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Patke - Alleged Special Teams Sensei

I’m not crowning Patke because of good kickers for the same reason I’m not bashing him for poor return game. Honestly, I think the coach has very little to do with special teams success. If Patke was some kind of kicking savant, why did Baxa suck so bad. If he can’t coach returners, why did we have really good punt returners every year until 2020?
 
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CashMoneyCane said:
OK, you didn't, because you say so. You just equivocated it to things that are not nearly as important as ball security to highlight it's a huge deal.

Maybe you should just stick to "15-0" all the time. It's your best work
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When Bubba couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn and Feagles was punting for net negative yardage it cost us a lot more than the muffed punts did in 2020.

I didn’t trivialize it and your assertion that it’s somehow more important than the rest of the special teams is preposterous and stupid.

Go talk down to some doofus, your condescension doesn’t fly here.
 
Da Jumbo Mutombo said:
I like objectivity. So ill converse.

I dont think I said they kicked great because of Patke. I was responding to the poster who said they were great before patke. That wasn't true.

Either way, kicking is a specialty niche. Most STs coaches don't teach that. That is up to trainers.

I ST coach should be judged on blocked punts, kicks, and kickoff coverage units. Thats really all that is in his control. I thought for the most part those units did well. One blocked kick and one kick returned for a td. Not that bad. Could be better though, but certainly not worthy of the hate he gets on here.
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Sorry, my post quoted you in regards to young Borregales, but I was just also replying just in general to the slurpers.
I agree with you on most aspects, and am also not necessarily a patke-out proponent. I'm just pointing out that as far as ST goes, he had little to do with kicking and is mediocre at everything else. Other posters, such as fawk_u_haters want to point out how Patke is this Godlike kicking coach and that isn't the case.

I'm also of the belief that we aren't developing players across the board as good as we need to be. For every GR, we have like 10 Mark Pope's or DJ Ivey's. All the talent in the world, but terrible development. Now maybe that is on the players work ethic or maybe it is on the coaching. But ironically enough a majority of our transfers seem to have been our best players and mostly already been "good". ie Roche, King, KJ Osborn, Bolden, Borregales, etc. Meanwhile players we signed out of HS literally enter their senior years and haven't done nearly anything.
With that said, I think we're doing a decent job with JHH and Couch, and obviously players like Mike Harley have made strides (even if it was due to their own mindset)

I'm hoping with the new staff additions we will have fixed that issue. It does feel like we will start doing better and better with recruiting, but then again I remember being trolled by that with Al Golden as well, so don't wanna speak too soon.
 
Da Jumbo Mutombo said:
I like objectivity. So ill converse.

I dont think I said they kicked great because of Patke. I was responding to the poster who said they were great before patke. That wasn't true.

Either way, kicking is a specialty niche. Most STs coaches don't teach that. That is up to trainers.

I ST coach should be judged on blocked punts, kicks, and kickoff coverage units. Thats really all that is in his control. I thought for the most part those units did well. One blocked kick and one kick returned for a td. Not that bad. Could be better though, but certainly not worthy of the hate he gets on here.
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I appreciate this response, and I agree with nearly every word you wrote, except for the two bolded sentences.

On the first bolded point, here's what we know:
Overall, our kick/punt coverage/return stats are below average for the FBS.
We allowed one blocked kick, but managed to block three kicks ourselves.
We only allowed one kick return TD.
We were well above average in touchbacks per kickoff thanks to our stud kicker (fewer touchbacks could have resulted in our subpar kickoff coverage being exposed for more TDs).
We did not return a punt or kickoff for a TD all season.
I have not gone back to count, but I am fairly confident we muffed at least 10 punts last season.

In light of the above, I come to the conclusion that outside of Jose, Hedley, and Clay James (our long snapper deserves some love, too), our special teams play was bad.

On the second bolded point, I suspect his name keeps getting brought up negatively because: (1) some people feel a strong urge to defend Patke and want to give him credit for the excellent kicking and punting we had last season, which has more to do with trainers, effort, and private coaches; and (2) Patke is also a subpar recruiter, and many people on this board are of the opinion that the ST coach is a place where you should load up with a recruiting ace.
 
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rsa coral gables said:
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

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No offense but you do actually realize what these numbers represent correct?

on kickoff return yards the #15 ranked team averaged 5 more yards per KO return than us...now thats game-breaking yardage!!

Wait...wait...
You forgot to mention we had 3 blocked kicks which is good enough to be tied for 7th

oh, hold on, there stat guy:
50 of the teams ranked ahead of us, on average KO return yds. allowed, played less than 10 games. BYU was ranked #3, playing 12 games and giving up an average of 15 yds per return on 22 returns. A whopping 8yds per return than US!!
For the record this is a stat we need to fix & to better on, but if we can manage to shave off 4yds per return, it puts us in top 40 (which is probably still not good enough for some of you)

Punt return defense...7.3 yds per return...ok, however you still understand that we have the best NET punting in the league...so take away as many yds per return as you want. WERE STILL THE BEST NET PUNTING TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, LMAO
 
All I care about to know is if Pope and Wiggins still on the team...if so, the Canes will be deficient in whatever they do regardless of the coach Savant or no Savant.
 
So far Manny has made the move that make sense when it comes to his staff, at least on paper...Canning Patke makes ZERO sense when you look at the big picture, sorry bud.
 
Patke is the new Rumph. Got blind followers no matter how below average he has proven to be. Everyone should just ask themselves could Miami do better than Patke? The answer is clearly yes the same way the answer was clearly yes on Rumph.

I would even argue that TWill is still here if he had the entire LB room and given co DC title. Instead we was doing half a job because the Boy Wonder Patke for some weird reason needed to be on staff.
 
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CashMoneyCane said:
You might as well just say "I don't understand how statistics work."
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The point was anyone can find statistics to prove their side of the argument, hence why I quoted the famous saying.

You might as well have just said "I'm a moron and have never heard the quote and don't know what it means".
 
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S.CarolinaCane said:
So far Manny has made the move that make sense when it comes to his staff, at least on paper...Canning Patke makes ZERO sense when you look at the big picture, sorry bud.
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didn't he try to "can" him this offseason, but unlike with Baker, who found another job, Patke didn't find another job and therefore was retained.
 
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ssvir said:
The point was anyone can find statistics to prove their point on either side of the argument, hence why I quoted the famous saying.

You might as well have just said "I'm a moron and have never heard the quote and don't know what it means".
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the truth is that statistics are correct about 87.5% of the time.
 
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rsa coral gables said:
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

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****, why’d Celia have to catch flames too? 😂
 
DTP said:
I’m not crowning Patke because of good kickers for the same reason I’m not bashing him for poor return game. Honestly, I think the coach has very little to do with special teams success. If Patke was some kind of kicking savant, why did Baxa suck so bad. If he can’t coach returners, why did we have really good punt returners every year until 2020?
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Ahhh, logic 😌
 
Im pretty sure i havent heard or read anyone say hes a great ST coach...

I think your mistaken in which certain well informed posters whose opinions are highly regarded on here say Patke has the most potential when it comes to being a coach
 
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