OT: Give me some MJ!

[SWFLHurricane]

There is a New Documentary coming out next yr about Lebron....Highly Anticipated.....

 

[cane_boi]

Jerry Krause was the Chicago Bulls version of Donna Shalala. A short, fat, ugly egotistical tyrant who ended up killing a dynasty.

 

[AlphaMarshan]

What gets me more than anything, listening to Jordan talk, is how nothing mattered more than winning. Even listening to him talk about Scottie, he felt Scottie was being selfish because all that matters is the team and winning. That's it. All he ever wanted to do was win. If you weren't there to help him win, then he'd score 60 points if he had to.

Another thing that stood out is that he knew coming in as a rookie that he had no voice and had to prove himself - how many kids going into the NBA today feel like this? None. They all come into the league thinking they deserve the most money and their own clothing lines without having ever taken a shot. Jordan always felt like you had to earn it and held himself to that standard as well.

 

[South Side Chi Cane]

LOL! Exact same, my man. Those 90s Bulls/Knicks battles are my favorite basketball games to this day. But **** did I hate those Knicks!!

The presentation of one of those series on MJ's "Air Time" video is all time epic. I watch it several times a year. Every year. LOL

Yep, the championships were anticlimactic if you can believe that.

 

[South Side Chi Cane]

Those stats don't show the 17 games in a row Chicago lost to Boston, I think Jordan was a part of 12 of them. lol I was in Boston Garden for every game he played there until like 88. Those stats don't show Boston and Detroit eating Jordans lunch for his fist 7 years as a pro. We had fun with Jordan with the over rated chant.

Jodan didn't win the big one until all the great players retired or got old. I would take Magic Johnson over Jordan every single time. LA was theBiggest game in Boston never missed it. Jordan came in it's like ok lets go watch jordan score his 35 and lose. Bird made sure of that in the last 10 minutes of the game when it mattered. Jordan always choked and we knew itl LMAO Sorry many of you guys didn't get to see real basketball played in the 80's.

Bull****, plenty of great players still left in early and mid 90’s.

 

[South Side Chi Cane]

Young guys. Boy I love you all.

Fortunately for me, I'm not an old head that's going to wag it's finger at you.

So check it out, my g....let me educate you a bit:

The NBA rosters today are filled with guys who are definitely more skilled. The NBA rosters of tomorrow are going to filled with guys more skilled than those of today, and the NBA rosters 30 yrs from now are going to be filled with guys more skilled than guys of tomorrow. That's how evolution works. There will be more data to go by and expand upon.

Why are big men better at shooting 3's today than yesterday? Well, b/c big men were taught all their lives to go down in the post, and if you were caught dead shooting anywhere from outside of 10-12 feet, you were being benched and chewed out. The jump shot was for the "little guys." Olajuwon, Robinson, and Ewing started to develop the 15-18 ft jump game, which was absolutely unheard of for a guy who was 6'10 and above. Then some guys from Europe came over to the NBA...Detlef Schrempf, Arvydas Sabonis, Vlade Divac...guys who were over 6'10 but they running fast breaks, passing, and shooting 3's. They evolved the game for big men, eventually, where big men just weren't some post up monsters, but they could shoot the ball like the little guys too.

Power forwards back in the day were considered power forwards b/c these were your enforcers. These guys did the dirty work, and could score down low. Then guys like Shawn Kemp came around who ran like a deer, guys like Shereef Abdur-Rahim, guys like Kevin Garnett....guys who were considered PF based on their builds, but also could dribble and run like a SF.

The game has evolved b/c the game has changed. Jerry West would probably avg. more ppg than MJ if a 3 point arc was around. If you played ball from the 50-70's, you would be absolutely reamed around the neck from taking a long shot b/c it was of no value. A two pointer was a two pointer. So shooting from distance was designed for the guy who wasn't quick enough or athletic enough to hit rim. Guys like MJ, Magic, Dr J, Zeke, etc grew up where if you were a guard, you go to the hole. So even w/ the induction of the 3 pt arc in the 80's, for 20 yrs of their life, they were taught to go to the hole. Reggie Miller was the first superstar to really exploit and make the 3 pt cool. Even Bird preferred the mid range game although he could shoot it out the gym.

My point is, of course guys are going to be more skilled today b/c there's more data, more nutrition, more regimens, more camps, more film and examples to build upon. BUT skill does not mean, better. Today, if you are fortunate, your team runs about 2-3 stars deep, AT MOST. Back in the day, at any given time you would find 2-3 HOFers playing together, with another 2-3 all stars on the bench. Today, scoring 110 is a high scoring game: In 1983 Detroit v. Denver (186 - 184 final score). The highest mark in NBA history. Detroit in '83 avg. 117 ppg, and Denver in '83 avg. 123 ppg. Why? B/c roster 1 - 9 could all play ball. Guys weren't about the cross over, or doing it for the SC Top 10.....it was about putting the ball in the hole and letting you know I'm better than you. It was a badge of honor to be in the slam dunk competition as a super star, but now guys are too cool for that, afraid to face embarrassment. And that's the difference....your superstars today are too afraid to face adversity. They run at first sight of it. Guys like Kobe, A.I., RW, Tim Duncan will always be held to the same esteem as the 80's and 90's players b/c they stayed the course. So skill is just one part of it....if you ain't got that lion's heart, then who gives af about skill.

Right, I would put the 90’s bulls up against anyone and at anytime. ****, I would throw in the 80’s Lakers and Celtics, the late 89’s pistons and Nicks at anyone they got today. The little sissies today wouldn’t want to get on the court with Bill Cartwright, Patrick Ewing, Rick Mahorn, Robert Parrish, or Bill Lambier.

 

[South Side Chi Cane]

Over who??? Smh you must be crazy lmao..ice man aka ‘KD with no jumper’ ...did he have a jumper after 15 ft? ..he the finger roll king but he not even the greatest player in his franchises history

Forgive them Father!!! they know not what they say.

 

[PortvilleCane]

This whole topic is just a debate of personal opinions, of course. But "Jordan always choked"? What?!? Widely considered the most clutch player to ever play the game. You go down a list of his greatest games and about 90% of them are in the playoffs (most are in the Finals). That speaks volumes. Has there EVER been a player in the game's history you wanted the ball in the hands more with a few ticks left down one than Mike? I surely don't think so, and I believe I'd be firmly in the majority on that.

I grew up watching those great Lakers teams and those great Celtics teams. My father loved Larry like I loved Michael. I have immense appreciation for those greats, but none of them are quite like Michael Jordan, IMO. And even if (I've said this quote for 20 years and now it's a "when" not an if at this point) there is a more talented basketball player, it will be hard for any player to ever match the Hollywood-esque story arch of Michael Jordan's career. I mean things like him retiring because his father is murdered, only to return and win his next title... on Father's Day. Dunking on a tiny guard and having a heckler yell "Hey Michael, why don't you pick on someone your own size!".... only to dunk the ball right down the throat of Tree Rollins the next time down the court, returning to ask that heckler "Was that one big enough?". Cheesy stuff, I know, but that's all part of Mike's legacy. If you wrote his story in Hollywood, there are aspects that would be rejected as not realistic enough. All of that wraps into Michael Jordan's lore and makes his legacy a tough one to live up to, fair or not.

You jab at Michael for losing a bunch to Boston early in his career. LOL Really? Do you need to go back and look at those rosters? I watched all of those games as well. That Celtics team was one of the greatest TEAMS to ever play the game. Fact. And they were loaded with some greats of the era. Can you name me one other player off those 86-era Chicago teams? Most people couldn't. The only reason Chicago was even in that playoff game where he dumped 63 in the Garden was because of Michael Jordan (or "God disguised as Michael Jordan" as the great Larry Bird put it). Same with Detroit. It is laughable how much better those Bad Boy teams were than those early Chicago squads. Downright laughable. But unlike modern stars, Mike didn't bolt to go hookup with Clyde and 'Nique to get over the hump, he gritted his teeth and carried his teammates over that mountain himself. It's mind boggling to me that you use those early Chicago teams/defeats as a jab at Michael. If anything, they are building blocks on the bottom floor of what makes MJ, MJ.

Another fact: in an era dominated by big men, Michael went his entire career, and achieved all he did as a team, without ever playing with a dominant big man. Not once. What would Michael have done if he had a center alongside him like Ewing or even Parrish that the D had to focus on? It's hard to even wrap your mind around that. Instead, he had Curt Livingston, Will Purdue and Bill Cartwright.

But again, to each their own on this topic.

That’s it right there. Perfect post

 

[PortvilleCane]

Just a preview of what a big man does to a little man. lol Can you imagine how Jordan would do against Magic or Bird? Both would back him in and eat him up. Just like Bird did when the game was on the line.

Pete Maravich could beat anyone on the planet in one on one and horse. He did it in the 70s when the NBA sponsored horse and one on one competition for cash.So what’s the point.

Here we go;

Let me ask u, who was on Boston’s squad v Jordan’s squad? Who was on Magic’s squad v. Jordan’s squad? The moment MJ got ONE running mate, chit changed. He even admitted so often he would score all these points and his team would still lose and it ate at him. He was a one man squad. It was 1 on 8. Let’s add some context to this discussion b/c I constantly hear this from Boston & Laker fans

I’m an early 80’s baby, and I saw plenty of 80’s basketball. 80’s & 90’s are the two greatest decades in NBA history. But there’s a reason y Boston & LAL dominated the 80’s.....it wasn’t just b/c of Bird & Magic....it was b/c of McHale, Parrish, Bird & DJ on one squad v Magic, Worthy, The Cap, and Coop on the other squad. These mofos had 7 HOF players between them in their starting lineup, and let’s not talk about their benches! No other team had that!

Bob mcadoo coming off the bench lol I think both LA and Boston iir

 

[305to954]

Forgive them Father!!! they know not what they say.

Tim Duncan is the greatest player in spurs history fam..by a large margin too

 

[305to954]

Bull****, plenty of great players still left in early and mid 90’s.

Then players from the 80 were at the end of their careers tho. The stars of the 90s were the guys drafted
In the mid 80s..as far as the 80s teams, they were all broken up..you gotta remember in the 80s if you weren’t the Celtics, pistons, lakers or 76s you were not making the finals

 

[LuCane]

Pippen was a better all around player than Kawhi so far..with out question. Definitely a better athlete, better playmaker, better defender..I’ll give Kawhi the edge shooting/scoring but only slightly

I get a strong sense you watched at most a handful of games - maybe some highlights or condensed games. You're welcome to claim "youtube" all you want. I don't buy it. Your comment is even weirder because context-less stats don't even back you up.

 

[SWFLHurricane]

ROTFLMFAO at LeBron better than Jordan...
F-ing Hysterical....

 

[ajkreider]

Loved Bird, and was a Boston fan in the 80s (liked cornbread more, as a fan). He's probably even underrated a bit. If you go by Basketball Reference's Plus/Minus Box score rating - only 6 players led the league from 1973-2002, each at least 4 times:

Abdul-Jabbar
Erving
Bird
Jordan
Robinson
Shaq

But still, he wasn't near the player MJ was, and despite being a proud man (as all the greats are), he'd have no problem saying that himself.

 

[305to954]

I get a strong sense you watched at most a handful of games - maybe some highlights or condensed games. You're welcome to claim "youtube" all you want. I don't buy it. Your comment is even weirder because context-less stats don't even back you up.

All of Jordan’s playoff/finals games are on YouTube..Scottie pippen is no doubt a better passer, rebounder and defender. Those categories are just fact. Kawhis career high in assist is this year at 5..rebounds 7..pipp respectively was 7 and 9..there’s no debate in that..Kawhi as a scorer is better

 

[LuCane]

All of Jordan’s playoff/finals games are on YouTube..Scottie pippen is no doubt a better passer, rebounder and defender. Those categories are just fact. Kawhis career high in assist is this year at 5..rebounds 7..pipp respectively was 7 and 9..there’s no debate in that..Kawhi as a scorer is better

All of whatever can be anywhere you'd like to reference. I don't believe you've watched enough games in-depth. Cherry-picking career highs in individual categories without mentioning basic things like MVPs and DPOY honors Kawhi earned doesn't do much but show your flawed debating skills. I consider further discussion with you on this topic to be a waste of time. You're welcome to your opinion.

 

[305to954]

All of whatever can be anywhere you'd like to reference. I don't believe you've watched enough games in-depth. Cherry-picking career highs in individual categories without mentioning basic things like MVPs and DPOY honors Kawhi earned doesn't do much but show your flawed debating skills. I consider further discussion with you on this topic to be a waste of time. You're welcome to your opinion.

Talking about in depth then you act like pippen was along side Mj..you do know how rewards work? I’m not taking anything from Kawhi. Pippen averaged 20 plus multiple finals, led the bulls in assists multiple times while defending the top matchup and rebounding and facilitating that offense..u Acting like you didn’t see how pippen led the bulls when Mj walked away. Hey maybe you stopped paying attention when Mj walked. If it wasn’t for a bull**** call in the conference semis Game 6 they they move on..if you really sitting here acting like Kawhi was so much better then pippen then maybe you didn’t pay as much attention then you thought you did

 

[Rellyrell]

Pete Maravich could beat anyone on the planet in one on one and horse. He did it in the 70s when the NBA sponsored horse and one on one competition for cash.So what’s the point.

Bob mcadoo coming off the bench lol I think both LA and Boston iir

Lol

 

[305to954]

Lol

Pistol Pete

 

[LuCane]

Talking about in depth then you act like pippen was along side Mj..you do know how rewards work? I’m not taking anything from Kawhi. Pippen averaged 20 plus multiple finals, led the bulls in assists multiple times while defending the top matchup and rebounding and facilitating that offense..u Acting like you didn’t see how pippen led the bulls when Mj walked away. Hey maybe you stopped paying attention when Mj walked. If it wasn’t for a bull**** call in the conference semis Game 6 they they move on..if you really sitting here acting like Kawhi was so much better then pippen then maybe you didn’t pay as much attention then you thought you did

Yeah, that's it. I stopped paying attention to the Bulls games and your evidence is a collection of high level, basic comments about what happened - repeated a million times by people who never actually watched the games. You express yourself and reason like an LBJ-obsessed teenager on Instagram, so it makes this a chore. No thanks. Like I said, you're welcome to your opinions. G'luck.