Perspective on going from competitive to Elite: Clemson's Rise to Dominance

Blake James and the UM BOT have no interest in doing what it takes to become elite. Sure. Theyd love to get there, but they're perfectly content with the occasional 10 win season and competing for Coastal titles.

Becoming elite in today's cfb is about more than just scheme. It's a program wide mentality and buy in.
 
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Excellent post. The key game on there is the 51-13 home loss to FSU in 2013. Their fanbase probably thought they were miles away from the championship level. In reality, they were only a couple years away. And that's with a 2014 season that felt like a step back in every respect.

Beat the bad and mediocre teams consistently. Play fun football. Recruit like crazy. It's not a straight line if you want to play with the big boys. It's a process and a journey, even if you're doing right.
 
2019LSU---BurrowCFP
2018Clemson---LawrenceCFP
2017Alabama---TuaCFP
2016Clemson---WatsonCFP
2015AlabamaCFP
2014Ohio State---JonesCFP
2013Florida State ---WinstonBCS
2012AlabamaBCS
2011AlabamaBCS
2010Auburn---NewtonBCS

Outside of Bama, this decade it's been pretty much impossible to win without dominant QB play.

Y'all are saying "outside of 'Bama" like they haven't won 40% of the national titles the last decade. Reaching the conclusion that you need a 1st round QB based on this data is a logical fallacy. Also, Hurts took the majority of snaps at QB for 'Bama in 2017.

While I appreciate the sentiment of the post in general, the notion of "needing" a 1st round QB is shaky, at best.
 
I lived in SC during Dabo's early years at Clemson, and I can tell you for a fact that their fan bases "mopes" much like ours were calling for his head after the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years. Their reasoning, he was only winning the games they should, but not beating the big dogs and more importantly their main rival, USC. Lucky for all of them, their leadership knew better and kept him around and let him actually build his program, and what do you know.............how are they doing again?!?!
 
A good qb is needed but those first rounders may have had their pro careers ended behind our OL last year. The other pieces need to be in place also
 
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Manny can succeed without Baker getting demonstrably better. Now it may not be enough to win CFP, but offense will be more determinant of Manny’s success than defense will.
ACC schedule I agree with this. But If we want to take the next step we need to win one or two big ooc games. Those games will come down to defense imo
 
good write up. onyl thing id say is that we need to stop thinking 10-4 isnt good by our standards. weve done 10 wins once in forever now. we need to get back to just getting to 10 wins regularly and players and the elite (the ones who want to stay home will have a reason to) will start to come around and thats when you then take the next step. also, will require staff continuity. We need to keep our coordinators (if they are successful) around which was key in how dabo has built his empire. he rarely loses a key assistant in his time
 
ACC schedule I agree with this. But If we want to take the next step we need to win one or two big ooc games. Those games will come down to defense imo

if the O is elite then any defense that holds other Os within the 20s or less on average will be more than enough to win it all esp in todays CFB. no one is shuttign anyone else down anymore.
 
Another example would be Jimbo Fisher at FSU.

His first year, he went 10-4 and finished 17th. They got annihilated by Oklahoma and dropped winnable games to UNC, NC St. and VT. The next season, they went 9-4 with losses to OU, Clemson, Wake and UVA (no victories over ranked opponents).

His third season was the step forward, as they went 12-2 and won the ACC. But they got handled by Florida and most fans felt they couldn't get over the hump against the real competition. His fourth season, they went undefeated and won the title.

Manny is a year behind schedule because his first season was such an embarrassment. He's given us little reason to believe he's following this path. But these examples are important in setting realistic benchmarks for progress.
 
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if the O is elite then any defense that holds other Os within the 20s or less on average will be more than enough to win it all esp in todays CFB. no one is shuttign anyone else down anymore.
We are not slowing down any competent offense. Period. It’s not happening with baker, Diaz, and this staff. Bama next year, UF in a few years, A&M as well.
 
I've tried using Clemson as an example a few times. Dabo had to beat South Carolina that first year. That's what got him the job. They made the leap hiring Venables away from Oklahoma, and he got paid, more than any coordinator at the time, if I remember right. I'm surrounded by Clemson and USCe fans, and been to a couple of the Miami games at Clemson. Getting Venables and then hitting on Watson, then Lawrence, along with the SEC model of recruiting salaries has put them where they are. I think this is a case of being patient, and letting him learn how to be a HC. Saban **** the bed more than a few times before he got to LSU, and even there he did as well. Patience is hard when it's your team though.
 
We are not shutting down any competent offense. Period. It’s not happening with baker, Diaz, and this staff. Bama next year, UF in a few years, A&M as well.

thats the norm with most of CFB (even bama isnt shutting people down anymore). waht im saying is that the way to gauge a D in todays game is to basically limit their point totals. idgaf about yards and depending on the style of O you play, youre bound to give up yards. if we can hold other teams to 14, 19, etc. more often than not, were going to win a ton of games.
 
thats the norm with most of CFB (even bama isnt shutting people down anymore). waht im saying is that the way to gauge a D in todays game is to basically limit their point totals. idgaf about yards and depending on the style of O you play, youre bound to give up yards. if we can hold other teams to 14, 19, etc. more often than not, were going to win a ton of games.
You have to get critical stops or turnovers. For two years we have proven to not be able to do that under baker. Bama shut down Georgia in 2nd half. There is no such thing as shutting competent offenses down for 4quarters in today’s game but getting crucial stops/turnovers is where games are won. As of this moment I’m not confident in that regard moving forward defensively
 
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Y'all are saying "outside of 'Bama" like they haven't won 40% of the national titles the last decade. Reaching the conclusion that you need a 1st round QB based on this data is a logical fallacy. Also, Hurts took the majority of snaps at QB for 'Bama in 2017.

While I appreciate the sentiment of the post in general, the notion of "needing" a 1st round QB is shaky, at best.

They lose the championship without Tua in 2017.

It's actually the polar opposite of your conclusion. It shows that a vast majority of time it takes a 1st round, game changing QB to get through Alabama's overwhelming overall talent advantage.

Saban has brought in the #1 recruiting class in the country 90% of the years he's been there. The only teams that have won other than his team are ones that have mega talented players under center.
 
What I mean when I say get rid of baker is manny hire someone that runs an entire different scheme and let him focus on being a HC. Gut the entire staff unless new coordinator wants to keep a coach or two
Until the defense flat out costs us a game while loaded with elite recruits I'm not going to harp on the scheme and what Baker does. We have done fine on defense this season, especially considering our poor LB play. All coaches are going to make mistakes or get caught with their pants down from time to time. We did a better job defending UVA than Clemson with less talent at CB, LB, and DL.
 
I know people will get mad at me for this. Maybe we moved to soon on Randy. He and Dabo were on the same path. The only difference is CLEMSON gave Dabo what he needed to succeed. Instead Miami was swindled by Golden. Gave him everything he needed financially and an extension. Randy’s recruiting wasnt bad at all. He was getting a few players, but never had the backing of the department. I’m not saying he was a great coach, but when the higher ups don’t give you what you need to succeed. Your doomed to fail from the start. That goes back to THE ADMIN/ATHLETIC DEPT not really giving a F about football. So if Manny doesn’t succeed. We’re right back where we were after firing Coker. That will be 3 New head coaches since 2000. Is there another POWER 5 CHAMPIONSHIP winner going through this?**** NO. Miami needs to get it the F together and find their guy if Manny doesn’t make
It. Best case scenario is Manny evolves into something spectacular or something we can believe that can get us there. Another bad hire sets us back exponentially.
 
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Until the defense flat out costs us a game while loaded with elite recruits I'm not going to harp on the scheme and what Baker does. We have done fine on defense this season, especially considering our poor LB play. All coaches are going to make mistakes or get caught with their pants down from time to time. We did a better job defending UVA than Clemson with less talent at CB, LB, and DL.
You are right and I can’t argue this at this time. But many in this fanbase have a gut feeling that this may be coming. Hope we’re wrong
 
Dabo Swinney and the Clemson Tiger's have sat atop the ACC since FSU's post-Jameis/Jimbo swoon began.

Here is how it came to be:

Swinney took over a 7-6 squad in 2009 and produced a competitive team that went 9-5 and played for the ACC championship losing to GT for the second time that season. Other losses included Maryland , TCU, and South Carolina. Modest improvement considering the previous year.

Side note: Miami was 9-4 that season and narrowly lost to Clemson at home in OT. We also defeated GT handily at home but as usual donked off a couple conference games on the road and finished well behind GT for a shot in the ACCCG

The following year Swinney came out and **** the bed going 6-7 in 2010. I'm sure he was on the hot seat following that season. Miami had a slightly better but similar year and a late season loss to USF cost Randy Shannon his job and Al Golden was brought in along with "The Cloud."

2011 was a step in the right direction for Dabo. His slightly more mature talent was able to muster a respectable 10-4 season. Obviously not good enough by Miami standards but not terrible either for a team trying to get over the hump. What should have been a great season with a big win early against perennial division and conference favorite FSU was spoiled by late season losses to in conference, middling teams GT, NC ST, and rival South Carolina. The season crash landed with an embarrassing bowl stomping by West Virginia, this was the birth of "Clemsoning" and were Dabo the coach at Miami he may well have been canned.

2012 was a season in which Clemson became a threat to the power that was FSU at the time. The first recruiting classes that Dabo had pieced together had matured into a very competitive and confident squad. Clemson lost two games that season to quality teams in FSU and South Carolina, both finished the season ranked. Clemson capped off a good year by defeating LSU in the Chik Fil A bowl by 1 pt 25-24, finishing 11-2 in year 4.

Side note: Recruiting at Clemson had not been bad prior to Dabo although the 2009 and 2010 classes were fairly poor 36th and 27th. Still, to this point Clemson was a top 10-15 recruiting team and would remain as such for the foreseeable future. The 2020 class was the first top 5 class under Dabo. Clemson has had just four top 10 recruiting classes under Dabo. 2015 (9th), 2018 (7th), 2019 (10th), and 2020 (3rd)

2013 was a mirror of 2012. Two losses to their biggest rivals. One a thrashing by Florida State at home 51-13 (in year 5 of Dabo's tenure) and the other loss to South Carolina, again, at the end of the season on the road. They managed an impressive bowl victory against OSU in the Orange Bowl to somewhat salvage the season and finish 11-2.

Clemson took a slight step back in 2014 losing to every ranked team they played during the regular season. A big win against Oklahoma capped an otherwise pedestrian year to go 10-3. It is worth noting a TF Deshaun Watson played but was not a starter and did not play in the bowl game against Oklahoma.

In 2015 Deshaun Watson took over as starting QB for Clemson and took them all the way to the National Championship game losing in a barn burner to Alabama. The following season Watson and Clemson won the title. The National Championship win removed the "Clemsoning" monkey from Dabo's back and solidified his reputation as an elite coach in CFB. They have dominated the ACC ever since and have been in the National Title game 5 straight seasons, going 2-3 in that span.

To be honest Clemson didn't achieve much of anything until they hit on a QB eval in Watson, they were lucky to follow that up with another elite NFL level QB in Lawrence. In fact the past 10 or so champions had 1st round talent at the QB position. Only Alabama has managed to win a National Title with mediocre QB play by having an oppressive defense and ridiculous O line and running game. We probably will never recruit in the trenches at a level that will allow us to dominate regardless of our air game and even Alabama has begun to transition away from that style as the game becomes more open and defense becomes more difficult to play. The key to winning a national title in today's landscape is to build a solid team on both sides of the ball and then hit on a QB eval. We will likely continue to come up short until we hit on a QB with 1st round talent. The key is for us to hang around that 10-2/11-1 range and recruit in the top 10 or so to stay well stocked for when the time comes that we hit on a QB.

All this to say that the road to dominance requires patience and some luck. Even if we stumble down the stretch this year that does not mean all hope is lost. Manny has proven that he can field a competitive defense even when he doesn't have great players at every level. That defense can be dominant when he has the right talent. It appears he is recruiting that type of talent right now. The jury is still out on the offense but the holes in this current team are evident and the staff is working to fill them. Winning in spite of deficiencies is the mark of a good staff. We may not look great doing it right now but it takes time to build a program that can dominate decent football teams week in and week out.
Alright, this is a pretty fair assessment.
 
Only thing would add is bigger emphasis on Clemson spending BIG money on bringing in top Coordinators to elevate clemson, before that 10 win season they bought in Chad Morris to adopt spread early on and reap benefit of that (as many teams were still pro style bro) and then after that 70 point WVU game kevin steele was fired and they bought in Venables who has had the best defense in last 5 years.. They have had very little staff turnover even as a championship winning squad.
Dabo went in and told them what he thought was needed. Indeed, the school could have told him to go **** himself. Instead they said, "let's roll!"
 
I know people will get mad at me for this. Maybe we moved to soon on Randy. He and Dabo were on the same path. The only difference is CLEMSON gave Dabo Randy’s recruiting wasnt bad at all. He was getting a few players, but never had the backing of the department. I’m not saying he was a great coach, but when the higher ups don’t give you what you need to succeed. Your doomed to fail from the start. That goes back to THE ADMIN/ATHLETIC DEPT not really giving a F about football.

I don't really agree with this. Shannon had great assistants. Stoutland, McGriff, Pannunzio, Richardson and Walton all went to the NFL. He just picked bad OCs and was too passive in everything he did. I don't know if Manny is a better coach, but I will say he is quicker to adjust than Shannon.
 
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