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OT: Was Kobe the most competitive player in league history?

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MIA42178 said:
@RemainMack

I think you accidentally made a mistake.

You have a guy who is notorious for bouncing from team to team in search of teammates who can help him get rings as #3 competitor all time

I didnt quote OP so you can edit it still
I’ll delete this when you do

no one has to know
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No mistake. It was my top 15 players of all time. Probably why you're confused but thanks ;)
 
The most competitive players are the ones who play hard on both ends every night.

Not many qualify right now. Adebayo, Gobert, Lowry, CP3, etc.

Kobe did not compete on D consistently enough to the level of being that kind of competitor. He crafted an image/character that created the perception of it. Westbrook has done the same. Kobe also had playoff games where he was doggin it or refused to score or pass out of spite.

His death was tragic on many levels but let's not whitewash his career.
 
Jordan was the most competitive on both ends of the floor IMO. But larry bird and magic johnson had taken competitiveness to whole new level prior to his great success.
 
It is hard to define "most competitive".

But since the OP mentioned "limited athletically", of all the top names mentioned, you have to admit that Bird was very limited athletically. Which means that his accomplishments were driven more by "competitiveness" than athletic ability.

Magic, Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron all were FAR more athletic than Bird.

Then you look at Bird's practice habits. Off the charts.

Bird elevated the players around him. Without Bird, it is VERY unlikely that Robert Parish, Kevin McHale, and Dennis Johnson would be in the NBA Hall of Fame. Maybe Bill Walton just misses out too, without his late-career renaissance playing with Bird.

And to top it all off, Bird was a world class ****e-talker. He would call his shot, and then make his shot. He was taking deep threes before it was a thing, then he would rub it in his opponent's face.

Bird was competitive on a level that few have ever come close to, and yes, Kobe came close, particularly as a ****e-talker. But, seriously, ask yourself which teammates Kobe elevated to a Hall of Fame level. NOBODY. Jordan elevated Pippen, without a doubt. Magic can get credit for Worthy. Zeke pushed Dumars to the HOF level. (LeBron - nobody).

But nobody elevated his teammates any greater than Bird did. Basically got THREE other longtime teammates to the Hall of Fame.

And all while wearing crappy shoes.

OH, and And AND Bird played lights-out defense, something Kobe never did.
 
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ColoradoCane said:
Yep. Jordan and Kobe IMO are interchangeable at 1a and 1b. Hard to pick one over the other. Both were ruthless when it came to finishing things.
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Strongly disagree. Jordan >>>> bryant

kobe was closest stylistically but just not as good
 
HighSeas said:
The most competitive players are the ones who play hard on both ends every night.

Not many qualify right now. Adebayo, Gobert, Lowry, CP3, etc.

Kobe did not compete on D consistently enough to the level of being that kind of competitor. He crafted an image/character that created the perception of it. Westbrook has done the same. Kobe also had playoff games where he was doggin it or refused to score or pass out of spite.

His death was tragic on many levels but let's not whitewash his career.
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Kobe was 9x First team All Defense & 1,944 steals, putting him at 16th all-time in steals.

He was also 4th all-time in Playoff scoring & 5th in most 40 point games in the playoffs.

He & Westbrook are nothing alike, not remotely close.
 
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I got Kobe somewhere 9-12 on my list...

He played stylistically like Jordan, just missed so many more shots than Jordan and the stats bear that out.

I wouldn't argue with top 8...I would argue vehemently with all this top 5 nonsense.
 
HighSeas said:
T

e. Kobe also had playoff games where he was doggin it or refused to score or pass out of spite.
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This...He was known to pull some downright pouting, crybaby ***** **** at times...Overall his is greatness is respected. Awesome career...But man it's some selective memory this week looking back at his career.
 
Sully said:
To many young un's around here never saw MJ play and are drinking the Kobe Kool aid. Was he great, yes absolutely. Was he in MJ's class... **** no! Horace Grant left the Bulls and went to Magic in part because Michael humiliated him in practice on a regular basis because he didn't think he played hard enough and was soft. Jordan's competitive drive is legendary and to compare him to Kobe is plain foolish.
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Kobe did the same thing to JR Rider in practice, actually ended his career.
 
skeeter said:
I got Kobe somewhere 9-12 on my list...

He played stylistically like Jordan, just missed so many more shots than Jordan and the stats bear that out.

I wouldn't argue with top 8...I would argue vehemently with all this top 5 nonsense.
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He took more long range shots than Jordan, hence the high volume of misses.

If he maintained the same mid-range game their efficiency numbers would've been similar.
 
Liberty City El said:



Kobe did the same thing to JR Rider in practice, actually ended his career.
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I mean...JR Rider didn't guard a soul his whole life.
Liberty City El said:
He took more long range shots than Jordan, hence the high volume of misses.

If he maintained the same mid-range game their efficiency numbers would've been similar.
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Nah, Even if use adjusted eFG...He's still almost a 3 full percentage points behind...That's a long way. The gap between the two inside the arc is significant. Jordan was way better Asst/TO too...Not just by a little bit.

Close stylistically, Jordan just better. That isn't disrespect, I just feel strongly there's a gap.
 
HighSeas said:
The most competitive players are the ones who play hard on both ends every night.

Not many qualify right now. Adebayo, Gobert, Lowry, CP3, etc.

Kobe did not compete on D consistently enough to the level of being that kind of competitor. He crafted an image/character that created the perception of it. Westbrook has done the same. Kobe also had playoff games where he was doggin it or refused to score or pass out of spite.

His death was tragic on many levels but let's not whitewash his career.
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LOWRY, KYLE LOWRY!!!!! 😂😂😂, cant believe you just said this.
 
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Liberty City El said:
Kobe was 9x First team All Defense & 1,944 steals, putting him at 16th all-time in steals.

He was also 4th all-time in Playoff scoring & 5th in most 40 point games in the playoffs.

He & Westbrook are nothing alike, not remotely close.
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Kobe Bryant averaged 1.4 steals per game.

Larry Bird averaged 1.7 steals per game, a 20% higher rate. Playing in 350 fewer games Bird is fewer than 400 steals behind Kobe.

Magic Johnson averaged 1.9 steals per game.

Michael Jordan averaged 2.3 steals per game.

Perspective.
 
skeeter said:
I mean...JR Rider didn't guard a soul his whole life.


Nah, Even if use adjusted eFG...He's still almost a 3 full percentage points behind...That's a long way. The gap between the two inside the arc is significant. Jordan was Asst/TO not close either.

Close stylistically, Jordan just better. That isn't disrespect, I just feel strongly there's a gap.
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I don't disagree that Jordan is better, I'm just saying yall in here talking like Kobe was Bonzi Wells or some shìt.

The way people try to talk down on him is crazy to me, especially when ask any player that had to deal with him in the prime of his career & they all routinely resoundingly say he was hands down the best player in the league in his era.

No one is arguing that he was better than MJ, but mf'ers in here talking about Tim Duncan & Larry Bird, like seriously lol **** even MJ himself says the only one that could beat him was Kobe.
 
i hated michael jordan (still think he's a massive douchebag), but the man is the goat for a reason. you'd be hard-pressed to find a modern athlete in his realm of competitiveness from any sport. dude held a grudge with his high school coach long enough to fly him in and give him **** at his hall of fame induction.

kobe was one of the greatest to ever step on the court, but i would take jordan's competitive drive over anyone's.
 
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