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OT (well, kind of) Punishment Excessive?

Southcane said:
Did you read the article?
The school wanted to show the students the gravity of cheating. Yes other students were "unfairly" affected by this but imagine how strong of lesson this would be for those young men.
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Same story I read yesterday with no more details. Shady crap for sure but guess I am beyond the “life lessons” especially when other team players have no idea and are just trying to compete. It’s the leadership and who they chose to hire that failed. Be more thorough in your ethics and do a better job who your hire as your HC. School leadership failed like the Miami board did, just in a different way.
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
The short answer is no, I don't straight up say "Listen kids, make sure you cheat on everyone of your tests this week or you will be going to school with black eyes this week".

However, I do explain that you need to do whatever it takes to be successful. If that means bending, breaking, or finding loopholes in the rules. So be it. Everyone else is going to be doing the same thing.
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Thank you for being candid here. Not how I teach my kids. Each to his own.
For me, I tell my kids if you get a "B" on your own with only hard work is better than "A" with little bit of cheating. But that's me.
 
South Side Chi Cane said:
No but those people will pay the price for that somehow.
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The vast majority of them will never be caught and will reap the benefits of that for the remainder of their lives.

If you are talking in a religious sense, as in someday they will have to account to god for their sins.

Then yes, this is true, but a lot of "crimes and laws they are breaking" are not sins in any religion so they won't be paying the price for that either.

Its not like god is going to say "well sorry, but I am not going to let you in heaven since you abused a tax loop hole".
 
Southcane said:
Thank you for being candid here. Not how I teach my kids. Each to his own.
For me, I tell my kids if you get a "B" on your own with only hard work is better than "A" with little bit of cheating. But that's me.
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No problem. That is very commendable.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially with how risky cheating on tests is now. It is very hard to get away with it.

If I owned a large business and my son was going to take it over. I would 100% no condone cheating on tests, since I would want him to be the most educated he could possibly be.

However, if my son was trying to get into Stanford and had straight As, and somehow didn't hear about a test. Walked into the class and his option is cheat and get an A or B or get a D. I would recommend he takes the risk and cheats here.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
The vast majority of them will never be caught and will reap the benefits of that for the remainder of their lives.

If you are talking in a religious sense, as in someday they will have to account to god for their sins.

Then yes, this is true, but a lot of "crimes and laws they are breaking" are not sins in any religion so they won't be paying the price for that either.

Its not like god is going to say "well sorry, but I am not going to let you in heaven since you abused a tax loop hole".
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At the end of the day like everyone they got to live with themselves. I couldn’t feel right if I knew I was a piece of ****.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
That is also very commendable of you. I think the majority of those people are narcissists and it doesn't bother them at all. lol.
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I’ll tell ya, I heard a story one time about Lee Atwater who was Karl Rove’s mentor back in the day. Now I am not trying to put down republicans. Just tying to illustrate a point. As Atwater lay dying he supposedly had an emotional change of heart and not over politics, just over all the **** he had done and all the people he ****ed over to be who he was. Not what I would want on my mind as I was checking out.
 
Uom2001 said:
Knowing only probably 10% or less of the details I will opine. Seems excessive and punishes the other innocent players. Perhaps get a staff member to be interim.
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Check out the article, the entire team was in on it. Kid was suspended for week 1. Wore different jersey and had 100+Yds and td. coach gave post gave interview where he said he started the freshman because he worked hard to earn the start. After that game the kid also gave interview saying he learnt his lesson from the suspension. It’s now week 7.
Scumbag coach and kid with low character. Admin did the right thing to burn it all down
 
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South Side Chi Cane said:
I’ll tell ya, I heard a story one time about Lee Atwater who was Karl Rove’s mentor back in the day. Now I am not trying to put down republicans. Just tying to illustrate a point. As Atwater lay dying he supposedly had an emotional change of heart and not over politics, just over all the **** he had done and all the people he ****ed over to be who he was. Not what I would want on my mind as I was checking out.
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I wonder if Obama will have the same change of heart...or if the victims of our politicians give a **** if they are republican or democrats
 
Tetragrammaton Cane said:
The punishment is excessive as **** and has NOTHING to do with teaching integrity. And whose “integrity” at that? Firing all the coaches? Yes. Disbanding the team? Stupid and unfair and only proves that punishments only flow towards those ill-equipped financially to fight it.

As I always say, @OriginalGatorHater is heavy-handed as **** (an occupational hazard if he doesn’t think that way) … but he ain’t wrong! The world is NOT a meritocracy and good guys do finish last (read up on David Sarnoff and how he built RCA/NBC…).

separately, I read this article a while back (yeah, it’s huffington post, get over it)
www.huffpost.com

The 'Glass Floor' Is Keeping America's Richest Idiots At The Top

Elites are finding more ways to ensure that their children never run out of chances to fail.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

…Zach Dell is the son of billionaire tech magnate Michael Dell. Though he told reporters that he wasn’t relying on family money, Thread’s early investors included a number of his father’s friends, including Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff.
The app failed almost instantly. Perhaps the number of monogamy-seeking students just wasn’t large enough, or capping users at 10 matches per day limited the app’s addictiveness. It could also have been the mismatch between Thread’s chaste motto and its user experience. Users got just 70 characters to describe themselves on their profiles. Most of them resorted to catchphrases like “Hook ’em” and “Netflix is life.”
After Thread went bust, Dell moved into philanthropy with a startup called Sqwatt, which promised to deliver “low-cost sanitation solutions for the developing world.” Aside from an empty website and a promotional video with fewer than 100 views, the effort seems to have disappeared.
And yet, despite helming two failed ventures and having little work experience beyond an internship at a financial services company created to manage his father’s fortune, things seem to be working out for Zach Dell. According to his LinkedIn profile, he is now an analyst for the private equity firm Blackstone. He is 22.
America has a social mobility problem. Children born in 1940 had a 90% chance of earning more than their parents. For children born in 1984, the odds were 50-50.
Most accounts of this trend focus on the breakdown of upward mobility: It’s getting harder for the poor to become rich. But equally important is the decline of downward mobility: The rich, regardless of their intelligence, are becoming more likely to stay that way.


…But billionaire heirs are only a tiny part of the problem. Over the last 30 years, nearly every institution of social mobility, from education to work to government spending, has been systematically tilted toward the wealthy. Rather than sending our most brilliant minds up the income ladder, America is ensuring that the wealthy, no matter their mediocrity, retain their grip on the highest rung.

…Last month, a Duke University study revealed that 43% of white Harvard students were not admitted on merit. They were ALDCs: recruited athletes, legacies, students on the dean’s interest list, and children of faculty and staff. The “dean’s interest list” is a roster of applicants with ties to wealthy donors.

… Over the last 20 years, selective universities have become just as dominated by the wealthy as the elite colleges — while receiving a fraction of the attention. Notre Dame, the University of North Carolina and the University of Southern California, for example, admit higher percentages of legacy students than Princeton. Thirty-eight colleges — including upper-crust mainstays Colgate and Tufts — admit more students from the top 1% than from the bottom 60%. At Washington University in St. Louis, the worst offender, the ratio is 3-to-1.


“These aren’t just elite institutions, they’re elitist institutions,” Reeves said. “They end up serving the children of today’s elite rather than preparing tomorrow’s elite.”
Public colleges are subject to the same trend. In 2017, University of Georgia students had a median family income of $129,800. Two-thirds of the students at the University of Michigan came from the richest fifth of the income distribution; just 1 in 30 came from the poorest fifth.

Everyone knows this to be true; and one of the reasons why immigrants are so successful is that they don’t see many of the “obstacles”, rules and inhibitors that hold back native-born. Interestingly enough, another successful group that doesn’t see the “inhibitors“…ironically the dyslexic.
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One of the best posts in CIS history. You are 100% correct bro.
 
Tetragrammaton Cane said:
Atwater understood that the “dog whistle“ was going to be integral; he was a visionary in a particularly dirty business.
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He was also a scumbag tetra. I say this being a reformed scumbag myself. The one thing i always remember about that time was that I may have had an introduction to that life by another person, but I sure took to it like a duck to water.
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
When every single large business in the world is "cheating". You need to cheat to be able to compete with them.
Since its a football message board. Look at football. You have Urban Meyer winnings NCs while covering up Hernandez murdering people. The pouncey twins committing tons of crimes. Among tons of other crimes.

You have Saban winning tons of NCs while covering up tons of crimes of his players. Like the guys getting caught driving around with illegal guns and illegally paying players

Jimbo winning an NC while covering up a rape, domestic abuse, and tons of other crimes.

Dabo winning an NC covering up tons of crime and illegally paying players.

Then you have the goodie goodies that want to "play fair" and they never even sniff the playoffs.
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But Dabo just made a kid ride the bus home for throwing a punch. Integrity doesnt work in the business world, we know that. And their is not a ton of integrity in college football when it comes to off the field matters. However, we must keep the integrity of the sport in tact on the field. Any cheating during the game should not be tolerated.
 
Don't know about you guys, but I try to live as a man of honor. I want my word and my name to mean something.

I may not have a lot of money; but what I say, I do.

This argument of 'integrity has never got me anything' is a bull**** argument.
 
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