OT: Give me some MJ!

[Poptimus]

I've been watching basketball since '91 and Jordan is the best I've ever seen. When you watched the Bulls from 1991 until Jordan left, there was never a game, let alone a series where you expected them to lose. Never.

LeBron really tarnished his legacy by team hopping and then going 3-5 in the Finals. It's just not something Jordan would ever do, either of those. And you expected LeBron to lose many times. I can't really say I ever expected Kobe to lose, but the reason why MJ gets the nod over Kobe is he was a slightly better player, didn't have a dominant sidekick like Shaq (Pippen was no Shaq on the Lakers type of dominant player), and he has more rings.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Michael Jordan is the best athlete ever to play competitive sports.

17) There were five seasons in which Jordan led the NBA in both Player Efficiency Rating and usage percentage. All other players in NBA history have combined to do it four times, with no other player doing it more than once.

 

[305to954]

WHO GIVES AF ABOUT 3 PT SHOOTING WHEN I'M GETTING BUCKETS? TF??

Swear Demar Derozan been tryna tell ****** this for years

 

[305to954]

I've been watching basketball since '91 and Jordan is the best I've ever seen. When you watched the Bulls from 1991 until Jordan left, there was never a game, let alone a series where you expected them to lose. Never.

LeBron really tarnished his legacy by team hopping and then going 3-5 in the Finals. It's just not something Jordan would ever do, either of those. And you expected LeBron to lose many times. I can't really say I ever expected Kobe to lose, but the reason why MJ gets the nod over Kobe is he was a slightly better player, didn't have a dominant sidekick like Shaq (Pippen was no Shaq on the Lakers type of dominant player), and he has more rings.

Basketball a team sport tho. Kobe came in paired with shaq and Phil. After they left kobe wasn’t making no playoff run until he got Phil and gasol and the crew. MJ was not making runs without Phil, Scottie and a crew...Lebron played for 2 franchises..with bum coaches most the time. His best coach was Spoeltra who mofos in Florida wanted gone..he made the finals with a two 2k generic coach’s in David Blatt and Mike Brown. He won games in the finals with Mathew Delladova as his point guard. He made a finals run with Ilgauskis and larry Hughes as his 2nd and 3rd next option..Cuh left Cleveland, they get they to draft the 4th pick that offseason and make the lottery the very next year. The heat went from a dynasty to irrelevant. The lakers went from “**** we have so much young talent“ but couldn’t sniff the playoffs to one game out of the 2seed in the west and curb stomping the Dubs on Christmas Day until one man went down for a month and they couldn’t hold they heads above water...cuh took J.R Smith, Iman Shumpert from the Knicks and a with them. Bron had Timothy mozgof looking like a NBA player. He made use of Kevin love..he had kyrie winning

all bigs not included..Lebron and MJ are the best to ever do it..followed by
Kobe magic n bird..don’t bring up guys who never made a Jumper into the GOAT at any position

 

[For_The_U]

Birds first year in Boston he had the biggest turn around in franchise history. The second year they won a championship I laugh at that early year talk.
Jordan didn't just lose a bunch he lost for 7 years before he won anything, by then all the great players were old, Injured or retired. The 63 point game was a double overtime game, yup he played great but didn't get it done late.

This is a fun topic but you're a conservative I still love ya! You're right everyone has their great players, I have a bunch of them over Jordan in a draft though. This is what I remember the most about Jordan. I moved to Florida after Bird won his last ship, his back limited him after that. The 9 minute mark is great. lol

So many stories in that old dump Boston Garden but the greatest place to watch a BB game I've ever seen. How do you pick Jordan over Jabbar, Magic, Wilt, Bird who were much better team players than Jordan. Jordan had a tougher time in the 80's because it was ruff as ****. In the 90's the game had changed to fit Jordan's style. Jordan just couldn't win against those teams. Detroit had one of the worst centers of a championship team but still beat Jordan twice.

It's easier to rate players by position. Jordan would still come in second to Magic to me. I saw both play personally many times well just about every time in Boston Garden up till 88 or so. I'm talking about how they played at peak obviously Jordan played better for longer. Magic was on another level with passing. I loved his game great team player.

Great post. You clearly love the game. Watching those Celtics teams you reference was part of my childhood. Bird, McHale, DJ, The Chief, Ainge, they were such a phenomenal squad together. Worthy is an under appreciated great. An argument can be made for Kareem as GOAT. I loved me some Magic Johnson! I dont know what we're really arguing here. All great players. Jordan just had something different to me, an innate ability to rise to the moment. As a kid, he delivered for me over and over again. And what he achieved on the defensive side of the floor was just incredible, and definitely not appreciated enough.

But again, these are all legends. Long live 80s and 90s basketball!

 

[Poptimus]

Basketball a team sport tho. Kobe came in paired with shaq and Phil. After they left kobe wasn’t making no playoff run until he got Phil and gasol and the crew. MJ was not making runs without Phil, Scottie and a crew...Lebron played for 2 franchises..with bum coaches most the time. His best coach was Spoeltra who mofos in Florida wanted gone..he made the finals with a two 2k generic coach’s in David Blatt and Mike Brown. He won games in the finals with Mathew Delladova as his point guard. He made a finals run with Ilgauskis and larry Hughes as his 2nd and 3rd next option..Cuh left Cleveland, they get they to draft the 4th pick that offseason and make the lottery the very next year. The heat went from a dynasty to irrelevant. The lakers went from “**** we have so much young talent“ but couldn’t sniff the playoffs to one game out of the 2seed in the west and curb stomping the Dubs on Christmas Day until one man went down for a month and they couldn’t hold they heads above water...cuh took J.R Smith, Iman Shumpert from the Knicks and a with them. Bron had Timothy mozgof looking like a NBA player. He made use of Kevin love..he had kyrie winning

all bigs not included..Lebron and MJ are the best to ever do it..followed by
Kobe magic n bird..don’t bring up guys who never made a Jumper into the GOAT at any position

Coaches and front office staff don’t win championships or lose championships in the NBA. Funny how Phil sucked with the Knicks as president and suddenly Popovich sucks without Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. It’s all about the players. LeBron can’t pin blame on the coaches for his failures in the Finals.

LeBron should never lost to the Mavs in the Finals with a way more talented squad. The Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row if Jordan didn’t retire in ‘94.

 

[For_The_U]

Pretty hard to compare athletes from different sports. Love Barry Sanders probably couldn't play BB, but Jordan couldn't have played football either. I'd probably say Wilt is the best Athlete to ever play Basketball. Stronger, better leaper, better at a lot of things. I think D Wilkins was every bit as athletic as Jordan probably a better jumper not as good as player though. Dr J is in there too. Do you think Jordan in his prime could beat Wilt in his prime one on one? Really? lol

No, bigger guys dominate in one on one.

It's funny you bring up Dominque like that. I was always a big fan of that dude and I too often wondered if he was equally as talented as Jordan. There were times it sure seemed like it. It just never clicked around him and all came together. Simar to Barry Sanders wasted talent in Detroit.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Those stats don't show the 17 games in a row Chicago lost to Boston, I think Jordan was a part of 12 of them. lol I was in Boston Garden for every game he played there until like 88. Those stats don't show Boston and Detroit eating Jordans lunch for his fist 7 years as a pro. We had fun with Jordan with the over rated chant.

Jodan didn't win the big one until all the great players retired or got old. I would take Magic Johnson over Jordan every single time. LA was theBiggest game in Boston never missed it. Jordan came in it's like ok lets go watch jordan score his 35 and lose. Bird made sure of that in the last 10 minutes of the game when it mattered. Jordan always choked and we knew itl LMAO Sorry many of you guys didn't get to see real basketball played in the 80's.

Is that before or after Larry said he played against "god disguised as Michael Jordan"

 

[305to954]

Coaches and front office staff don’t win championships or lose championships in the NBA. Funny how Phil sucked with the Knicks as president and suddenly Popovich sucks without Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. It’s all about the players. LeBron can’t pin blame on the coaches for his failures in the Finals.

LeBron should never lost to the Mavs in the Finals with a way more talented squad. The Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row if Jordan didn’t retire in ‘94.

Lebron sucked in the 2011 finals and wasn’t assertive enough. Now I could aslo argue that Dallas mavs is the most underrated finals champ ever..you saw what they did to KD and a prime Kobe

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Kobe came in paired with shaq and Phil. After they left kobe wasn’t making no playoff run until he got Phil and gasol and the crew. MJ was not making runs without Phil, Scottie and a crew...

Phil was overrated.

Tex Winters, the creator of The Triangle, was the driving force behind those Bulls & Lakers teams.

Phil NEVER won without Tex, look it up.

 

[Rellyrell]

Ok I'll give you that but he didn't get enough buckets his first 7 years to beat the best teams. Now if he could have shot better than .182 from 3 point land back then in 86-87 maybe they would have done better. Looks like That was a high for Jordan his first 4 years. lol Even Corzine the center was better in 86. Shows he had a bad weakness. Shot 48% for his 37 point average his best year. .182 for 3 pointers. I wonder how many other players could have done that if they took that many shots?

Why r u so stuck on him shooting .182 from three early on? He wasn’t a 3 point shooter early in his career. Like ur obsession w this is utterly ridiculous. Had he shot .220 from 3, his teams would’ve still lost. If he shot .333 from 3, his teams would’ve still lost. If he shot .450 from 3, his teams would’ve still lost. Notice how I’m emphasizing team.

U continue to dodge the fact that Bird had 3 other HOFers in his starting line up, another HOF coming off the bench, and Magic had 3 other HOFers in his starting line up, and all-stars coming off the bench.

Again, let’s talk context. Even the yr Dr J finally got his ring, he had two HOFers w him in Mo Cheeks and the original man-child, Moses Malone, and a perennial all star in Bobby Jones. MJ lost early b/c it was MJ and scrubs. It wasn’t until Pippen, Grant, and BJ Armstrong came to town that he finally had some help. Once MJ got a little help, it was a wrap. Mind u, all those players were drafted by Chicago.

 

[Rellyrell]

Not arguing for me at all this is fun time. I guess I probably watched live Jordan and all the best players up until the 88 season and Jordan didn't rise at the end of big games. He got worse in most cases against Boston. In the last ten minutes Bird would be the one that usually put the game away. Even the game where Jordan scored 63 he had chances to win the game he choked as usual.

You probably watched Jordan more of the 91 on when my favorite players were older, injured or retired. I stopped watching after that. That's when the game started changing where Jordan could win. If you go back and watch his first 7 years he didn't deliver. On D he tried to guard Bird all the time it was a riot. Bird totally destroyed him. Jordan was a bag of Bones Bird abused him on offense. Huge difference between his first seven and the rest. I'm not lying when I say the garden broke out in the Over Rated chant almost every time he played there. In fact I don't remember Jordan ever winning in Boston in those first years. Might have I just don't remember if he did.

Jordan wasn't even close to being the biggest draw in those years. LA was by far the hardest ticket to get. Philly was second because of Dr J. Detroit, they were a nasty *** team great game all the time, even D Wilkins was more fun to watch than Jordan because he did a better job with Bird on some nights and he was a power dunker unlike Jordan. Go watch some of those old games in Boston garden you will see the truth. There were some monster centers in the 80's too, fun to watch like DD breaking backboards lol. But this brings back great memories thanks for that.....

Being that I grew up right around the corner from The Original Forum, Jerry Buss did a heck of a job in creating The Showtime Lakers. ****, it could be argued Jerry Buss along w Bird, and Magic saved the NBA from extinction. But u r absolutely out of your mind to think Jordan wasn’t thee biggest attraction. Bird & Magic made the game great in the U.S, MJ made the game great around the world.

U’re living in an biased bubble. I was born in Chicago, grew up in Inglewood (where The Forum is and soon to be new home of the Clippers), and grew up in Compton. This was during the height of LA Showtime, and mofos were eager to see MJ on TV or if he came to town, ninjas stood in line 4 hrs prior to just to see the team bus pull up to get an autograph.

And u say MJ wasn’t clutch b/c he lost a couple of playoff games? Go ask Cleveland fans how clutch he was against them. Go ask Nique & Hawk fans how clutch MJ was. Go ask NYK fans PRIOR to their rivalry how clutch MJ was. Go ask Milwaukee fans how clutch MJ was. Go listen to Bird say when he played against MJ it was like playing against Jesus. Lol.

Again, if u wanna nick pick MJ not having a 3 point shot early in his career, I mean....I guess. The 3 point shot wasn’t even that popular in the early 80’s. Lol. That’s what’s so funny about ur argument to discredit him.

 

[Rellyrell]

The year before Bird 29-53 The next year 61-21. I think it was the second best turn around ever. He did it with a bunch of old players and Max. Won their division lost in Con finals. Before Jordan 27-55. Jordans first year 38-44. Before Dr J NY Nets, 30-54 After Dr J 55-29 won finals. Since you brought up the Doctor! MJ was never the greatest player of all time. lol

Irish Scotch will make any man drunk. Lol

 

[305to954]

Phil was overrated.

Tex Winters, the creator of The Triangle, was the driving force behind those Bulls & Lakers teams.

Phil NEVER won without Tex, look it up.

Phil went beyond Xs n Os..for the same reason Mike Dan Antoni revolutionized basketballs but wont win a ring ..it’s not all about systems when it comes to being a b-ball coach..all of Phil’s former players swear by him

 

[CaneOil]

Being that I grew up right around the corner from The Original Forum, Jerry Buss did a heck of a job in creating The Showtime Lakers. ****, it could be argued Jerry Buss along w Bird, and Magic saved the NBA from extinction. But u r absolutely out of your mind to think Jordan wasn’t thee biggest attraction. Bird & Magic made the game great in the U.S, MJ made the game great around the world.

U’re living in an biased bubble. I was born in Chicago, grew up in Inglewood (where The Forum is and soon to be new home of the Clippers), and grew up in Compton. This was during the height of LA Showtime, and mofos were eager to see MJ on TV or if he came to town, ninjas stood in line 4 hrs prior to just to see the team bus pull up to get an autograph.

And u say MJ wasn’t clutch b/c he lost a couple of playoff games? Go ask Cleveland fans how clutch he was against them. Go ask Nique & Hawk fans how clutch MJ was. Go ask NYK fans PRIOR to their rivalry how clutch MJ was. Go ask Milwaukee fans how clutch MJ was. Go listen to Bird say when he played against MJ it was like playing against Jesus. Lol.

Again, if u wanna nick pick MJ not having a 3 point shot early in his career, I mean....I guess. The 3 point shot wasn’t even that popular in the early 80’s. Lol. That’s what’s so funny about ur argument to discredit him.

I'm telling you Jordan wasn't even close to being the biggest draw. The lakers were 10 times harder to get than any other ticket, period. I got mine the first day the window opened. I got all of my tickets on that first day. I sold some too. Jordan was at least 4th down on the list like I said. Magic & Bird made the game great again yes.

So you were a Chicago fan for his first 7 years to right? What did you think of Jordan getting his *** kicked by Boston so many times in a row? LMAO

''And u say MJ wasn’t clutch b/c he lost a couple of playoff games?''

No because every game up until 87-88 season I don't remember Jordan winning ever in Boston Garden, I think Chicago won one in Hartford. He choke @ every home game I can remember even the 63 point double over time game. 86-87 Boston won 9 straight both home and away. Swept them in the playoffs too. You Chicago fans are just unrealistic, he got his *** kicked over and over and over again by Boston at home and mostly away too.

Did you fall asleep for Jordans first 7 years? lol Jordan sure an **** wasn't Clutch against Boston for the games up until 88 when I left for Florida. Bird was clutch against Chicago in the last 10 min of most of their games. Jordan folded like an accordion. Watch the games. lol I don't care about games after 88, the great Boston players were old, hurt or retired and even then after Boston abused him so did Detroit for a couple of years. lol Not sure why you deny this, just go back and watch the games. Jordan dominating everyone was a myth.

The game went into woosie mode in the 90's so he could win. Nike and the NBA had to crack down so their money man could win.

 

[Rellyrell]

I'm telling you Jordan wasn't even close to being the biggest draw. The lakers were 10 times harder to get than any other ticket, period. I got mine the first day the window opened. I got all of my tickets on that first day. I sold some too. Jordan was at least 4th down on the list like I said. Magic & Bird made the game great again yes.

So you were a Chicago fan for his first 7 years to right? What did you think of Jordan getting his *** kicked by Boston so many times in a row? LMAO

''And u say MJ wasn’t clutch b/c he lost a couple of playoff games?''

No because every game up until 87-88 season I don't remember Jordan winning ever in Boston Garden, I think Chicago won one in Hartford. He choke @ every home game I can remember even the 63 point double over time game. 86-87 Boston won 9 straight both home and away. Swept them in the playoffs too. You Chicago fans are just unrealistic, he got his *** kicked over and over and over again by Boston at home and mostly away too.

Did you fall asleep for Jordans first 7 years? lol Jordan sure an **** wasn't Clutch against Boston for the games up until 88 when I left for Florida. Bird was clutch against Chicago in the last 10 min of most of their games. Jordan folded like an accordion. Watch the games. lol I don't care about games after 88, the great Boston players were old, hurt or retired and even then after Boston abused him so did Detroit for a couple of years. lol Not sure why you deny this, just go back and watch the games. Jordan dominating everyone was a myth.

The game went into woosie mode in the 90's so he could win. Nike and the NBA had to crack down so their money man could win.

Alright brotha; I like u dude. I love all of my Boston fans, b/c their passion is 2nd to none. Listen, I’m one of the biggest Bird fan there is. It irks me that LBJ get puts ahead of him. To your point, both Bird & Magic drastically changed their respective franchises over night. I know ur not a fan of 90’s b-ball, but you me 80’s - 90’s produces the best games, rivalries, and iconic players. (No disrespect to the early great 60’s Celt, Minneapolis Lakes, or Philadelphia Warrior teams).

But ur discredit of MJ b/c he struggled as a young guy against arguably the best assembled team in the Eastern Conference of all time is laughable.

 

[CaneOil]

Alright brotha; I like u dude. I love all of my Boston fans, b/c their passion is 2nd to none. Listen, I’m one of the biggest Bird fan there is. It irks me that LBJ get puts ahead of him. To your point, both Bird & Magic drastically changed their respective franchises over night. I know ur not a fan of 90’s b-ball, but you me 80’s - 90’s produces the best games, rivalries, and iconic players. (No disrespect to the early great 60’s Celt, Minneapolis Lakes, or Philadelphia Warrior teams).

But ur discredit of MJ b/c he struggled as a young guy against arguably the best assembled team in the Eastern Conference of all time is laughable.

Yes I loved Bird and all of those Celtics but he would not be my first pick in a draft either. I'm just showing you Jordan was not close to being the best ever. It wasn't just early on it was for 7 years that nobody want's to hear about. It would probably be Jabbar, I saw what he did against Boston while he wasn't in his prime. Unstoppable if he got ****ed off. Wilt second, Magic, then Bird.

Jordan didn't really struggle against those Boston and Detroit teams, he just choked late in the games where the best players didn't. The last 6 minutes are where the games are won or lost most of the time. I like you too we have good BB conversations, it's all in a days fun. In his prime one on one do you think Jordan beats any of those guys? They could just back him down every time and it's over. I've always liked the bigger guys over small guys. Jordan was a great guard in my top two for most athletic ever to play the game.

 

[Rellyrell]

Yes I loved Bird and all of those Celtics but he would not be my first pick in a draft either. I'm just showing you Jordan was not close to being the best ever. It wasn't just early on it was for 7 years that nobody want's to hear about. It would probably be Jabbar, I saw what he did against Boston while he wasn't in his prime. Unstoppable if he got ****ed off. Wilt second, Magic, then Bird.

Jordan didn't really struggle against those Boston and Detroit teams, he just choked late in the games where the best players didn't. The last 6 minutes are where the games are won or lost most of the time. I like you too we have good BB conversations, it's all in a days fun. In his prime one on one do you think Jordan beats any of those guys? They could just back him down every time and it's over. I've always liked the bigger guys over small guys. Jordan was a great guard in my top two for most athletic ever to play the game.

Do u not watch today’s basketball at all? I saw u mention u stopped watching after the 80’s. I admit, I’m still more enamored with the 80’s and 90’s, but I still like basketball in general

 

[Rellyrell]

Do u not watch today’s basketball at all? I saw u mention u stopped watching after the 80’s. I admit, I’m still more enamored with the 80’s and 90’s, but I still like basketball in general

Well, the collegiate game has been up & down the last several yrs simply b/c too many 1 & dones that’s not growing the game like yesteryear.

 

[For_The_U]

You tell me all I need to know when you say you quit really watching in 91, @CaneOil

So you're basically judging Michael on his level of greatness by looking at only the period he was wearing cursive lettering on his jersey and rocking a gold chain while facing several of the greatest teams to ever exist with nothing but a handful dudes from the local Y for teammates. Yes, Chicago struggled mightily during that time period because the team around him was straight trash. Worth noting, he also took that trash team into the playoffs. Was Bird (one of THE greatest offensive players to ever hold a basketball) able to work over a young Michael? Yep. Bird worked over a lot of dudes in his career. No shame in that whatsoever. Bird also went into every game against Mike with about a 5 vs 0 ratio of hall of famers around him.

But Mike stayed in Chicago, worked with what they gave him, and from the moment you quit following, Michael lead his Bulls to 6 straight titles in 6 straight attempts and was downright spectacular in all of those playoffs. IMO, if his dad hadnt been murdered and he didn't step away from the game, it would have been 8 in a row.

So yeah, you kinda missed out on the part of Mike's career that makes him GOAT for most.