NFL OT - Carolina Panthers trade for the #1 overall pick

[cway313]

Idk dude was a beast in hs and then was a beast in college. I don’t know about the entitled stuff but he does have that off field issue going on. I would still take him if I’m Detroit. Maybe they could move back and still get him

In high school he had nothing. In college he got a small dose of something and that's when issues started. The more he gets the more football becomes secondary. Skipping out on combine and showing up outta shape to Pro Day shows how serious this is to him. Especially in the middle of a crisis you would want him to prove he is locked in.

 

[calinative umstudent]

At least half the guys on your list are great for making the point you are trying to rebut. And consider that "seasons" doesn't mean much for NFL QBs, especially the guys who end up barely playing as backups or who keep getting injured. Peak behind the curtain at games played.

Keenum has 78 games played over his 10 years.
40 total games played (5 per season) for Tim Rattay.
54 games played for Rex in a career with more picks than TDs.
Colt McCoy's "12 seasons" in the NFL (which includes 5 seasons where he made less than 30 pass attempts), but where he played in 55 total games.

All of those guys played in less than 5 seasons worth of games, regardless of how long they managed to stick around collecting checks in a league with a dearth of QB talent. ****, even Vick only averaging 11 games played per season comes out to less than 9 seasons of games.

Kyler is good and still young, but the jury is out on how long his career will last and the impact he has. He missed 3 games in 2021, and 6 games last season. There's already a fair chance he misses games to start season 5 recovering from his torn ACL in December. If you are looking at maximizing the 5 year window, his seems to be closing at a bad time for AZ.

Wilson and Brees are undeniable talents with very successful NFL careers. And Wilson has been especially durable. He might be the exception that proves the "under 6'1" rule." Of course, you didn't include guys like Pat White, Johnny Manziel, and Cade McNown, all of whom (off the top of my head) were 6'1" and failed and/or nearly died in the league.

There is a reason so few QBs under 6'1" are drafted.

Is an ACL injury something that impacts short people more? Let’s not act like that is indicative of Small QBs getting hurt more often lol.

…and the point I was making is Young can absolutely be trusted to start 5+ years. Yeah I didn’t include some short guys, but all those guys weren’t even close to the talent that Bryce Young is. I showed multiple examples of frail guys lasting in the league. Why would anyone expect that it’s so much more unreasonable for Bryce Young to last when Colt McCoy did…. Or Drew Brees.

Those guys didn’t fail in the league because their body broke, they failed because they can’t throw the ball or understand offense and move in the pocket nearly as well as Bryce Young.

 

[OldhamA]

Because drafting a QB doesn't need to be a 10+ year decision. Even if we say Young won't hold up due to his size, lets be realistic - he'll probably be fine for at least 5-8 years before anything really starts failing. And 5 years is what you really should be drafting based on - the length of his rookie deal. IN that time you can completely turn a franchise around and make a run for the SB while paying him peanuts.

I'd say Stroud can be like a Jared Goff / Matt Ryan ... but after seeing the Georgia Game maybe he has the ability to work way better than either of those two off schedule and be a play maker.... But should we really value 1 game that much? idk.
Young imo can definitely be a way more disciplined/better leader/face of franchise Kyler Murray.
Will Levis is like a Cutler/Zach Wilson/Drew Lock...
Anthony Richardson is obviously like Cam/Lamar...

It **** well better be a 10 year decision when you've given up 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks and a **** good WR1 for the privilege of drafting him #1 overall.

 

[calinative umstudent]

It **** well better be a 10 year decision when you've given up 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks and a **** good WR1 for the privilege of drafting him #1 overall.

that is only true if the Panthers draft hkm, and even then it doesn’t need to be a 10+ year decision. You’re telling me if Panthers drafted Young, quickly turned around the franchise and got to and potentially win a SB then within 10team later Young gets hurt and they cut him, that it’ll be a mistake?

The only way it’s bad is if Young isn’t good, not if he doesn’t play 10+ years. The Rams gave up two 1sts for Stafford and they are only gunna have him like 4 years and at $30-40m/yr. But it is all worth it cause they got a SB.

 

[RVACane]

Georgia DT Carter heavier, struggles at pro day

Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter, considered a potential top pick in the NFL draft, was nine pounds heavier than he was at the NFL combine about two weeks ago and couldn't finish his position drills at Georgia's pro day on Wednesday.

www.espn.com

@calinative umstudent As I stated this is not the guy I would draft if I were the Lions. Everything about him screams bust. Extremely talented but already entitled. I hope Bears waste first here. @Rellyrell

 

[E1k]

No it isn't, everytime people freak out about small Qbs they end up relatively fine.

Bryce Young - 5'10", 29.3 BMI.
Kyler Murray - 5'10", 29.7 BMI. - Played 4 years.
Russell Wilson - 5'11" 28.4 BMI. - Has played 11 yrs.
Drew Brees - 6'1", 28.1 BMI. - Played 20 years.
Mike Vick - 6'1", 27.7 BMI. - Played 13 years.
Colt McCoy - 6'1" , 28.5 BMI. - Played 12 years.
Case Keenum - 6'1" 27.4 BMI. - Played 10 years.
Rex Grossman - 5'11", 30.3 BMI. - Played 9 years.
Tim Rattay - 6'1", 28.4 BMI. - Played 8 years.

... most of these guys weren't even close to the Quality of prospect that Bryce Young was either. Sure some are 6'1", but I included BMI to show that while taller they weren't as built and were possibly actually more frail.

Man if bryce was 6’1 at least id be almost sure he’d be a star in the league. I still think he’ll be good but that height and frame would scare me. This list isn’t a promising example for a team drafting him at the top of the draft tho

The way defenses are now you have to attack the mof and that is what bryce was best at in bama but if his height effects that in the nfl like we’ve seen for qbs his size(kyler/russ) then idk man. And he doesn’t have the arm talent russ and kyler has even tho he’s probably just straight up better than kyler at most things qb wise but it’ll be something to see.

 

[E1k]

Georgia DT Carter heavier, struggles at pro day

Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter, considered a potential top pick in the NFL draft, was nine pounds heavier than he was at the NFL combine about two weeks ago and couldn't finish his position drills at Georgia's pro day on Wednesday.

www.espn.com

@calinative umstudent As I stated this is not the guy I would draft if I were the Lions. Everything about him screams bust. Extremely talented but already entitled. I hope Bears waste first here. @Rellyrell

Especially after the Isaiah wilson situation, lot of red flags but this kid so special id probably risk it if idl is a big need lol

 

[gacaneaddict]

Carolina needed to do this. They have defensive talent, but they haven't had a QB in so long. I go to some Carolina games, they need something to ignite the stadium. That usually happens because of offense and big plays.

This move was for Stroud IMO. IF you think their is a QB that is YOUR guy, you make the move to go get him.

 

[PIPO]

At least half the guys on your list are great for making the point you are trying to rebut. And consider that "seasons" doesn't mean much for NFL QBs, especially the guys who end up barely playing as backups or who keep getting injured. Peak behind the curtain at games played.

Keenum has 78 games played over his 10 years.
40 total games played (5 per season) for Tim Rattay.
54 games played for Rex in a career with more picks than TDs.
Colt McCoy's "12 seasons" in the NFL (which includes 5 seasons where he made less than 30 pass attempts), but where he played in 55 total games.

All of those guys played in less than 5 seasons worth of games, regardless of how long they managed to stick around collecting checks in a league with a dearth of QB talent. ****, even Vick only averaging 11 games played per season comes out to less than 9 seasons of games.

Kyler is good and still young, but the jury is out on how long his career will last and the impact he has. He missed 3 games in 2021, and 6 games last season. There's already a fair chance he misses games to start season 5 recovering from his torn ACL in December. If you are looking at maximizing the 5 year window, his seems to be closing at a bad time for AZ.

Wilson and Brees are undeniable talents with very successful NFL careers. And Wilson has been especially durable. He might be the exception that proves the "under 6'1" rule." Of course, you didn't include guys like Pat White, Johnny Manziel, and Cade McNown, all of whom (off the top of my head) were 6'1" and failed and/or nearly died in the league.

There is a reason so few QBs under 6'1" are drafted.

Great points!!!

Also, Don’t forget Baker Mayfield who was 6’1 and has already flamed out and Mike Vick was on that list but he was a unicorn with his speed/running ability and arm strength.

Basically, Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are the exceptions to the rule vs the norm

 

[Cribby]

Great points!!!

Also, Don’t forget Baker Mayfield who was 6’1 and has already flamed out and Mike Vick was on that list but he was a unicorn with his speed/running ability and arm strength.

Basically, Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are the exceptions to the rule vs the norm

Michael Vick was also one of the most inaccurate qb’s in the league while in Atl.

 

[Cribby]

All those guys have more weight than young. Kyler is hurt right now, Vick got banged up a bit, Brees had some injuries

Anyone that stands next to B Young cant get over how tiny he is, height and weight. That said I’d take a chance on him because the guy can put that ball in places moat qb’s can’t. His accuracy is top shelf. Gun to head I take Stroud and that’s because of athletic ability and size. But Young throws the best ball.

 

[PIPO]

Anyone that stands next to B Young cant get over how tiny he is, height and wait. That said I’d take a chance on him because the guy can put that ball in places moat qb’s can’t. His accuracy is top shelf. Gun to head I take Stroud and that’s because of athletic ability and size. But Young throws the best ball.

He definitely throws a beautiful ball, great placement, good arm strength, good feet and is a smart kid.

He also had the advantage of playing at Bama with dominant lines that pretty much overpowered most defensive lines most weekends that gave him great time, pockets to throw from and kept him from taking a lot of hits.

That will change in the NFL and whatever team picks him up needs to do the anti Joe Burrow plan (I still can’t believe 3-4 years in, Cincy still hasn’t gotten him a solid offensive line). The O-line will be the key to Young being successful in this league.

 

[Cribby]

He definitely throws a beautiful ball, great placement, good arm strength, good feet and is a smart kid.

He also had the advantage of playing at Bama with dominant lines that pretty much overpowered most defensive lines most weekends that gave him great time, pockets to throw from and kept him from taking a lot of hits.

That will change in the NFL and whatever team picks him up needs to do the anti Joe Burrow plan (I still can’t believe 3-4 years in, Cincy still hasn’t gotten him a solid offensive line). The O-line will be the key to Young being successful in this league.

The Colts have spent on their line so that would be a decent spot

 

[bobbydigius]

He definitely throws a beautiful ball, great placement, good arm strength, good feet and is a smart kid.

He also had the advantage of playing at Bama with dominant lines that pretty much overpowered most defensive lines most weekends that gave him great time, pockets to throw from and kept him from taking a lot of hits.

That will change in the NFL and whatever team picks him up needs to do the anti Joe Burrow plan (I still can’t believe 3-4 years in, Cincy still hasn’t gotten him a solid offensive line). The O-line will be the key to Young being successful in this league.

The one thing working for Bryce is that he came around at the right time. One of the questions about his size is can he take hits in the NFL and he has entered the league during a time where the QBs are ridiculously protected. I have a feeling Stroud goes 1 and I think the Texans will be very happy with Bryce.

 

[decane]

The Colts have spent on their line so that would be a decent spot

Colts had the highest paid OL but really underperformed last year. Ryan Kelly has really regressed at Center and even Quenton Nelson played below his expectations. RG is still a problem going into this year. The rookie LT Raihmann struggled early but came on strong at the end of last season. Hoping they turn it around this year

Really happy with the Steichen hire. He designs his offense around the QB strengths and had a lot of success with very different QBs in Rivers, Herbert,
and Hurts. He did amazing work with Hurts

Qb wise draft wise Bryce Young's performances against the 2021-2022 Uga defense were incredible. That defense had 5 first rd picks plus Nakobe dean and a healthy Nolan Smith and was considerably more talented than the 2022-23 version.

Considering the work Steichen did with Hurts, I would be comfortable with Colts drafting Richardson at 4 realizing it will take a couple of years to develop him.

 

[OldhamA]

Anyone that stands next to B Young cant get over how tiny he is, height and wait. That said I’d take a chance on him because the guy can put that ball in places moat qb’s can’t. His accuracy is top shelf. Gun to head I take Stroud and that’s because of athletic ability and size. But Young throws the best ball.

Some perspective for you - dude is just too small to risk such a high pick on.

I actually think Stroud throws the best ball in the Draft, but Young is the best creating from chaos (although how much of that chaos is created because he can't see the middle of the field is another matter...)

 

[bobbydigius]

View attachment 233002
Some perspective for you - dude is just too small to risk such a high pick on.

I actually think Stroud throws the best ball in the Draft, but Young is the best creating from chaos (although how much of that chaos is created because he can't see the middle of the field is another matter...)

Kid's football IQ is through the roof. We all hated Manny, but he threw the **** kitchen sink at him in that opener against Bama. Now the Bama coaching staff did a great job preparing that team against us but as a RS Freshman, we threw every type of pressure at him, and he calmly always found the right read every single time.

 

[PIPO]

Colts had the highest paid OL but really underperformed last year. Ryan Kelly has really regressed at Center and even Quenton Nelson played below his expectations. RG is still a problem going into this year. The rookie LT Raihmann struggled early but came on strong at the end of last season. Hoping they turn it around this year

Really happy with the Steichen hire. He designs his offense around the QB strengths and had a lot of success with very different QBs in Rivers, Herbert,
and Hurts. He did amazing work with Hurts

Qb wise draft wise Bryce Young's performances against the 2021-2022 Uga defense were incredible. That defense had 5 first rd picks plus Nakobe dean and a healthy Nolan Smith and was considerably more talented than the 2022-23 version.

Considering the work Steichen did with Hurts, I would be comfortable with Colts drafting Richardson at 4 realizing it will take a couple of years to develop him.

That’s some solid analysis.

We are going to miss Steichen in Philly. I really hope he does well in Indy.

 

[OldhamA]

Kid's football IQ is through the roof. We all hated Manny, but he threw the **** kitchen sink at him in that opener against Bama. Now the Bama coaching staff did a great job preparing that team against us but as a RS Freshman, we threw every type of pressure at him, and he calmly always found the right read every single time.

No-one is questioning his IQ or his College career - but how many NFL players did we have on that defence?

 

[Cribby]

View attachment 233002
Some perspective for you - dude is just too small to risk such a high pick on.

I actually think Stroud throws the best ball in the Draft, but Young is the best creating from chaos (although how much of that chaos is created because he can't see the middle of the field is another matter...)

I think people are overreacting a little with the size. It’s 2023, you can’t hit the qb high , low or roll over on him lol. You must stop and lay him down like he’s an injured fawn lol. This isn’t exactly the early 2000’s.

He doesn’t run nearly as much as most qb’s but is athletic enough to move the chains and extend plays like Mahomes. His accuracy is far and away the best in the draft and that deep ball is great. On top of that he’s considered a brilliant football mind. So he had tangibles and intangibles minus height.

In the new NFL it’s hard to bust as a qb because you’re pretty much running college offenses , there’s nowhere near the transition like back when things were more complicated. The speed of the game is the only drastic change now.

That said I lean Stroud because of his size and legs but I’d have no issue taking Young. Especially over a guy like Richardson who’s going to likely get a GM fired. I’d prefer Young later but if you need a qb and have a pick go for it.