Patke - Alleged Special Teams Sensei

rsa coral gables

Absolute Pingudo
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
2,882
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

kickoff return defense.PNG
kickoff returns.PNG
punt return defense.PNG
punt returns.PNG
 

Fawk_U Haters

Junior
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
3,504
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

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I love the false narrative here that Joey B was "GREAT" before he got here. When the real truth is he had 1 great game, against Miami, before he got here. Here are his stats before coming to UM and while at UM. He was only "GREAT" with UM. But that is an amazing job wasting your time. I got to hand it to you, Patke living rent free in you.

STATS
2020
2019
2018
2017

FG%FG1-1920-2930-3940-4950+LNGXPMXPAPTS
90.920-220-05-56-67-92-257373797
72.421-290-07-86-115-63-4533739100
73.714-190-06-73-54-61-153545596
83.315-180-07-76-62-40-144404085
 

colperm

Sophomore
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
650
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

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Thanks for the insight, always appreciate stats/analysis. I agree with most of what you're saying, but to say that Hedley was already a great punter before he got to UM is probably a bit of an overstatement.

I'm also hopeful that with the influx of talent we've brought in the last two recruiting cycles our return defense will improve. In the early 2000s the secret to our success was really that we were trotting out future 1st rounders to cover kicks.

The return game needs to improve, plain and simple. It's flat out embarrassing that Miami doesn't have a guy with return skills who can field punts consistently.
 

BostonCanes47

Freshman
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
336
I don’t think anybody is arguing that the guy is an excellent special teams coach. It’s the people who say he’s stealing a check from the university of Miami that make no sense.

We could be a lot worse on special teams. How quickly people forget 2017-2019. Special teams Are predicate on having a deep roster which Miami hasn’t had in a long time. We had walk ons getting reps on special teams...that is something that should never happen. Even last year we had guys on our special teams who had no business seeing the field, but had to because we lacked the talented depth.

headley who knows more about his own development than anybody on this board has gone out of his way multiple times to credit Patke for his development. It’s insane how much he improved from 2019 to 2020.
 

Cookie917

Recruit
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,492
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

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Not saying Patke is or is not a ST demon or that stats will support or refute that, but the biggest issue I have with these stats is the Punt Return Defense....

in 11 games we only have 8 returns?! Am I reading that right? for a whopping 59 yards. Yet we are behind a team like Akron who gave up 20 returns for 144 yards because the avg return yd is less which is I am assuming the only stat measured. Hedley broke a record for highest net punt average, I think around 46 yards. That happens because every single punt (minus 8 apparently) were fair caught, kicked out of bounds, or were not fielded and rolled and were downed. Yes it has to do with Hedley style of punting and him being the man, it also has slightly to do with our punt coverage being close enough where a guy needs to fair catch it or is uncomfortable picking it up.

Edit** I just looked at the full stat list and have even bigger issues. within the top ten are Kent State (only played 4 games) FIU (5 games); Miami OH (3 games); Ohio (3 games) and eastern Michigan (6 games); the # 1 punt return defense? Oklahoma ST who somehow got NEGATIVE 18 return yards, that has to be a fumble or muffed punt they take the stats against. Hell Duke is in the top 10, gave up 16 punts for a total of 12 yards and a TD but somehow only gave up 12 TOTAL return yards for a whopping .75 avg.... how TF you give up only 12 yards when you gave up a TD? I doubt they punted from their endzone to the 12. Had to be something similar like OK St. with a big muff etc. cuz that sh!t don't make sense. Basically I would take our punt return defense from 2020 ever year moving forward if given the option.
 
Last edited:

Da Jumbo Mutombo

Sophomore
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
585
I love the false narrative here that Joey B was "GREAT" before he got here. When the real truth is he had 1 great game, against Miami, before he got here. Here are his stats before coming to UM and while at UM. He was only "GREAT" with UM. But that is an amazing job wasting your time. I got to hand it to you, Patke living rent free in you.

STATS
2020
2019
2018
2017

FG%FG1-1920-2930-3940-4950+LNGXPMXPAPTS
90.920-220-05-56-67-92-257373797
72.421-290-07-86-115-63-4533739100
73.714-190-06-73-54-61-153545596
83.315-180-07-76-62-40-144404085
Not only that, but Hedley was averaging 38-39 yards a punt in Juco before he got here. To say that is great before Patke is comical.

Idk the impact Patke had on their kicking improvements, but anyone he tries to make that argument loses credit imo. They show themselves to be non objective.

Also, Patke recruited and signed young Borregales, if were taking credit away from recruiting the old one.
 

88

Senior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
6,614
Elite teams hire experienced special teams guys and a lot of the time that’s what they do exclusively. We’re cool with just using Patke. Diaz has done special teams in the past at NCST, so maybe he had a big hand in it.
 

L A M P

Fly The Banners
Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
9,695
To Manny's credit (yuck), he is quick to correct pressing issues.

Coaching staff, position units (see: King, Borreagales, etc.), even changing offensive philosophies.. The guy isn't afraid to shake it up. In saying that, Patke has survived the purge time after time. He's also been reported to be the brains behind Manny's scheme. Perhaps we are a bit too critical on the guy without having insider knowledge.
 

SrfGtr

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
413
Don’t forget we are finally blocking kicks again.
Ur argument could be punt fielding ; effing rediculous granted. The rest is really just ... CIS gonna offseason CIS.
 

Fawk_U Haters

Junior
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
3,504
Not only that, but Hedley was averaging 38-39 yards a punt in Juco before he got here. To say that is great before Patke is comical.

Idk the impact Patke had on their kicking improvements, but anyone he tries to make that argument loses credit imo. They show themselves to be non objective.

Also, Patke recruited and signed young Borregales, if were taking credit away from recruiting the old one.
I mean it would be better if people just said i hate Patke because i hate manny. Guilt by association kind of thing. This reeks of dudes who want to be right above all else, including Miami being good. Smartest guy in the room kind of thing.

I also find it funny because i bet we could pull up OP bashing some kind of argument that used stats, but here he goes using shitty midleading stats. I mean you don't get the #1 net punting average of all time by having a shitty return defense. You also don't get it by just Hedley. It's a total effort as as someone pointed out above.
 

No_Fly_Zone

Not a scientist or engineer
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
4,883
Many porsters* here argue that Patke is an excellent special teams coach and to support their assertion they highlight Borregales' and Hedley's success. This argument is false. First, Patke had zero to do with recruiting Borregales and Hedely. Second, Borregales and Hedley were already great at their position before Patke's "coaching". And third, look at the special teams rankings below.

1. Kickoff Return Defense - Rank #101.
2. Kickoff Returns - Rank #60.
3. Punt Return Defense - Rank #69.
4. Punt Returns - Rank #121.

Our special teams are not very special. As Diaz once said, Miami should never be ranked in the 100s in the ANYTHING.

Please stop repeating the false narrative that Patke is a very good special teams coach. Celia Cruz could have done a better job.

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Clearly, I approve of this message: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/patke-is-the-real-off-season-winner.167716/
 
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