Perspective on going from competitive to Elite: Clemson's Rise to Dominance

[Rellyrell]

Couple of points.

"Boosters" is never going to happen at UM. It's not. Miami is a fundamentally different city and school from the "traditional" southern "booster" schools. I know, I know, some people are going to cite Ohio State or Michigan.

But we all need to realize, "boosters" are a phenomenon that is largely limited to large state schools PREDOMINANTLY in the South. It is a function of people trying to "buy" power, class, and prestige, and to live vicariously through a bunch of 20 year olds that they don't even really care about.

As someone pointed out on another thread, GaTech has a huge percentage of grads that go on to become millionaires. And, sure, the school is in GEORGIA. But GaTech grads aren't insecure wannabes who come back to throw their money around to compensate for their small penises. So that's why you're never going to have "boosters" at GaTech who spend money like the boosters at NEARBY UGa do.

You want to raise money for facilities in this day and age? Hit up the corporations that want to put their names on those facilities. There aren't a lot of T. Boone Pickenses anymore.

As for the coaches, yes, I'm also tired of comparisons. We had 4 coaches in a row who turned (or almost turned) their success at UM into pro coaching jobs. Schnellenberger (almost to the USFL) and JJ, Dennis, and Butch (to the NFL) have been followed by Coker, Shannon, Golden, and Richt.

And, honestly, the biggest issue with Richt (in some ways) is that he DID NOT stay longer, from a continuity standpoint. I'm not saying he would have won championships for us (Butch didn't, but Coker did), but I think a few more years of Richt, followed by a final season that doesn't smell like "forced to retire", might have given us a chance to attract a new coach who wasn't merely "our assistant who just took a G5 job".

I like/respect Manny, but I need more results to "fall in love". Manny could be like our 4 most recent coaches, or he could be more like our 4 prior coaches. THAT is the comparison I want to hear about. Not motherfvcking Dabo Swinney.

Yes, Dabo has a bunch of "got-rich-off-of-government-construction" hillbillies who are willing to commit financial crimes to get a sniff of a successful college football program. Miami is never going to have that.

Hear, Hear!

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

don't know if the years align, but the Bama years they didn't have a great QB, i bet they had the two heisman RB's..

Bama probably didn't have a transcendent QB every year, at the very least they had a competent signal caller. But I feel ya' on those RB's though, Bama stays stacked.

 

[LustNCanes]

As well as keeping him for as long as they have. If Brent were at Miami, he would have taken a HC job within two years. At Clemson, he seems locked in at DC for decades to come.

Why? If BV was at Miami why do you think he would of left for a HC job after 2 years? Just curious, for an answer..... and I agree with you.

Nice job on both posts!

 

[Rellyrell]

It’s all about how you look at it...This is a COVID year let’s see how this affects every program with recruiting, evaluations, development heck even finishing the season. Also we have no idea what Van Dyke is at Qb maybe there’s something there based on everything we have heard. Manny also has had one real class so far which is the 2020 class and again we don’t know what that will be. Miami for all the talk about not spending hired an OC that made $1 mill and idk how much lashlee is making but I’m sure it’s up there. At the end of the day you have to wait and see how the rest of this season plays out, even how next year (hopefully everything is back to some sort of normal) plays out. I’m sure in Dabo first few years ppl were saying and comparing the negatives also but again you don’t know how it would’ve turned out

Brotha; I already said pre season that Covid is in Manny’s back pocket and the admin’s back pocket this season if we happen to collapse.

The reason y we don’t know what we have w/ TVD is b/c we haven’t had an opportunity to use him due to these struggles we’ve had. I like how Dabo incorporates DJ into certain situations to get his feet wet & to evaluate & teach. I would love to see what TVD has but we won’t see it until King is good & ready to leave, and knowing us, we’ll probably still go through the portal to bring in a QB.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

And, honestly, the biggest issue with Richt (in some ways) is that he DID NOT stay longer, from a continuity standpoint.

LOL, did you see the amount of recruits we were hemorrhaging with Richt His final year? If Richt would've stayed just one more year we would've been a G5 level team.

 

[NDE]

Manny Diaz better go undefeated for the rest of his games and win by 20 points and if not we should be immediately terminated! What was Dabbo's record in his second year? 6 wins and 7 losses. What a bunch of morons on this board, wanting a new coach every year. We are 5 wins and 1 loss and morons keep on with the same BS. Under Diaz we have always had a top defense. Now we have a credible offense to match the defense. Both are not outstanding but at least we are now able to score points. Our recruiting class is in the top 15 and we have two 5 stars and several more in the works. As Dabbo's history illustrated, this can not be done overnight. You need to get a top QB and to continue to improve in your recruting classes each year. With his first recruting class under his full control, this year is an outstanding class. We are making incremental improvements just like Dabbo.

 

[Kn[]_[]ckles3o5]

Why? If BV was at Miami why do you think he would of left for a HC job after 2 years? Just curious, for an answer..... and I agree with you.

Nice job on both posts!

No disagreement that Venables is a great defensive coach and part of the reason Clemson has sustained their success but he also gave up 51 pts to FSU in his 2nd season as DC.

 

[LustNCanes]

Brotha; I already said pre season that Covid is in Manny’s back pocket and the admin’s back pocket this season if we happen to collapse.

The reason y we don’t know what we have w/ TVD is b/c we haven’t had an opportunity to use him due to these struggles we’ve had. I like how Dabo incorporates DJ into certain situations to get his feet wet & to evaluate & teach. I would love to see what TVD has but we won’t see it until King is good & ready to leave, and knowing us, we’ll probably still go through the portal to bring in a QB.

You see, @Rellyrell, that's what I mean. How do you know what you have with TVD? I mean, get him some reps early in the game. These guys get paid big money to evaluate these players to find out what you have in a game time situation and gain experience.

You just can't hope and wish this guy is the goods without seeing him in action.....

 

[who]

Manny Diaz better go undefeated for the rest of his games and win by 20 points and if not we should be immediately terminated! What was Dabbo's record in his second year? 6 wins and 7 losses. What a bunch of morons on this board, wanting a new coach every year. We are 5 wins and 1 loss and morons keep on with the same BS. Under Diaz we have always had a top defense. Now we have a credible offense to match the defense. Both are not outstanding but at least we are now able to score points. Our recruiting class is in the top 15 and we have two 5 stars and several more in the works. As Dabbo's history illustrated, this can not be done overnight. You need to get a top QB and to continue to improve in your recruting classes each year. With his first recruting class under his full control, this year is an outstanding class. We are making incremental improvements just like Dabbo.

You and the rest of the sunshine and rainbows crew in 2013:

We are 7 wins and 0 loss and morons keep on with the same BS!!!

 

[Kn[]_[]ckles3o5]

You and the rest of the sunshine and rainbows crew in 2013:

We are 7 wins and 0 loss and morons keep on with the same BS!!!

Golden did have a reasonably effective offense during his tenure and failed by keeping D'no and refusing to shift his defensive philosophy. That 7-0 team was close to turning the corner then swooned following that loss to FSU. We followed up what could have been a building year with a **** show year then came out and had a half way decent team that got pummeled by Clemson. He lost his job because he showed that he was not going to make the changes needed to improve the team and the team appeared to be regressing under his leadership.

So far Manny has proven that if he sees a problem he will fix it. So I am willing to see how this season and the next progresses before I crank up the sterno under his seat.

 

[Canes6292]

I whole heartedly disagree w u on your take of our expectations.

1. We are NOT CLEMSON. We are THE U. We are a national brand and forced our way as an elite program. Clemson had no identity.

2. Most here are not preaching national title, we’re preaching competency. This program has shown a lack of competency from an administrative level to the coaching level.

3. Most fans are upset b/c we literally took the Ferrari and willingly crashed it with **** poor decisions after **** poor decisions. Mark Richt did this University an absolute favor, and walked away as a man, and what did Blake do?

4. Fans look at our schedule each yr, and we see the cupcakes and it’s infuriating how we constantly trip ourselves up to ****, **** poor teams.

I’ve always preached that it takes at least 5 yrs to get a program up & running, and that’s total b.s, per new evidence.
-Dabo got Clemson to 10+ wins by yr 3

-Coach O got LSU to 10+ wins by yr 3

-Jim Harbaugh got UCSD to 10+ wins in yr 2, Stanford to 10+ wins by yr 4, and Meeechigan to 10+wins immediately

-Urban Meyers got Utah to 10+ wins by yr 2, UF to 10+ wins yr 2, and OSU to 10+ wins immediately

-Matt Rhule got Temple & Baylor to 10+ wins by yr 3

-Gary Patterson got TCU by yr 2

Etc, etc. The point is, it is not unrealistic to expect growth within a certain time frame. Miami is no different than any other school, yet we have a billion & 1 excuses as to why we are not.

I agree we should get to 10 wins by 2021, but if we get to 9-2 this season without an fcs opponent that's a 10 win season in any other year. The issue is people on this board thinking there's no chance that this staff can get us there because of a 19-14 win over UVA or getting the doors blown of by Clemson. As OP showed, that stuff happens during the climb.

Each one of those teams you mentioned had bad wins and losses while winning 10 games. LSU beat a 2-10 Arkansas team 24-17 in 2018 and lost to Alabama 29-0 in 2018. Ogeron started the 2019 season on the hot seat and a great hire of Joe Brady, Joe Burrow being the best QB ever, and having a team full of NFL talent led to a 15-0 season and a natty that year.

I'm just saying people need to take a step back and relax. Time will tell on the rest of this season, but if we finish 9-2 or 10-1 that's a promising sign for future years because Manny's changes to the OC (which, yes, he messed up in the 1st place) and the Kicker are the biggest difference from last year to this year (we averaged 25 ppg last year).

Manny wants to win and wants this team to be great. I trust him to keep changing what needs to be changed and keep growing as a coach if he's given time.

 

[Memnon]

Here's what needs to happen in order for us to get over the hump & become annual contenders:

- Consistently win 10 games for 3 straight seasons
- Consistently land top 10 recruiting classes for 3 years in a row
- FIND A BIG TIME QB; (Now this might look like find a high ranked QB, but not every big time QB is necessarily high ranked, Zach Wilson was just a mid-tier 3-star with a 85 rating coming out of HS & now he's arguably as good as Trevor Lawrence)
- Find 5 functional OL's who can hold a block for longer than 4 seconds
- FIND NFL WR's; (LSU last year had a roster full of NFL WR's, Bama every year has NFL WR's, Clemson has put a number of Elite WR's in the NFL over the years, Ohio St is another program that produces NFL WR's, Oklahoma the same) With the game evolving into the Uptempo passing era it's essential to have at least 3 very good Wide Outs.
- FIX CB RECRUITING; (We need NFL caliber Corners)
- Fix the Run game; our inability to Run the ball consistently has been a huge unspoken issue since Duke left, we've struggled running the ball despite having multiple NFL RB's in Walton, Gus, Homer & Deejay, it's something that Miami should never have a problem with, but yet for the last 4 years have only had one 1,000yd rusher
- Find a top tier Defensive Coordinator

There are things that need to be done from an administrative standpoint as well in terms of allocated funds & recruiting budget of course, but I'm mainly just talking about things that are fixable/achievable on the field.

Miami is not as far away as people might believe, this season could be a foundational building block that leads us into a string of good seasons, we just have to keep winning games & finish out the season strong, then parlay that into recruiting success for the classes 21, 22 & 23 etc..

In order to win the War you have to have the soldiers, recruiting is at the crux of our issues in terms of winning & losing, we fix our recruiting & hit on better evals & yall will be surprised how fast we actually start to turn things around as a program.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Here's what needs to happen in order for us to get over the hump & become annual contenders:

- Consistently win 10 games for 3 straight seasons
- Consistently land top 10 recruiting classes for 3 years in a row
- FIND A BIG TIME QB; (Now this might look like find a high ranked QB, but not every big time QB is necessarily high ranked, Zach Wilson was just a mid-tier 3-star with a 85 rating coming out of HS & now he's arguably as good as Trevor Lawrence)
- Find 5 functional OL's who can hold a block for longer than 4 seconds
- FIND NFL WR's; (LSU last year had a roster full of NFL WR's, Bama every year has NFL WR's, Clemson has put a number of Elite WR's in the NFL over the years, Ohio St is another program that produces NFL WR's, Oklahoma the same) With the game evolving into the Uptempo passing era it's essential to have at least 3 very good Wide Outs.
- FIX CB RECRUITING; (We need NFL caliber Corners)
- Fix the Run game; our inability to Run the ball consistently has been a huge unspoken issue since Duke left, we've struggled running the ball despite having multiple NFL RB's in Walton, Gus, Homer & Deejay, it's something that Miami should never have a problem with, but yet for the last 4 years have only had one 1,000yd rusher
- Find a top tier Defensive Coordinator

There are things that need to be done from an administrative standpoint as well in terms of allocated funds & recruiting budget of course, but I'm mainly just talking about things that are fixable/achievable on the field.

Miami is not as far away as people might believe, this season could be a foundational building block that leads us into a string of good seasons, we just have to keep winning games & finish out the season strong, then parlay that into recruiting success for the classes 21, 22 & 23 etc..

In order to win the War you have to have the soldiers, recruiting is at the crux of our issues in terms of winning & losing, we fix our recruiting & hit on better evals & yall will be surprised how fast we actually start to turn things around as a program.

Talk to Saban. He will tell you, ad nauseum, it's all about recruiting. Recruit, recruit, recruit some more. It's imperative we finish this season off strong...the 2021 class is excellent, all things considered. Sign a top 7-8 class in 2022, and 2023, and you might be cooking with grease.

And of course, the QB. It's the reason you bring one in every class, bar none. It's the most important position in sports. You cannot win big in 2020+ football without a very good to excellent QB. It's paramount we find the guy after King, then the guy after him, etc.

 

[Rellyrell]

Here's what needs to happen in order for us to get over the hump & become annual contenders:

- Consistently win 10 games for 3 straight seasons
- Consistently land top 10 recruiting classes for 3 years in a row
- FIND A BIG TIME QB; (Now this might look like find a high ranked QB, but not every big time QB is necessarily high ranked, Zach Wilson was just a mid-tier 3-star with a 85 rating coming out of HS & now he's arguably as good as Trevor Lawrence)
- Find 5 functional OL's who can hold a block for longer than 4 seconds
- FIND NFL WR's; (LSU last year had a roster full of NFL WR's, Bama every year has NFL WR's, Clemson has put a number of Elite WR's in the NFL over the years, Ohio St is another program that produces NFL WR's, Oklahoma the same) With the game evolving into the Uptempo passing era it's essential to have at least 3 very good Wide Outs.
- FIX CB RECRUITING; (We need NFL caliber Corners)
- Fix the Run game; our inability to Run the ball consistently has been a huge unspoken issue since Duke left, we've struggled running the ball despite having multiple NFL RB's in Walton, Gus, Homer & Deejay, it's something that Miami should never have a problem with, but yet for the last 4 years have only had one 1,000yd rusher
- Find a top tier Defensive Coordinator

There are things that need to be done from an administrative standpoint as well in terms of allocated funds & recruiting budget of course, but I'm mainly just talking about things that are fixable/achievable on the field.

Miami is not as far away as people might believe, this season could be a foundational building block that leads us into a string of good seasons, we just have to keep winning games & finish out the season strong, then parlay that into recruiting success for the classes 21, 22 & 23 etc..

In order to win the War you have to have the soldiers, recruiting is at the crux of our issues in terms of winning & losing, we fix our recruiting & hit on better evals & yall will be surprised how fast we actually start to turn things around as a program.

I see no lies in this post.

Fact is, we are not one of the schools that need to ramp up; we have back yard talent in spitting distance from us. But everyone knows that, hence So. Fla is one of the 1st areas to be raided. We do our part, and we’ll be up to par, but I feel like we’ve been saying “do our part” for yrs. I feel like we’ve made Mt Everest out of a speed bump.

 

[Rellyrell]

You see, @Rellyrell, that's what I mean. How do you know what you have with TVD? I mean, get him some reps early in the game. These guys get paid big money to evaluate these players to find out what you have in a game time situation and gain experience.

You just can't hope and wish this guy is the goods without seeing him in action.....

No lie; I’m a little distraught to hear QB2 is still a battle between he & Perry. We KNOW what we have in Perry. Why is there a QB battle? B/c Perry is an upper classman?? I pay attention to all that chit, man. It may fly over other’s heads, but not mine. There is no reason not to give TVD a couple of snaps, and I’m not talking about kneeling on the ball like Richt used to do.

 

[Rellyrell]

Thanks OP. Oh the narratives on here. It's like Hatfield vs McCoy's, Biden vs Trump.

No question it takes time unless you take on a team already on cruise control. What is the time? Who knows for sure but it takes a solid run of a recruiting cycle, four years, steady recruiting and luck!

Let's look at Dabo and what he did since everyone is highly fixated on his keen eye for QB-
2009 ~ Taj Boyd...homerun recruit
2010 ~ no QB taken but they signed NFL talent ~ Martavis Bryant, Breeland, Vic Beasley and Deandre Hopkins
2011 ~ bombs on two QB's Tony McNeil and Cole Stoudt. Does land Sammy Watkins and DeShaun Williams
2012 ~ bombs with QB Chad Kelly...lands Shaq Lawson, Tankersley and Reader
2013 ~ no QB...does land Mike Williams
2014 ~ the bell cow DeShaun Watson...class overall was 16th ranked and third in the ACC(247)
2015 ~ lands QB's Kelly Bryant who turned out to be below average and Tucker Israel. Did land the #9 class ~ Cain, Wilkins and Ferrell
2016 ~ lands QB Zerrick Cooper who bombed...class rank is #11 (247) with the prize being Dexter Lawrence
2017 ~ lands QB's Hunter Johnson and Chase Brice who both bombed...bell cow recruits Higgins, Etienne and Terrell
2018 ~ the landing of Sunshine himself at QB...The ultimate homerun! The #7 class
2019 ~ lands QB Taisun Phommachanh which is incomplete grade at this time...class overall is #10...also continues stacking WR's Ladson and Ngata
2020 ~ lands QB DJ Uiagalelei which is incomplete grade at this time. class rank of #3.

For those that say Dabo is the "QB whisperer" he sure as **** struck out more than got right. Boyd, Watson and Sunshine an A++. He failed with McNeil, Stoudt, Kelly, Bryant, Israel, Cooper, Johnson and Brice. I'll stop there as 19 and 20 is too early to tell. That's EIGHT QB misses out of 11 signings over a 10 year period.

1. Recruit the **** out of QB's every year. Get them into school, create competition and let the best man win. Forget this BS with participation trophies and feelings hurt. Play well or GTFOH!
2. Land WR's ! Top level QB's want studs on the outside and Dabo has done that well.
3. DL..DL...DL...A+ for Dabo and this an area Manny stacks up with Dabo.
4. The intangibles which is bringing on the best coaches to fit what you're trying to do and keep them. Dabo has done a good job here with continuity. And no, I'm not saying sign a Venables as we know UM will not pay that kind of coin. Find the right coach for less but that has the desire and aspirations to excel.

Clemson is a great comparison as they are the kings of the ACC and it's what we want. To dethrone them!

Go CANES!

Lol; sometimes I look at certain post and I just

You do realize that you can play only one QB at a time, don’t you? Your post is disingenuous, bruh.

Tahj was the incumbent starter from 2011-2013.
Next, True Freshman DeShaun Watson took over the reigns from 2014-2016. He actually earned the starting position by outplaying Cole Stoudt and became the incumbent starter.
Then Bryant took over in 2017 and did VERY well, including kicking the dog chit outta us! He went 12-1 in the Reg season leading Clemson to the CFP
2018, Bryant was simply outplayed by Lawrence & lost his job, so he transferred.

We are now in the Lawrence era.

So all those “QB misses” is bull chit. He didn’t miss; he recruited the Fck outta the position, created competition, where even if u were a starter, you could get ur position snatched if not careful. The cream all rose to the top: Boyd, Watson, then Lawrence.

 

[88]

For starts, Clemson has extremely fat pockets. I forgot the which study someone posted, but they are also spending the largest portion of their net revenue back into the team. They're extremely invested. It let them poach Venables away from a dominant program. It let them make Chad Morris the highest paid assistant in the nation. It let them keep Dabo once he started to really succeed. It lets them keep elite senior talent, and recruit with the best of them. That's really what changed with the Clemson program. Dabo didn't have some secret ingredient; he's a **** good coach but that financial backing was really what made it all turn.

 

[Rellyrell]

For starts, Clemson has extremely fat pockets. I forgot the which study someone posted, but they are also spending the largest portion of their net revenue back into the team. They're extremely invested. It let them poach Venables away from a dominant program. It let them make Chad Morris the highest paid assistant in the nation. It let them keep Dabo once he started to really succeed. It lets them keep elite senior talent, and recruit with the best of them. That's really what changed with the Clemson program. Dabo didn't have some secret ingredient; he's a **** good coach but that financial backing was really what made it all turn.

And that’s the thing right there, as I mentioned: they reinvested into the program. Once upon a time, Miami saw profits growing & they reinvested in the school. But it feels like ages ago.

 

[Meast21]

Y'all are saying "outside of 'Bama" like they haven't won 40% of the national titles the last decade. Reaching the conclusion that you need a 1st round QB based on this data is a logical fallacy. Also, Hurts took the majority of snaps at QB for 'Bama in 2017.

While I appreciate the sentiment of the post in general, the notion of "needing" a 1st round QB is shaky, at best.

Uhh wrong. 5/6 teams winning with an "elite QB" is not a logical fallacy, it's a simple fact and points to a clear pattern. Bama is the clear outlier. Go back further and you see more of it - You think Texas wins without a Vince Young? Elite QB's give mid/high tier programs the best shot at winning a NC, not dominant defenses or total "complete" programs. This aint 2001 or the 80's anymore...

And OP's point is right. LOL at anyone who thinks we will turn into a Saban Bama dynasty ever (we dont have the $$$). Not happening. Best case is 10/11 win seasons beating up on the ****** ACC, bring in top 5-10 crooting classes, and then hit gold with an "Elite" QB who takes us to the promise land.

We are all frustrated to F becuz with So Fla talent and the ****** ACC Coastal division we're in this shouldnt be as hard as it is. But here we are.

 

[joseermonfils]

You see, @Rellyrell, that's what I mean. How do you know what you have with TVD? I mean, get him some reps early in the game. These guys get paid big money to evaluate these players to find out what you have in a game time situation and gain experience.

You just can't hope and wish this guy is the goods without seeing him in action.....

But what other program does this? It’s a very uncommon thing to bring in another Qb for reps in game matter of fact I’m not even sure if Clemson does this in other games besides when they played us...most of the time they are blowing teams out so they can let the backups play