

2016 Richt had 15 years of SEC head coaching experience. He didn’t exist in a vacuum. But I think I answered your question. His first two years at UM were unquestionably better than Mario’s. He won the coastal and was coach of the year at UM. So what’s the punchline?

That Mario sucks

 

[HurricanePhilly]

I had hoped for 8-9 wins, no blow out losses and a good bowl win.

All still on the table. I also mentioned if all that happens this off season we could look back at a bunch of what ifs where we could have won 2-3 more games. Which we obviously know we can do.

Beat BC, win a solid bowl game, close out this recruiting class, fill some roster spots with the portal and I think the way things are trending if we trying to be positive we should be a 10 win/Acc champ game/potential top 12 team. I also think if we don’t get in that ball park and only win 8ish next year then the criticisms are more than fair.

But after 20 years, I am being the most cautiously optimistic I’ve ever been (and I usually try to be the biggest Homer but many times know we were overrated) but also realizing that instead of trying to quick fix one thing that potentially creates 2-3 other issues it feels like we are building stability. We live in a “win now” era so I get the panic but I think this time next year for the first time in a long time we will see it finally coming together and may just finally truly be back. With an alum leading the way

 

[SFbayCane]

That's the crazy part though. We don't even need (with supposed bro ball this season) GREAT QB play. We just need our QB not to turn the ball over right and left. We simply need a accurate QB who has the arm to stretch the field. Even this season if we cut the turn overs in half we have atleast two more wins right now. Look how many turn overs we had in the red zone. Not many of them were from fumbles. It was picks. Eliminate that and we're Gucci. I get that people see me arguing for Mario and assume I'm all for everything exactly how we're doing it. I'm not. I'd love to see us chunking the ball all around the field & for people to perceive us as the most exciting TEAM in the country. But you gotta be able to adapt to what you got. Just like we all want Mario to. Myself no concerns.

I see you fighting the good fight in this thread and I support that. However, in this post above you dont realize that you're pointing out yet another of Mario's failures. Emory Williams did pretty much what you describe above, yet the caveman went right back to the turnover machine as soon as he could hobble back onto the field against UVA.

Many of us here were screaming for Emory to get the start against UVA. If he did, maybe, juuuust maybe he's have gotten enough rhythm with the wide receivers to finish off FSU. (keep in mind that Emory was driving the team down for the tying score at the end of that game). This is yet another of Mario's failures. He simply does not possess the critical thinking skills to be a competent gameday coach.

I wandered upon the highlight video of the 2017 Miami- Notre Dame game. ND was a top five team with a high level QB playing on the road and Brian Kelly pulled him for a couple series right before half. I was screaming in the stadium for Mario to do with before half in the Ga Tech game. Mario never even considered it.

 

[Rellyrell]

2016 Richt had 15 years of SEC head coaching experience. He didn’t exist in a vacuum. But I think I answered your question. His first two years at UM were unquestionably better than Mario’s. He won the coastal and was coach of the year at UM. So what’s the punchline?

No, u’re using a lot of fillers vs. answering yes or no. The 15 yrs of experience is a moot point, b/c

-UGA was trying to fire him for 3 straight seasons
-By the time he came here, he was a complete shell of his former self due to health reason.

Nevertheless, this is a quote u made:

“Some people seem strangely oblivious to the state of the program that Mario inherited despite having witnessed it unraveling for 20+ years. They're looking only at the tip of the iceberg. For a long time we have been miles away from the Alabama's and OSU's of the world in every possible respect. Not even close. Our program infrastructure was ostensibly a joke compared to what is occurring at big time programs”

That’s an interesting statement; it’s one that I, myself, once used to support & justify Mario’s 1st season. However, here’s why that’s a strawman’s argument, in particular to this current situation:

1. We’re not competing against The Bama’s & OSU’s of the world; we’re competing against The Pitt’s, UNC’s, UVA’s, VA Tech’s, GT’s, & Duke’s of the world, so a moot point.

2. The deterioration of this program has been, in large part, to ****** coaching hires. I won’t criticize the Coker hire, too, much, b/c a lot of teams tend to hire in-house from a successful coach’s branch for continuity. HOWEVER, every coaching hire thereafter could absolutely be ridiculed and criticized. We’ve had the talent to not only compete in the ACC, but dominate the Coastal.

3. Mark Richt proves this conjecture is bull ****. He had to come behind both Randy Shannon, AND a mid-season fired Al Golden’s squad, but was IMMEDIATELY successful as a washed up coach past his prime.

4. Despite 20 yrs of futility, The University of Miami produced just as many NFL draft picks from 2018-2021 as Mario Cristobal did, which meant the rhetoric was, we didn’t have a talent issue, but rather a coaching and development issue. Hence, this is why we through a bag at Mario

At this point, there’s literally no viable excuse available to reason what’s transpiring. Mario has been given absolutely everything he’s asked for, so what’s the point of bringing up 20 years, when he’s been underperforming:

Shannon: 12-11 after 23 games
Golden: 12-11 after 23 games
Richt: 19-4 after 23 games
Diaz: 14-9 after 23 games
Cristobal: 11-12 after 23 games

It’s unfathomable that a coach, where our entire boosters have put their financial weight behind, struggle this mightily compared to a group of guys who didn’t remotely get the same support. Richt completely blows the 20 yr excuse out of the water.

 

[mcnaire2004]

No, u’re using a lot of fillers vs. answering yes or no. The 15 yrs of experience is a moot point, b/c

-UGA was trying to fire him for 3 straight seasons
-By the time he came here, he was a complete shell of his former self due to health reason.

Nevertheless, this is a quote u made:

“Some people seem strangely oblivious to the state of the program that Mario inherited despite having witnessed it unraveling for 20+ years. They're looking only at the tip of the iceberg. For a long time we have been miles away from the Alabama's and OSU's of the world in every possible respect. Not even close. Our program infrastructure was ostensibly a joke compared to what is occurring at big time programs”

That’s an interesting statement; it’s one that I, myself, once used to support & justify Mario’s 1st season. However, here’s why that’s a strawman’s argument, in particular to this current situation:

1. We’re not competing against The Bama’s & OSU’s of the world; we’re competing against The Pitt’s, UNC’s, UVA’s, VA Tech’s, GT’s, & Duke’s of the world, so a moot point.

2. The deterioration of this program has been, in large part, to ****** coaching hires. I won’t criticize the Coker hire, too, much, b/c a lot of teams tend to hire in-house from a successful coach’s branch for continuity. HOWEVER, every coaching hire thereafter could absolutely be ridiculed and criticized. We’ve had the talent to not only compete in the ACC, but dominate the Coastal.

3. Mark Richt proves this conjecture is bull ****. He had to come behind both Randy Shannon, AND a mid-season fired Al Golden’s squad, and IMMEDIATELY was successful as a washed up coach past his prime.

4. Despite 20 yrs of futility, The University of Miami produced just as many NFL draft picks from 2018-2021 as Mario Cristobal did, which meant the rhetoric was, we didn’t have a talent issue, but rather a coaching and development issue. Hence, this is why we through a bag at Mario

At this point, there’s literally no viable excuse available to reason what’s transpiring. Mario has been given absolutely everything he’s asked for, so what’s the point of bringing up 20 years, when he’s been underperforming:

Shannon: 12-11 after 23 games
Golden: 12-11 after 23 games
Richt: 19-4 after 23 games
Diaz: 14-9 after 23 games
Cristobal: 11-12 after 23 games

It’s unfathomable that a coach, where our entire boosters have put their financial weight behind, struggle this mightily compared to a group of guys who didn’t remotely get the same support. Richt completely blows the 20 yr excuse out of the water.

 

[DC3]

There’s not much I can take from this season that’s positive. The GT abortion and the swoon that started afterward just put a huge damper on it all Yes the culture is better , guys didn’t quit and there’s accountability by the players but the issues with the scheme / game day coaching left a bad taste in my mouth. Game day coaching has to take another step.

That’s kind of where i’m at. We know there are improvements in off the field programs, facilities, and culture that are building blocks for Miami going forward.

Im going to wait and see what additions and subtractions happen from the roster and staff as there are a ton of holes that need to be filled before I’m going to be thinking anything other than 8 or 9 wins next year is a reality. Wish I had the optimism of some guys saying 10+ minimum but just skeptical on the game day side of things for now.

 

[PIPO]

View attachment 267375

 

[MiamiBusiness]

People cite the culture improvement under Mario. Maybe that is true. Hard to quantify culture improvement from the outside, especially when the team is constantly making dumb and undisciplined mistakes.

I agree the 2023 team has not quit on Mario. But the 2021 team did not quit on Manny — curious how that happened if the culture was as bad as people say.

 

[ddann]

I wandered upon the highlight video of the 2017 Miami- Notre Dame game. ND was a top five team with a high level QB playing on the road and Brian Kelly pulled him for a couple series right before half. I was screaming in the stadium for Mario to do with before half in the Ga Tech game. Mario never even considered it.

I mean, I agree with your point here. But I’m just not sure Brian Kelly’s decision in that particular game is the right way to illustrate it.

 

[E1k]

People cite the culture improvement under Mario. Maybe that is true. Hard to quantify culture improvement from the outside, especially when the team is constantly making dumb and undisciplined mistakes.

I agree the 2023 team has not quit on Mario. But the 2021 team did not quit on Manny — curious how that happened if the culture was as bad as people say.

Manny 2021 team got better as the year went on with a first time college starter at qb. Mario team got worse both years..They didn’t quit on manny when everyone knew he was cooked.

All that other **** is just bs. Mfs talk like u cant improve the culture and all the other off the field stuff while still winning games they think u gotta choose and thats just bs. Improve on the field and mfs will not be on here complaining, all these narratives and excuses aren’t needed for top coaches

 

[ddann]

It’s unfathomable that a coach, where our entire boosters have put their financial weight behind, struggle this mightily compared to a group of guys who didn’t remotely get the same support. Richt completely blows the 20 yr excuse out of the water.

This is the thing that bothers me. After seeing the failures of Shannon, Golden, and Diaz and comparing that to the success that Richt had, I said all Miami needs is a proven P5 head coach and everything will be okay.

Well, Miami finally hired another proven P5 head coach in Mario. But everything is NOT okay.

 

[mcnaire2004]

This is the thing that bothers me. After seeing the failures of Shannon, Golden, and Diaz and comparing that to the success that Rcht had, I said all Miami needs is a proven P5 head coach and everything will be okay.

Well, Miami finally hired another proven P5 head coach in Mario. But everything is NOT okay.

I think the jury was out on Mario being proven. A career .500 coach isn't proven.

A competent head coach with experience is what we want.

 

[grover]

I see you fighting the good fight in this thread and I support that. However, in this post above you dont realize that you're pointing out yet another of Mario's failures. Emory Williams did pretty much what you describe above, yet the caveman went right back to the turnover machine as soon as he could hobble back onto the field against UVA.

Many of us here were screaming for Emory to get the start against UVA. If he did, maybe, juuuust maybe he's have gotten enough rhythm with the wide receivers to finish off FSU. (keep in mind that Emory was driving the team down for the tying score at the end of that game). This is yet another of Mario's failures. He simply does not possess the critical thinking skills to be a competent gameday coach.

I wandered upon the highlight video of the 2017 Miami- Notre Dame game. ND was a top five team with a high level QB playing on the road and Brian Kelly pulled him for a couple series right before half. I was screaming in the stadium for Mario to do with before half in the Ga Tech game. Mario never even considered it.

I think coaches felt Emory was even more risky and limited than TVD. Jake Garcia vibes.

 

[Brooklyndee]

I see you fighting the good fight in this thread and I support that. However, in this post above you dont realize that you're pointing out yet another of Mario's failures. Emory Williams did pretty much what you describe above, yet the caveman went right back to the turnover machine as soon as he could hobble back onto the field against UVA.

Many of us here were screaming for Emory to get the start against UVA. If he did, maybe, juuuust maybe he's have gotten enough rhythm with the wide receivers to finish off FSU. (keep in mind that Emory was driving the team down for the tying score at the end of that game). This is yet another of Mario's failures. He simply does not possess the critical thinking skills to be a competent gameday coach.

I wandered upon the highlight video of the 2017 Miami- Notre Dame game. ND was a top five team with a high level QB playing on the road and Brian Kelly pulled him for a couple series right before half. I was screaming in the stadium for Mario to do with before half in the Ga Tech game. Mario never even considered it.

That's just not true. When I say half the turn overs I don't also mean 3/4 less throws. Let's not change around reality here. Emory wasn't turning the ball over absolutely not. BUT HE WAS ALSO NOWHERE NEAR ACCURATE. The vast majority of his yards came on two throws and one of them was simply a horrible play by the DB. Emory was missing throws all game. He's just not there yet. That's not to say he won't eventually be. But let's be realistic. All that he was driving ehh he literally broke his arm on a desperate fourth down attempt cause he wasn't capable of making some basic throws all night. What I said is we need an accurate QB who can get the ball into the hands of our playmakers. That doesn't mean we should throw the ball far less in an attempt to limit turnovers. It means we keep at what we wanna do by spreading the ball around at all levels of the field and keeping from turning the ball over.

 

[PIPO]

I’ll just say this:

The two teams in the ACC Championship game:

1) Used the Transfer Portal big time - more than Miami. Bring in talent to compete with the talent on the team.

2) Scheme and Talent - We have a lot of talent and we just don’t have a scheme on offense to keep up with other teams in the ACC.

3) If Mario doesn’t figure this out next year with winning on the field (because that is what matters), well, fill in here (__________) what it means moving for the program moving forward.

 

[Cribby]

I’ll just say this:

The two teams in the ACC Championship game:

1) Used the Transfer Portal big time - more than Miami. Bring in talent to compete with the talent on the team.

2) Scheme and Talent - We have a lot of talent and we just don’t have a scheme on offense to keep up with other teams in the ACC.

3) If Mario doesn’t figure this out next year with winning on the field (because that is what matters), well, fill in here (__________) what it means moving for the program moving forward.

The amount of runs up the middle that were wasted plays this year is mind blowing. I’m ok with runs up the middle but that’s after you loosen a team up with body shots horizontally. Constant pressure outside causing ends to hesitate instead of just crashing down with no remorse. Why we continue to beat our heads into a cement wall is crazy. Keeping the D off balance is the key to offense yet we must just move you. Even if outnumbered. Continually running into a loaded box with the same predictable plays is insanity.

Mario might just be more hardheaded than I originally thought. Maybe he wakes up.

 

[cway313]

I’ll just say this:

The two teams in the ACC Championship game:

1) Used the Transfer Portal big time - more than Miami. Bring in talent to compete with the talent on the team.

2) Scheme and Talent - We have a lot of talent and we just don’t have a scheme on offense to keep up with other teams in the ACC.

3) If Mario doesn’t figure this out next year with winning on the field (because that is what matters), well, fill in here (__________) what it means moving for the program moving forward.

You can't expect to get better by liking the starters you have. I know D$ is not on staff but that mentality is why we have been *** for 2 decades. They liked the QB room this year and did nothing to create competition. Now they supposedly like the cornerback room. You don't get better being complacent and until that mentality is removed we will hover around .500 more often then not.

If they havent learned in year 3 that injuries occur and players regress then idk that they ever will. They should be stocking the roster with as much talent at all positions they ca not nitpicking and choosing areas of greatest need. "Failure to plan is planning to fail."

 

[Brooklyndee]

The amount of runs up the middle that were wasted plays this year is mind blowing. I’m ok with runs up the middle but that’s after you loosen a team up with body shots horizontally. Constant pressure outside causing ends to hesitate instead of just crashing down with no remorse. Why we continue to beat our heads into a cement wall is crazy. Keeping the D off balance is the key to offense yet we must just move you. Even if outnumbered. Continually running into a loaded box with the same predictable plays is insanity.

Mario might just be more hardheaded than I originally thought. Maybe he wakes up.

Question brother(Happy turkey day to you and yours first off)just sticking to the Louisville game here because that's what's fresh on my mind, out of the 6 plays I noticed that were runs up the middle how many of those did you notice the line was pulling? Anotherwords play was called to go off tackle... I noticed that three times. I don't agree with run plays in general being forced into a loaded front.
This team is built to establish the pass to set up the run. Not the other way around. But I really hate the A gap runs. The strength (literally)of our oline right now is at the tackle positions. We should embrace that more, especially if you're choosing to go max protect. Than you're essentially eliminating the whole purpose of bringing them on as added blockers if you just run behind the center or the guards... Those dudes are great in pass protection but not as physical yet as we need to see. For me anez regressed in certain aspects of his game this season. He came here loving physicality. Kid had zero quit in him. A few times this season I've seen he's been a serious liability. Hope he fixes that this offseason as I know we've talked with him about that.

 

[TemplarCane]

That's just not true. When I say half the turn overs I don't also mean 3/4 less throws. Let's not change around reality here. Emory wasn't turning the ball over absolutely not. BUT HE WAS ALSO NOWHERE NEAR ACCURATE. The vast majority of his yards came on two throws and one of them was simply a horrible play by the DB. Emory was missing throws all game. He's just not there yet. That's not to say he won't eventually be. But let's be realistic. All that he was driving ehh he literally broke his arm on a desperate fourth down attempt cause he wasn't capable of making some basic throws all night. What I said is we need an accurate QB who can get the ball into the hands of our playmakers. That doesn't mean we should throw the ball far less in an attempt to limit turnovers. It means we keep at what we wanna do by spreading the ball around at all levels of the field and keeping from turning the ball over.

100%.

My main criticism of Mario this season is not having a viable backup for TVD. Brown has issues with his throwing mechanics and Williams an incoming freshman. I’m sure he tried to bring in someone from the portal but it didn’t happen. They weren’t likely to land a top portal QB, that type is going to want to start, not compete. Plus the OC was still a question mark, IIRC. All of that is on the man in charge.

With a viable backup who can throw with accuracy and manage a game, like you say, we’re Gucci.

Happy Thanksgiving.