Post 2001 Linebacker Tradition

[SotaCanespiracy]

Morgan, webster, campbell, vilma, DJ, mcintosh, beason, mccarthy, spence, perryman. Randy recognized LBs, for all the heat he took for Cook and R. Davis, that was about practice habits, not evals. Dorito actually recruited the spot okay. Jackson and Paul were good also, and

That’s true. ESPN had an article recently about the shift in philosophy at the linebacker position. Jimmy Johnson was moving 215 lb safeties to linebacker 30 years ago

That's the thing about it the guys I listed in the op didn't come in as 210 pound former safeties. Those 2000 linebackers were all blue chip guys that had height, weight, and speed. We're still waiting to get Huff on the field and he's been here 3 years

 

[SotaCanespiracy]

I think there really is no Miami defense without our linebackers. We've had great safeties, D linemen, and corners but man o man the linebackers are the ones I remember the most. How we're where we are now I have no idea. There's absolutely no excuse to be trotting out what we had at lb last year and again this year. Wake the **** up Manny, there is no real Miami D without serious heat at LB. How he's not all in on fixing that position I dunno.

I think this is true. None of our linebackers in the last 5 years have been in the mold of the guys listed in the op.

 

[V-DawgCane]

Eddie Johnson and Perryman were both good as well. Under the Manny era the LB play has been atrocious.

 

[The Sphinx]

The year we took Steed was weird for LB evaluations (2017 class) Top 6 ranked OLB's are as follows:
1. Baron Browning drafted in the 3rd round (bad for a player ranked top 10 overall)
2. Dylan Moses undrafted from Bama.
3. Willie *** Jr drafted late 2nd round which is good eval
4. VanDarius Cowan ended up transferring from Bama, still could be good but has problems getting on the field between injuries and misconduct.
5. Drew Singleton has started 3 games between his JR/SR year, after transferring from Michigan to Rutgers
6. Levi Jones ended up transferring from USC to NCST. JAG
7. Markail Benton ended up transferring from Bama to Deion Sander's squad.

If you notice, 3 backers from Bama, all in the top 7 of OLB's of the nation, and the best one, who some called a generational talent at one point, just went undrafted. Stars aren't going to help us. We just need to stop trying to convert so many tweeners into 4-3 LB's, or change-up how we're coaching those guys.

Good point about the tweener issues. We love trying to transform high school DEs into college LBs. But look at our 5-year LB recruiting results after we signed the Freshman Trio in 2016:

2017 - Wilder, Steed and Jennings
2018 - No LBs signed
2019 - Huff and Brooks
2020 - Cave and Flagg
2021 - Johnson, Troutman and Davis (though he'll probably play DE)

Now that's just not anywhere near an elite haul. Some very unfortunate instances of injuries, but that's just not good LB recruiting the way we need it. And then not taking a LB in 2018 was bad. Loved Shaq and Pink, but they never ever had to fear for their jobs.

We've got to do much better.

 

[SotaCanespiracy]

The year we took Steed was weird for LB evaluations (2017 class) Top 6 ranked OLB's are as follows:
1. Baron Browning drafted in the 3rd round (bad for a player ranked top 10 overall)
2. Dylan Moses undrafted from Bama.
3. Willie *** Jr drafted late 2nd round which is good eval
4. VanDarius Cowan ended up transferring from Bama, still could be good but has problems getting on the field between injuries and misconduct.
5. Drew Singleton has started 3 games between his JR/SR year, after transferring from Michigan to Rutgers
6. Levi Jones ended up transferring from USC to NCST. JAG
7. Markail Benton ended up transferring from Bama to Deion Sander's squad.

If you notice, 3 backers from Bama, all in the top 7 of OLB's of the nation, and the best one, who some called a generational talent at one point, just went undrafted. Stars aren't going to help us. We just need to stop trying to convert so many tweeners into 4-3 LB's, or change-up how we're coaching those guys.

Love this break down. I think the key is to identify a height, weight, and speed you're comfortable with and recruit that no matter location or ranking. Tulsa, and Kentucky just put low 3 stars into the first round of the draft. The guys are out there, we just may have to leave the state.

 

[DTP]

That's the thing about it the guys I listed in the op didn't come in as 210 pound former safeties. Those 2000 linebackers were all blue chip guys that had height, weight, and speed. We're still waiting to get Huff on the field and he's been here 3 years.

Jon Beason played safety in high school.

 

[DTP]

Good point about the tweener issues. We love trying to transform high school DEs into college LBs. But look at our 5-year LB recruiting results after we signed the Freshman Trio in 2016:

2017 - Wilder, Steed and Jennings
2018 - No LBs signed
2019 - Huff and Brooks
2020 - Cave and Flagg
2021 - Johnson, Troutman and Davis (though he'll probably play DE)

Now that's just not anywhere near an elite haul. Some very unfortunate instances of injuries, but that's just not good LB recruiting the way we need it. And then not taking a LB in 2018 was bad. Loved Shaq and Pink, but they never ever hadtho fear for their jobs.

We've got to do much better.

This is the real reason linebacker play was so bad last year. Wilder, Jennings and Steed have been a combination of injured and ineffective. Huff and Brooks were high school defensive ends who's game hasn't translated to off the ball linebacker. Signing nobody in 2018 really hurt the overall depth. This is one that I put squarely on Manny.

 

[Gooner#44]

Jon Beason played safety in high school.

He was listed as a safety here on the 2003 roster

 

[Rellyrell]

I was trying to find a game where we got ran over in back to back seasons and I couldn’t find one.
Besides, my original point was that we didn’t shut down Georgia Tech when Spence was here. At least not consistently. ****, one of the good games we had against them was under Dorito.

When u say ran over, are u referring to strictly rushing yards or the combination of offense?

 

[The Sphinx]

This is the real reason linebacker play was so bad last year. Wilder, Jennings and Steed have been a combination of injured and ineffective. Huff and Brooks were high school defensive ends who's game hasn't translated to off the ball linebacker. Signing nobody in 2018 really hurt the overall depth. This is one that I put squarely on Manny.

Exactly. It's like Manny went into cruise control with LB recruiting after 2016. Steed and Wilder getting hurt and not being Day 1 contributors hurt, but then add insult to injury and not bringing in any LBs in 2018 was asinine. Follow that up with grabbing converted DEs in 2019 who are still trying to learn the position and then in 2020 grabbing two guys who by Miami standards should be backups and you have the &hit show at LB we have today.

That's all on Manny.

 

[SotaCanespiracy]

He played running back to. My point was he was projected as college linebacker

Jon Beason played safety in high school.

 

[Jassid82]

The year we took Steed was weird for LB evaluations (2017 class) Top 7 ranked OLB's are as follows:
1. Baron Browning drafted in the 3rd round (bad for a player ranked top 10 overall)
2. Dylan Moses undrafted from Bama.
3. Willie *** Jr drafted late 2nd round which is good eval
4. VanDarius Cowan ended up transferring from Bama, still could be good but has problems getting on the field between injuries and misconduct.
5. Drew Singleton has started 3 games between his JR/SR year, after transferring from Michigan to Rutgers
6. Levi Jones ended up transferring from USC to NCST. JAG
7. Markail Benton ended up transferring from Bama to Deion Sander's squad.

If you notice, 3 backers from Bama, all in the top 7 of OLB's of the nation, and the best one, who some called a generational talent at one point, just went undrafted. Stars aren't going to help us. We just need to stop trying to convert so many tweeners into 4-3 LB's, or change-up how we're coaching those guys.

Well ****. Talk about laying the facts out there. Sheesh. Thats a pretty pathetic list there. And I was shocked Dylan Moses went undrafted.

 

[SotaCanespiracy]

He was listed as a safety here on the 2003 roster

I stand corrected

 

[Jassid82]

Good point about the tweener issues. We love trying to transform high school DEs into college LBs. But look at our 5-year LB recruiting results after we signed the Freshman Trio in 2016:

2017 - Wilder, Steed and Jennings
2018 - No LBs signed
2019 - Huff and Brooks
2020 - Cave and Flagg
2021 - Johnson, Troutman and Davis (though he'll probably play DE)

Now that's just not anywhere near an elite haul. Some very unfortunate instances of injuries, but that's just not good LB recruiting the way we need it. And then not taking a LB in 2018 was bad. Loved Shaq and Pink, but they never ever had to fear for their jobs.

We've got to do much better.

That 2017 class coupled with Brooks getting injured in HS and not being ready to play Day 1 has really hurt us. I dont think anyone projected Huff to take this long to get it in gear either. We have just had bad luck. When you take a look at it..those were some good evals at the time.

The only person who really doesnt belong would MAYBE be Flagg. (who I really liked out of HS but the board is split on him as a player) The board loved everyone else out of HS including BJ Jennings who many thought would take Shaqs spot as the thumper of the LB core.

 

[DTP]

He played running back to. My point was he was projected as college linebacker

Dan Morgan was also a high school running back.

Beason was listed as a safety his freshman year as @Gooner#44 pointed out earlier. The funny thing is, the rest of college football is just now starting to get totally away from the inside the box, two down linebackers who could stuff the run but struggled in space. Th hybrid safety/linebacker is now becoming the regular. Guys who are 6'2"-6'3" 210-220 are now commonplace. Some teams may still use the old 240 lb plugger, especially inside but more offenses are spreading out and operating at a faster pace so defenses need to counter that with more dynamic and versatile players. The no huddle has made substitution a challenge so teams don't want to get stuck with "run defenders" on the field when the opponent starts throwing it around with no way to sub in the pass defense package.

 

[Gooner#44]

Dan Morgan was also a high school running back.

Beason was listed as a safety his freshman year as @Gooner#44 pointed out earlier. The funny thing is, the rest of college football is just now starting to get totally away from the inside the box, two down linebackers who could stuff the run but struggled in space. Th hybrid safety/linebacker is now becoming the regular. Guys who are 6'2"-6'3" 210-220 are now commonplace. Some teams may still use the old 240 lb plugger, especially inside but more offenses are spreading out and operating at a faster pace so defenses need to counter that with more dynamic and versatile players. The no huddle has made substitution a challenge so teams don't want to get stuck with "run defenders" on the field when the opponent starts throwing it around with no way to sub in the pass defense package.

I like the idea of a "plugger" as you say (Perryman/CMac type) and then a fast athletic striker (I actually thought Romeo Finley was good here, and Smith looks to be good) both in the lineup.

 

[DTP]

When u say ran over, are u referring to strictly rushing yards or the combination of offense?

The original comparison was to Georgia Tech so I was strictly talking about stopping the run.

 

[DTP]

I like the idea of a "plugger" as you say (Perryman/CMac type) and then a fast athletic striker (I actually thought Romeo Finley was good here, and Smith looks to be good) both in the lineup.

I do still like having a guy who can stack and shed blockers and make plays in the hole. I think Shaq Quarterman was vastly underrated in that aspect. The thing is, if you’re going to be slow, you better be smart and instinctual.

 

[The Sphinx]

Dan Morgan was also a high school running back.

Beason was listed as a safety his freshman year as @Gooner#44 pointed out earlier. The funny thing is, the rest of college football is just now starting to get totally away from the inside the box, two down linebackers who could stuff the run but struggled in space. Th hybrid safety/linebacker is now becoming the regular. Guys who are 6'2"-6'3" 210-220 are now commonplace. Some teams may still use the old 240 lb plugger, especially inside but more offenses are spreading out and operating at a faster pace so defenses need to counter that with more dynamic and versatile players. The no huddle has made substitution a challenge so teams don't want to get stuck with "run defenders" on the field when the opponent starts throwing it around with no way to sub in the pass defense package.

Nirvana is having a big do-it-all MLB like the horse at LSU who single-handedly pushed our &hit in a few years ago (I forget his name). Dude was 250 pounds all over the **** field virtually unblockable. But since those guys don't grow on trees, you're better off with a 230 pound guy who can run, change directions quickly and attack the ball carrier in space.

Little need for true thumpers in today's game.

 

[Gooner#44]

Nirvana is having a big do-it-all MLB like the horse at LSU who single-handedly pushed our &hit in a few years ago (I forget his name). Dude was 250 pounds all over the **** field virtually unblockable. But since those guys don't grow on trees, you're better off with a 230 pound guy who can run, change directions quickly and attack the ball carrier in space.

Little need for true thumpers in today's game.

Devin White