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OT: Enjoy Oklahoma, Jalen Hurts.

NC_Canes_11 said:
The Silent Sam statue was unveiled in 1913 to honor the 1,000 plus students and faculty that fought in the civil war. That’s decades before the civil rights movement and before anybody got “uppity.” It’s one of many “silent” statues, meaning there was no ammo cartridge on his belt so he can’t fire the gun. It’s simply a memorial. It’s manufactured rage.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
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Germany doesn't have Hitler statues around and we certainly don't forget him. These statues celebrate people who committed treason and waged war against the United States. Their own secession statements detailed they left the United States to protect the institution of slavery. Their words not mine. Might be the only Civil War in history where the losers weren't executed.
 
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blushrts said:
Germany doesn't have Hitler statues around and we certainly don't forget him. These statues celebrate people who committed treason and waged war against the United States. Their own secession statements detailed they left the United States to protect the institution of slavery. Their words not mine. Might be the only Civil War in history where the losers weren't executed

Austria has a monument for people who died for deserting ***** during WWII and Japan has a shrine of war criminals, including the general who made Pearl Harbor happen. That’s just two off the top of my head.

The statues honor people who lost their lives fighting in a war. You don’t have to be on the right team to be remembered. We have battlegrounds and monuments bc it’s part of our history. The past isn’t always pretty, but you can’t change it. Without those events America wouldn’t be what it is today. Not enough people appreciate how lucky they are to live in the greatest country on the planet
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NC_Canes_11 said:
A lot of history is bad and hurtful, nobody is arguing that. I’m just on the side of not whitewashing it and teaching kids about it so it doesn’t happen again.
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And I'm all for teaching. But we're not talking about what should be included in history class or museums. This is about statues, which are usually erected to glorify something or someone. It's about naming parks and buildings and whatnot after people...a thing we do to commemorate that person's life and contributions to our country.

While Robert E. Lee is a very important historical figure, I can't bring myself to revere the man or want to celebrate his part in trying to split our country in two. He fought to undo our country. He fought to perpetuate slavery. I just can't get down with that, and statues to him are most definitely saying we're down with that.

That's history and we should not forget it. But we don't have to glorify it.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
That’s a blanket statement that dilutes history. George Washington owned slaves, should we take all of his monuments down?
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Many historical figures, GW included, have horrific skeletons in their closets that make it appropriate to re-analyze their place in history. However, I would argue that GW's place as a leader of American independence from Britain tips the scales towards celebrating at least that part of his legacy, which probably favors keeping monuments to him around. I draw that line at the celebration of traitors who fought to secede from the union to preserve their right to own slaves. Statues of Confederate generals should have never been allowed to be erected in the first place, and should 100% be removed from public places.

Also -- very surprised mods haven't shut this down 😂
 
kryptonite said:
And I'm all for teaching. But we're not talking about what should be included in history class or museums. This is about statues, which are usually erected to glorify something or someone. It's about naming parks and buildings and whatnot after people...a thing we do to commemorate that person's life and contributions to our country.

While Robert E. Lee is a very important historical figure, I can't bring myself to revere the man or want to celebrate his part in trying to split our country in two. He fought to undo our country. He fought to perpetuate slavery. I just can't get down with that, and statues to him are most definitely saying we're down with that.

That's history and we should not forget it. But we don't have to glorify it.
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Very good post. I think most should probably taken down, the offensive ones. Kept in places like Museums or places of history. It was a horrendous time I'm sure we can all agree on that. What do you do with statues of say George Washington? Probably most of the first presidents had slaves, do we treat them the same? Hard to even talk about it, what a nightmare of a time. Without some of those guys we wouldn't even have a country. I'd say some type of compromise should be made. I do get it, GW was part of the problem, so I'm not letting him off the hook. I'd be willing to bet almost every nation has some bad history they'd like to forget.

We don't ever want to forget that's for sure, we don't ever want history books to stop telling the truth. Many have tried to sweep the bad under the table, like some have done with Germany and Japan, just two examples. Again great post.
 
Cane_Mutiny said:
Many historical figures, GW included, have horrific skeletons in their closets that make it appropriate to re-analyze their place in history. However, I would argue that GW's place as a leader of American independence from Britain tips the scales towards celebrating at least that part of his legacy, which probably favors keeping monuments to him around. I draw that line at the celebration of traitors who fought to secede from the union to preserve their right to own slaves. Statues of Confederate generals should have never been allowed to be erected in the first place, and should 100% be removed from public places.

Also -- very surprised mods haven't shut this down 😂
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Judging people of the past by the standards of today and not their own time is problematic for a number of reasons.

The fact you are even entertaining the idea of tearing down statues of our first President is ridiculous.
 
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Cane_Mutiny said:
Many historical figures, GW included, have horrific skeletons in their closets that make it appropriate to re-analyze their place in history. However, I would argue that GW's place as a leader of American independence from Britain tips the scales towards celebrating at least that part of his legacy, which probably favors keeping monuments to him around. I draw that line at the celebration of traitors who fought to secede from the union to preserve their right to own slaves. Statues of Confederate generals should have never been allowed to be erected in the first place, and should 100% be removed from public places.

Also -- very surprised mods haven't shut this down 😂
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I'm surprised this is still going too. Since it is, I'll say that I have no problem at all with Washington. But I'm forced to admit it's a bit hypocritical to be against one slave owner and not another. It's obviously a tricky issue, I just think it's important that it not get written off as just some people trying to get something for nothing. There's a real issue here: is it ok for our public institutions to erect and maintain statues to people who owned a large portion of the population's ancestors? And it may be problematic to judge the past by modern standards, but like murder, slavery was always wrong. I get that some people didn't think so, but there are always some people who will ignore moral behavior in favor of profit. That doesn't make it right.

Also, I really like the University of Miami football team. We may have lost site of that at some point.
 
Trav said:
It's cute that some of you think we're immune in South Florida..

https://news.vice.com/amp/en_us/art...ss-n-at-black-teens?__twitter_impression=true
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Not one doubt he should have been arrested, along with every single one in the street provoking others. You want to stop this BS arrest everyone who is part of the problem. He should be fined 10k or so and take his guns. All those blocking traffic should be fined 500, make the parent pay up. Hammer ******** and the **** will stop. This stuff happens all the time with crazies in Portland OR everyone involved should be arrested, almost entirely white ********. This stuff can't be allowed to happen in a civilized country. Something bad happens all the time because it's not stopped.

I have to add if my father ever saw me doing anything like that when I was a kid I would have been beaten to an absolute pulp. I do mean beaten too, I learned very early to respect others. These kids parents need to wake up.
 
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classiccane12 said:
Judging people of the past by the standards of today and not their own time is problematic for a number of reasons.

The fact you are even entertaining the idea of tearing down statues of our first President is ridiculous.
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That’s what gets lost in this whole argument.
 
classiccane12 said:
Judging people of the past by the standards of today and not their own time is problematic for a number of reasons.

The fact you are even entertaining the idea of tearing down statues of our first President is ridiculous.
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It's not ridiculous if you're black. Come on there are two sides to this.
 
I understand both sides of the confederate statue issue. To a degree. Times change, nothing lasts forever even a statue and if a community decides that a statue of a particular individual doesn't represent what they want their community to express and they want to replace it. Fine. I think it's a slippery slope but they certainly have the right to do it. But look at the Duke statue, the statue itself and the reasons for putting it up do not represent all those evil things. Doesn't that matter?

The problem is with the general nation wide idea that all confederates were "racist, slave whipping, traitors" are all evil and all statues MUST be taken down. The civil war was not fought over slavery. It was a part sure, and for some in the south more than others, but it was just one representation of the idea that the federal government was encroaching on the states' rights to sovereignty. At the time, states were really like individual nations more so then they are today and they didn't like feds telling them what to do. Ability to own slaves was a big issue that received a lot of attention for obvious reasons ($$$). But an entire civil war didn't break out because of that issue alone and the south wasn't just motivated by "racism". Those are facts. But that doesn't fit into a 140 character narrative to push.

As far as Washington. Does it matter if he treated his slaves respectfully or not? If he housed them, fed them, didn't work them into the ground? Not every slave owner is like what you see in the movies. Yes some were obviously and they were terrible people. I'm not defending slavery as an idea here, but again in that time, people owned slaves. Using today's (accurate) standard that "who ever owns a slave is evil" to paint every single individual slave owner in the past as an evil person isn't necessarily true imo. Slavery has been going for the entirety of human history it's not jus ta US thing. Although we were one of the first to abolish it. Still goes on in parts of the world today as a matter of fact. But let's all worry about some statues.

Go Canes
 
rokulika said:
Miami racism is a bit different. The blacks are completely segregated so unless you seek trouble it's not likely you'll find any black/white tension. It's the Cubans who treat a person like dirt if they don't speak Spanish or listen to reggaeton.
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That’s one **** of a generalization about an entire group of people.

What’s that called? There’s a word for that.

Why not throw in blacks are lazy, Jews are cheap and money hungry more than other people, all Italians are in the Mafia, and latins are all hot tempered.

I never get pulled into discussions about race or politics, but you are a better poster than this one really bad comment.
 
classiccane12 said:
The problem is with the general nation wide idea that all confederates were "racist, slave whipping, traitors" are all evil and all statues MUST be taken down. The civil war was not fought over slavery. It was a part sure, and for some in the south more than others, but it was just one representation of the idea that the federal government was encroaching on the states' rights to sovereignty. At the time, states were really like individual nations more so then they are today and they didn't like feds telling them what to do. Ability to own slaves was a big issue that received a lot of attention for obvious reasons ($$$). But an entire civil war didn't break out because of that issue alone and the south wasn't just motivated by "racism". Those are facts. But that doesn't fit into a 140 character narrative to push.

Go Canes
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I'm sorry...but so tired of this false, revisionist narrative to minimize the role of slavery. It was the main and dominating reason without any question. Every major national debate before 1860 was about slavery. Missouri Compromise, the War with Mexico, Compromise of 1850, etc.

There are extensive records and document kept for this period which absolutely prove this point....

South Carolina has Slavery all over its articles of secession which started this all. However my personal favorite was Texas who always likes to do things bigger and better.....

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable. That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator.

Then you have the Vice President of the Confederate States Alexander H. Stephens in his Cornerstone Speech......

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions--African slavery as it exists among us--the proper status of the ***** in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution [...] The general opinion of the men of that day [Revolutionary Period] was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution [slavery] would be evanescent and pass away [...] Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the ***** is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.


Finally.....the encroaching on states rights narrative......The Confederate Constitution prohibited states from banning the ownership of slaves.

The Confederacy, from day one, put slavery above states rights. That blows up the "states rights over Slavery" false narrative.
 
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
That’s one **** of a generalization about an entire group of people.

What’s that called? There’s a word for that.

Why not throw in blacks are lazy, Jews are cheap and money hungry more than other people, all Italians are in the Mafia, and latins are all hot tempered.

I never get pulled into discussions about race or politics, but you are a better poster than this one really bad comment.
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My parents were born in Cuba. I'm allowed to make this kind of sweeping generalization.
 
Would the southern states have ever joined the union if they knew they'd never be able to leave it?
 
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rokulika said:
My parents were born in Cuba. I'm allowed to make this kind of sweeping generalization.
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lol no

Still a sweeping generalization. I like 99.9% of your posts, but this one not so much. It’s not that it’s about Cubans, because I don’t have any particular reason or affiliation to stand up for them, I would say this about any similar type post regarding any kind of group.

Anyway, I’ve said my peace about it
 
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