OT: Give me some MJ!

[HurricaneHauk]

Name one series Jordan didn't show up even when they lost

MJ averaged 45 minutes, 50% FG, 6 rebounds, 5.7 assists and averaged 43.7 a game getting swept by Boston and people want to use that as an example to demean Jordan?

Lebron has had a joke of a conference to play in while he was with the Cavs and Heat

 

[supersaiyanshel]

17 7-7 on 48 percent short..in key moments in games it wasn’t just Lebron ******* up..spo with the lineups and rotations were more then questionable. Spo being stubborn to always play PG lineups when both PGs chalmers and Bibby were not bringing anything that series..wade had key turnovers down the stretch of game 5..and Lebron for whatever reason shots and touches went down..too me that’s the only stain on n his resume

Wade was the man that series. Something wasn't right with Lebron that Finals. I don't know what it was.

 

[King of Allapattah]

Name one series Jordan didn't show up even when they lost

MJ averaged 45 minutes, 50% FG, 6 rebounds, 5.7 assists and averaged 43.7 a game getting swept by Boston and people want to use that as an example to demean Jordan?

Lebron has had a joke of a conference to play in while he was with the Cavs and Heat

I agree. Game 1 vs Celtics (2008 Eastern semis) LBJ had 12 points. He went 2-18 from the field. In 2013 while with the Heat in Game 5 Conf finals vs Pacers, he scored 7 points. Went 2-10 in that one, while Paul George dropped 37 on him. And those are just 2 games that come to mind. There have been many more. Love the guy. Wish he would've finished his career in Miami, but no way is he the GOAT. Too many God-awful moments like these prevent him from being that.

 

[supersaiyanshel]

Name one series Jordan didn't show up even when they lost

MJ averaged 45 minutes, 50% FG, 6 rebounds, 5.7 assists and averaged 43.7 a game getting swept by Boston and people want to use that as an example to demean Jordan?

Lebron has had a joke of a conference to play in while he was with the Cavs and Heat

Also important to remember: He did this in HIS SECOND YEAR AGAINST 4 FUTURE HOF's.

Bron wasn't even in the playoffs his second year.

 

[305to954]

Wade was the man that series. Something wasn't right with Lebron that Finals. I don't know what it was.

I think it was gameplan tbh..they ran the O through Dwade. You look at the games and the box score that’s what comes up. And No problem with that but it didn’t work..games 3-5 were weird to say the least. But that’s the reason dwade stepped back

 

[Dghustla]

Smh man I’m not even tryna debate the MJ vs Bron..I think this documentary is gonna show just how much help and infrastructure Jordan in order to get those 6..from pippen doing the things Jordan was not as good as far as rebounding, taking on the best matchup and facilitating the O..also this theory that Phil’s presence was somehow overrated to boost Mj is about to get debunked..you wanna know how important Phil was to Mj ? The man walked away from the bulls without him

Stop LeBron is just not that guy man.

We can get into the DNA but the reality is that LeBron has refused to buy into anyOne and any team for more than 4 years. After Cleveland failed in his 1 stint he just keep jumping ship to younger and/or better teams. He doesn’t have the continuity and the rapport to have a “side kick”

I’m not even sold that LeBron is better than Kobe or Magic.

What ppl are missing in this that MJ was and is still the most electric and entertaining basketball player to ever Grace the floor.

His opposition never won final MVPs him.

No young buck every got famous playing against Mj.

Kawhi & Paul George became mega stars in the league by out performing Lebron or matching him.

Plus Jordan is a way better defender than Lebron. When LeBron left Miami he decided his didn’t want to be elite on both ends.

 

[Rellyrell]

I feel like Reinsdorf is skating alot of the blame simply by virtue of being alive and being able to deflect some of the narrative, but he's just as much to blame for Pippen's contract.

You don't tell someone not to sign a bad contract that YOU'RE offering them. You don't offer them the bad contract in the first place if you're an honorable person. Even then, if a guy has clearly outperformed his contract as Pippen did you find away to take care of him if you truly value him.

Straight good ol boy mentality that permeated through the NBA ownership group at the time. Same type of mentality that lead to Orlando losing Shaq. ****, Jordan wasn't even the highest paid player on the Bulls for some years.

MJ didn’t get broke off til his last 2 yrs. He was the first Super Max guy and he demanded it b/c Krause kept dangling rebuild around him. I can’t remember what article, but one magazine photo shopped MJ in a Knicks, Bulls, and Lakers jersey. This was in 1996; go look up the story of how MJ was “this“ close to being a Knick! A F’ing Knickerbocker!

Reinsdork is notoriously cheap, and provides loyalty to anyone who kisses his ***

 

[Rellyrell]

Yea that contract was bogus asf..but if pippen was getting paid accordingly I’m not sure the bulls would’ve been able have them depth...the way they treated the elf was ****ed up tho..from what I saw Lil ain’t really do **** to deserve all that..but on the Scottie pippen end I understand why he signed it but that’s why u gave a agent. At that time Scottie wasn’t in his prime. They had him locked into that bs deal all through his prime years

Reinsdorf could’ve did something about it, and chose not to. U heard what he said; once u sign a contract, don’t come talk to me again.

He’s a horse chit owner. My relative in Chicago is now on the legal team for the NBAPA. He’s an avid Bulls fan like me. Bruh, the stories of how LBJ was treated during his interview back in 2010 is unbelievable. There’s a reason y no big FA wants to come to Chicago. It’s not just the MJ shadow, it’s the black cloud from Reinsdork and his former cronies.

 

[305to954]

Stop LeBron is just not that guy man.

We can get into the DNA but the reality is that LeBron has refused to buy into anyOne and any team for more than 4 years. After Cleveland failed in his 1 stint he just keep jumping ship to younger and/or better teams. He doesn’t have the continuity and the rapport to have a “side kick”

I’m not even sold that LeBron is better than Kobe or Magic.

What ppl are missing in this that MJ was and is still the most electric and entertaining basketball player to ever Grace the floor.

His opposition never won final MVPs him.

No young buck every got famous playing against Mj.

Kawhi & Paul George became mega stars in the league by out performing Lebron or matching him.

Plus Jordan is a way better defender than Lebron. When LeBron left Miami he decided his didn’t want to be elite on both ends.

Lmaoo Paul George..u buggin..like I said before Mj and Lebron are my goats. My confirmation on that comes from hearing players from MJs era speak on Lebron and breaking down eachs game...you don’t have to **** on one or the other to prop either up. They’re at the top..by the way ppl thinking Drexler was better than Jordan was actually thing. Ppl saying Jordan couldn’t win before he got Phil and pippen became a all star was a thing..Jordan having off nights in playoffs and finals did happen. 1990 game 7 vs the pistons were Scottie played poor due to migraines and the bulls lost did happen. Jordan getting stripped clean against the magic in 1995 game 6 did happen..I know ppl have burned these moments from their memories but they all happened

 

[Rellyrell]

I don't get why Scottie himself doesn't get more blame. Has to be a new generation thing. He always came off like a kid who never matured. You signed the deal, bud. You specifically wanted long-term security because he knew his feet and back were a mess.

His argument was he outplayed the contract and he has family to take care of? Exactly like the emotional appeals we hear these days from Leveon Bell and such. Get your **** together. Make better decisions.

And, I don't believe he was ever a Top 5 player in the NBA. That **** is make believe and now perpetuated by the Lebron squad as a way to downplay Jordan. I even recently saw a Lebronite write in Pip as a Top 25 all time player. I believe Pip was definitely a Top 10ish player in the L for a period.

Blasphemy. Lol.

I agree, Pip had some maturity issues, and maybe it was due to a kid w/ humble beginning who went to a NAIA school and became a super star. 1994 is my fondest memory of Pip having maturity issues. He had the chance to be the man, and by all accounts, 94 was Pips best year as an all around player. Then the 94 Playoffs against NYK and the Kukoc incident where he wanted the last shot, but they gave it to Toni instead and refused to come in the game. For sure he had maturity issues.

But don't get it twisted, Pip was a top 5 player. He played both ways and he played both ways extremely well. Lock down defender and give u 21-22/night. Guys like him and Jimmy Buckets are guys I roll w/. Self made, that play both ends.

 

[King of Allapattah]

Lmaoo Paul George..u buggin..like I said before Mj and Lebron are my goats. My confirmation on that comes from hearing players from MJs era speak on Lebron and breaking down eachs game...you don’t have to **** on one or the other to prop either up. They’re at the top..by the way ppl thinking Drexler was better than Jordan was actually thing. Ppl saying Jordan couldn’t win before he got Phil and pippen became a all star was a thing..Jordan having off nights in playoffs and finals did happen. 1990 game 7 vs the pistons were Scottie played poor due to migraines and the bulls lost did happen. Jordan getting stripped clean against the magic in 1995 game 6 did happen..I know ppl have burned these moments from their memories but they all happened

@Dghustla makes a great point. In 2013, while playing with the Heat in Game 5 of the Eastern Conf finals vs Pacers, Lebron scored 7 points. He shot 2-10 from the field in that game, while Paul George dropped 37pts on him. Not throwing shade at LBJ, just pointing out some facts. I agree with you there's no reason to s*** on LBJ, but let's not s*** on Jordan neither. Saying he ain't the GOAT is like s******* on him

 

[MyKidIsLoggedIn2MyAccount]

Stop LeBron is just not that guy man.

We can get into the DNA but the reality is that LeBron has refused to buy into anyOne and any team for more than 4 years. After Cleveland failed in his 1 stint he just keep jumping ship to younger and/or better teams. He doesn’t have the continuity and the rapport to have a “side kick”

I’m not even sold that LeBron is better than Kobe or Magic.

What ppl are missing in this that MJ was and is still the most electric and entertaining basketball player to ever Grace the floor.

His opposition never won final MVPs him.

No young buck every got famous playing against Mj.

Kawhi & Paul George became mega stars in the league by out performing Lebron or matching him.

Plus Jordan is a way better defender than Lebron. When LeBron left Miami he decided his didn’t want to be elite on both ends.

Lebron is great but you nailed a lot of it here.

I always laugh when people talk about his consecutive finals appearances in comparison to Jordan who had to wait until '91. Lebron was NOT getting to the finals many times either in that 80s east with the Celtics, Pistons, hawks, Bucks were even good, sixers. Sorry. No way. I'll say some of the heat teams would have occasionally made it, but not even close to 9 times.

The east Lebron got through minus the occasional Toronto every now and then was trash in comparison.

 

[LuCane]

Blasphemy. Lol.

I agree, Pip had some maturity issues, and maybe it was due to a kid w/ humble beginning who went to a NAIA school and became a super star. 1994 is my fondest memory of Pip having maturity issues. He had the chance to be the man, and by all accounts, 94 was Pips best year as an all around player. Then the 94 Playoffs against NYK and the Kukoc incident where he wanted the last shot, but they gave it to Toni instead and refused to come in the game. For sure he had maturity issues.

But don't get it twisted, Pip was a top 5 player. He played both ways and he played both ways extremely well. Lock down defender and give u 21-22/night. Guys like him and Jimmy Buckets are guys I roll w/. Self made, that play both ends.

There were other instances in the late 80s and early 90s as well re: the maturity issues.

We disagree on him ever being a Top 5 player. What years? I'm not trying to hate on Pip. Just trying to keep it real.

 

[Rellyrell]

There were other instances in the late 80s and early 90s as well re: the maturity issues.

We disagree on him ever being a Top 5 player. What years? I'm not trying to hate on Pip. Just trying to keep it real.

So I guess we need to establish what top player means.

If I’m going by Dream Team, since this was supposed to be the collection of thee best players, obviously I’m taking out Bird & Magic as they were both in retirement stages, but am I taking Malone over Pip? Nope. Am I taking Stockton over Pip? Nope. Mullen? Nope. The Admiral? Nope Ewing? Possibly Barkley? Probably. Clyde? Nope.

Two players left off the roster: Zeke? Nope. Hakeem? **** yes.

So Ewing, MJ, Barkley, Dream over Pip in his Prime.
Latter yrs, of course Penny, Shaq, AI, Kobe, and all the young guns were better than Pip, but from 90-96, Pip was a top 5 player regardless of position.

 

[LuCane]

So I guess we need to establish what top player means.

If I’m going by Dream Team, since this was supposed to be the collection of thee best players, obviously I’m taking out Bird & Magic as they were both in retirement stages, but am I taking Malone over Pip? Nope. Am I taking Stockton over Pip? Nope. Mullen? Nope. The Admiral? Nope Ewing? Possibly Barkley? Probably. Clyde? Nope.

Two players left off the roster: Zeke? Nope. Hakeem? **** yes.

So Ewing, MJ, Barkley, Dream over Pip in his Prime.
Latter yrs, of course Penny, Shaq, AI, Kobe, and all the young guns were better than Pip, but from 90-96, Pip was a top 5 player regardless of position.

All fair. Appreciate the rationales. We just disagree in our rankings. Even on that dream team, Magic was better. Ewing. Admiral. Stockton. Clyde. Malone. And, Barkley, who'd soon win MVP. I think Pip is beneath those guys. And, as you know, I'm a Bulls fan. Elite glue guy and elite defender. Better than what people know of Jimmy Buckets now, but not exactly Kawhi.

 

[Rellyrell]

All fair. Appreciate the rationales. We just disagree in our rankings. Even on that dream team, Magic was better. Ewing. Admiral. Stockton. Clyde. Malone. And, Barkley, who'd soon win MVP. I think Pip is beneath those guys. And, as you know, I'm a Bulls fan. Elite glue guy and elite defender. Better than what people know of Jimmy Buckets now, but not exactly Kawhi.

Definitely agree w your last statement

 

[BoxingRobes]

Think the Pro Pip crowd are also Bron stans, tbh.

He was great, but he's been elevated in the modern era to a respect I'm not sure he is owed.

btw - his contract was fine up to the CBA 95-96. As Reindorf said, it was the length of the deal that was ridiculous and that was Pip's fault.

Its obvious why he's mad you got KG coming into the league signing 100M deals. Jordan immediately became a 30M player, Patrick Ewing was caking at the top of the league...Horace Grant was like the second highest paid player in the league...but Pip was a bozo that signed a 7 year deal a few years out from a new CBA.

 

[305to954]

@Dghustla makes a great point. In 2013, while playing with the Heat in Game 5 of the Eastern Conf finals vs Pacers, Lebron scored 7 points. He shot 2-10 from the field in that game, while Paul George dropped 37pts on him. Not throwing shade at LBJ, just pointing out some facts. I agree with you there's no reason to s*** on LBJ, but let's not s*** on Jordan neither. Saying he ain't the GOAT is like s******* on him

I don’t remember a eastern conference game 5 vs in Ind where Lebron went 2-10 while pg put up 37..it definitely wasn’t 2013. I’ll put down any money and say that game y’all speaking of never happened lol, which furthers my point ....and Hold up bruh..I never said MJ wasn’t the GOAT.? If you say MJ over Lebron I’ve got no issues. But why bring up bad games in the Lebrons career to justify it as if Jordan Don’t have 5-19 in a NBA finals close out game and his team went on a run to close it out with Jordan on the bench during it..or 6-19 in a finals game from the same series ..or act like Orlando didn’t happen when Jordan absolutely had bad moments in that series..Lebron played and played through the 24 hour sports show era. Where a **** like skip bayless can get up with platform on a weekly basis and bring up 2011 and how Ray Allen saved Lebrons legacy. Every. ****. Week...Literally a handful of games ppl point out in a 17 year career...if you watch Jordan’s games and research you can find similar arguments..but for me I know what I saw from MJ and understand what I’m seeing from Lebron. They are the 2 goats. When Lebrons done there will be no denying his resume and impact.

 

[305to954]

All fair. Appreciate the rationales. We just disagree in our rankings. Even on that dream team, Magic was better. Ewing. Admiral. Stockton. Clyde. Malone. And, Barkley, who'd soon win MVP. I think Pip is beneath those guys. And, as you know, I'm a Bulls fan. Elite glue guy and elite defender. Better than what people know of Jimmy Buckets now, but not exactly Kawhi.

Pippen was a better all around player than Kawhi so far..with out question. Definitely a better athlete, better playmaker, better defender..I’ll give Kawhi the edge shooting/scoring but only slightly

 

[305to954]

Think the Pro Pip crowd are also Bron stans, tbh.

He was great, but he's been elevated in the modern era to a respect I'm not sure he is owed.

btw - his contract was fine up to the CBA 95-96. As Reindorf said, it was the length of the deal that was ridiculous and that was Pip's fault.

Its obvious why he's mad you got KG coming into the league signing 100M deals. Jordan immediately became a 30M player, Patrick Ewing was caking at the top of the league...Horace Grant was like the second highest paid player in the league...but Pip was a bozo that signed a 7 year deal a few years out from a new CBA.

Lol this that bull**** again Craig..man even MJ gives pippen his respect. Pippen was a top 5-10 player in the 90s no questions asked. But ppl still try to act like pippen wasn’t all that smh