OT: anyone else PPP loan/grant

Yeah, your plan has to be better...let the entire economy collapse, panic and pandamonium, all in the name of not "giving out handouts" to the unemployed( including unemployment)...so that tons of you can vote for Bernie or Biden in search of full time socialism that neither have ever practiced themselves.

Some people are so hilarious, like there is some handbook for Presidents on exactly how to deal with a pandemic and a corrupt Congress and media at the same time.

Funnier is like an earlier post here claiming the whole world sees what a mess this plan has been, from banks to every voter, it's in shambles, and a single dime hasn't even distributed. These are the agenda driven individuals with TDS that argued there nothing wrong with the ObamaCare website or solar companies that he pushed so his corrupt buddies could get rich off pure incompetence. So ******* sad.

The reality? Nobody, especially Trump, wants something like this plan unless it was absolutely necessary. All the bull**** pork that Nancy and the liberal cartel put in there? Kennedy Center that is hurting (her family on the board)....huh? Where is this **** coming from? Trump finally just ssaid **** it...let's move on...the corrupt will be corrupt and put their needs first...this plan needs to get out even with this unreal garbage Pelosi and Schumer concocted that they had been waiting to push on the people.

This thing sucks...and our children and grandchildren will have to pay for it sadly (hopefully, unless libs get their Venezuelan utopia)...but it is necessary, and hopefully very temporary.
Ummmm, there literally was a handbook for Trump. There was a whole team, budget, and a plan. He got rid of the team, cut the funding, and ignored the plan which they left. He could not have handled it worse. There were multiple meetings when he started to prep him for a pandemic where he was warned about something like this, H292 even went global right when he started but the US luckily didn't get hit. That should've been a wake-up call. Again, he did nothing.

Bill Gates spoke with him several times trying to show how real a possibility something like this was, again he did nothing. Here's a quote showing how unbelievably.nad he's been so far.

South Korea and the United States discovered their first cases on the same day. South Korea now has 183 dead — or 4 deaths per 1 million people. The U.S. death ratio (25 per 1 million) is six times worse — and rising quickly.
 
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Unless you're gaming the system and coming out of this whole ordeal ahead then save your thanks and praise for a "bailout" that we're all going to pay for and one that is only needed because the people handing you your own money as you say "thank you" were beyond inept in doing their actual jobs.

Even the $1200 "stimulus" for those that qualify is a joke as it's essentially only an early disbursement of your 2020 tax refund. And one that probably won't even arrive anytime soon as a lot of those same people struggle to even get an unemployment check in the next month.

So let's save any praise for the federal government, por favor. And let's be pretty diligent in evaluating our state level leaders too.

How would you have responded if your were POTUS?

What levers of national hard and soft power would you have pulled?

Why so?

So far everyone screaming here how "Admin sucks, blah, blah, blah" can't answer those basic questions.

I wonder why that is?
 
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1. I agree in a vacuum pandemic related bailouts are necessary. But only 8-12 years off the last recession we're leveraging ourselves into collapse territory. That's my main issue.

2. Energy independence can be achieved can be achieved through diversifying our energy with renewables. We need to be innovators in this not laggards. Shale is some lazy redneck bull****.

1. This stimulus will accelerate having to contend with runaway debt--hopefully it finally forces govt to act in next 10 years. 2030s and 2040s are going to be painful, very painful.

2. It isn't renewables. It's about limitless and storage. Fusion power and batteries are what will likely drive our economies and advancements for hundreds of years to come.
 
Ummmm, there literally was a handbook for Trump. There was a whole team, budget, and a plan. He got rid of the team, cut the funding, and ignored the plan which they left. He could not have handled it worse. There were multiple meetings when he started to prep him for a pandemic where he was warned about something like this, H292 even went global right when he started but the US luckily didn't get hit. That should've been a wake-up call. Again, he did nothing.

Bill Gates spoke with him several times trying to show how real a possibility something like this was, again he did nothing. Here's a quote showing how unbelievably.nad he's been so far.

South Korea and the United States discovered their first cases on the same day. South Korea now has 183 dead — or 4 deaths per 1 million people. The U.S. death ratio (25 per 1 million) is six times worse — and rising quickly.


He made a ton of mistakes, but there was no handbook for this. Every other advanced nation out there is going through what we are on a commensurate scale to its total population.

There are almost 30 million people in New York/ New Jersey. That's more than half of the entire population of countries like Spain, South Korea and England living in a single metropolitan area.
 
# Of case per million of population

Spain---3005
Switzerland---2543
Italy---2192
Belgium---1915
France---1502
Austria---1380
Germany---1235
USA---1111
Netherlands-1097
Norway---1082
Isreal---1040
 
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Why the **** don't Americans save some money for a rainy day. Even the low wage earners can have their 200 phone bills, high speed internet, 100 dollar cable bills, new cars, houses they can't afford. It's time they teach kids in school how to be responsible and how to save. Same with these businesses. How can we have so many ******* dumb people in this country? I've said it I feel better.
Because their unwilling to Live within their means....THAT has been a problem in America for ions....CaneinOrlando's Mom hammered that into his head...
 
1. I agree in a vacuum pandemic related bailouts are necessary. But only 8-12 years off the last recession we're leveraging ourselves into collapse territory. That's my main issue.

2. Energy independence can be achieved can be achieved through diversifying our energy with renewables. We need to be innovators in this not laggards. Shale is some lazy redneck bull****.

Lot of politics mixed in there, not that I mind politics. Nice mix in yours: standard Rep worry about debt with Dem obsession against carbon. Both are valid big discussion issues but my cabin fever is to advanced for such deep thought. Another day for sure. Stay safe.
 
# Of case per million of population

Spain---3005
Switzerland---2543
Italy---2192
Belgium---1915
France---1502
Austria---1380
Germany---1235
USA---1111
Netherlands-1097
Norway---1082
Isreal---1040
Little surprised at that Switzerland number. Saw something the other day about China having bought up the garment manufacturing in Northern Italy and importing Chinese laborers mostly from the region where virus came to work the plants. I know Spain makes fine lace. Wonder if same might be true there.
 
How would you have responded if your were POTUS?

What levers of national hard and soft power would you have pulled?

Why so?

So far everyone screaming here how "Admin sucks, blah, blah, blah" can't answer those basic questions.

I wonder why that is?

2 months were wasted by him and you know it. People in his own administration know it. Even Peter "freakin' mainline the hydroxychloroquine straight in my brain" Navarro knew it.

But that's essentially irrelevant as there are receipts of Tangerine Jesus from January on downplaying it and doing nothing beyond a half-assed travel ban from China that was hardly that and only appealed to him because boarrrrders make him moist.

To answer in specifics what should've/could've been done would take about 15 more pages. But we can keep it simple:

-We should've had testing capabilities that weren't an absolute disgrace.
-We should've been doing better screening at the airports. Something he STILL is lying about
-We shouldn't have only been ordering more ventilators in mid effing March
-We shouldn't have disbanded the Pandemic Response Team
-When Alex Azar made REPEATED attempts to discuss this with him in January the subject shouldn't have been immediately changed to vaping

And it goes on and on and on...

But no worries. It's only 15 cases and that will be down to 0 like magic shortly as soon as April approaches and the weather warms up.
 
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Congress is already talking about maybe doing a second Payroll Protection Program.

Things are still moving along with us. Since the big banks finally joined on Monday the SBA system keeps crashing or moving extremely slow. What used to take 10 min to input an application now takes 35 min.

we have received a great response for our initial rush Friday-Sun. Hoping to be funded by end this week for those clients and we can close those loans.
 
2 months were wasted by him and you know it. People in his own administration know it. Even Peter "freakin' mainline the hydroxychloroquine straight in my brain" Navarro knew it.

But that's essentially irrelevant as there are receipts of Tangerine Jesus from January on downplaying it and doing nothing beyond a half-assed travel ban from China that was hardly that and only appealed to him because boarrrrders make him moist.

To answer in specifics what should've/could've been done would take about 15 more pages. But we can keep it simple:

-We should've had testing capabilities that weren't an absolute disgrace.
-We should've been doing better screening at the airports. Something he STILL is lying about
-We shouldn't have only been ordering more ventilators in mid effing March
-We shouldn't have disbanded the Pandemic Response Team
-When Alex Azar made REPEATED attempts to discuss this with him in January the subject shouldn't have been immediately changed to vaping

And it goes on and on and on...

But no worries. It's only 15 cases and that will be down to 0 like magic shortly as soon as April approaches and the weather warms up.

Ok. Do you have any idea how daily intel and threat briefings go? Do you grasp the volime of "we are all going to die" issues POTUS and other members of NCA face by 1200 each day? National leadership decisions for the US can have global consequences--politico, socio, and economic. This isn't a jet ski that turns on a dime when faced with these types of things

The systems just don't work that way and for good reason. When a Pearl Harbor or Katrina happens, the systems initially work very badly--it's a distasteful FEATURE of how our nation is organized from a governmental perspective.

Do you have any idea what it takes to take the lock tabs off of all the generic levers you describe above, let alone start throwing them?

Do you have an understanding of what it takes to get a testing regimen into place in normal environs, let alone emergencies?

A significant problem in any crisis is those howling loudest have no clue what mechanisms need to engage or even how to engage those mechanisms. Everyone wants an easy button, but guess what?

That easy button doesn't exist for pandemics--yet. DoD ALONE has 10 plans that I know of--and they were written in 2007. What we will see in the future is a streamlining and restructuring, like FEMA was after the disastrous Katrina response. Guess what then as well---there were COUNTLESS plans at all levels to deal with it, but they had never been stressed to that point.

Has POTUS said and done head scratchers? My goodness he is a walking and typing gaff machine. Has the government response overall been on par given the reality factors that had to be contended with? It has actually--they struggled early, but have rallied significantly since.

The only way I know to reform it, but be to go full Sparta on every issue imaginable. We don't have the resources, the attention span, or the culture to do so.

No one on the planet does, but every populace demands instant, infinite, and perfect response to every issue small and large.

The key to disasters besides prevention is mitigation and recovery. We have a history as a nation of poor prevention, but very strong mitigation and recovery. This pandemic will be no different.

Nor will the next. It is very easy to howl when never having been in those seats.
 
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He made a ton of mistakes, but there was no handbook for this. Every other advanced nation out there is going through what we are on a commensurate scale to its total population.

There are almost 30 million people in New York/ New Jersey. That's more than half of the entire population of countries like Spain, South Korea and England living in a single metropolitan area.

Actually this will make you mad...there a several.handbooks...but none of them were fully synchronized, exercised, or even enforced.

That will change now, and in a hurry.
 
Actually this will make you mad...there a several.handbooks...but none of them were fully synchronized, exercised, or even enforced.

That will change now, and in a hurry.


It doesn't make me mad because using the word handbook is a low rent way to place blame. I'm sure there currently is no book out there that has a game plan for a communist regime hiding, then lying, then misrepresenting the facts of a strange new virus that in the meantime is spreading throughout the world by that country's citizens fleeing the country to Europe, who in turn brings it to our shores, likely before we knew it even existed.

But I get your point. Lockdowns will be total and immediate in the future. Stockpiles will be replenished to never before seen levels and we will spend an ungodly amount devising a course of action for every scenario.

This thing is a wake up call in the scope of 9/11.
 
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Because their unwilling to Live within their means....THAT has been a problem in America for ions....CaneinOrlando's Mom hammered that into his head...
Caineinorlando's Mom is smart. You're very lucky to have such a great mom she taught you one of the most important things early. I would have given anything to have such a strong mother around to guide me. Kudos to your mom....
 
Please stop lying.

Banks are all saying this is a disaster, they have received no parameters or guidelines and no money has been lent yet.

No, nothing happened today. No money moved.


It's not the governments job to take care of anyone. And not in a time like this. You're supposed to cover your own butt, and the banks cover theirs.


When the tide rolls out, you see who had their pants down.
 
It's not the governments job to take care of anyone. And not in a time like this. You're supposed to cover your own butt, and the banks cover theirs.


When the tide rolls out, you see who had their pants down.

Again, the stimulus is awesome. So the federal government got the plan right. But we're still in a big mess due to a lack of execution on their part. The banks can't distribute funds until the feds say go. And my bank just sent me an email a few minutes ago saying the lead time for PPP funding "isn't know" because the SBA hasn't released the necessary documents for closing yet.
 
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Ok. Do you have any idea how daily intel and threat briefings go? Do you grasp the volime of "we are all going to die" issues POTUS and other members of NCA face by 1200 each day? National leadership decisions for the US can have global consequences--politico, socio, and economic. This isn't a jet ski that turns on a dime when faced with these types of things

The systems just don't work that way and for good reason. When a Pearl Harbor or Katrina happens, the systems initially work very badly--it's a distasteful FEATURE of how our nation is organized from a governmental perspective.

Do you have any idea what it takes to take the lock tabs off of all the generic levers you describe above, let alone start throwing them?

Do you have an understanding of what it takes to get a testing regimen into place in normal environs, let alone emergencies?

A significant problem in any crisis is those howling loudest have no clue what mechanisms need to engage or even how to engage those mechanisms. Everyone wants an easy button, but guess what?

That easy button doesn't exist for pandemics--yet. DoD ALONE has 10 plans that I know of--and they were written in 2007. What we will see in the future is a streamlining and restructuring, like FEMA was after the disastrous Katrina response. Guess what then as well---there were COUNTLESS plans at all levels to deal with it, but they had never been stressed to that point.

Has POTUS said and done head scratchers? My goodness he is a walking and typing gaff machine. Has the government response overall been on par given the reality factors that had to be contended with? It has actually--they struggled early, but have rallied significantly since.

The only way I know to reform it, but be to go full Sparta on every issue imaginable. We don't have the resources, the attention span, or the culture to do so.

No one on the planet does, but every populace demands instant, infinite, and perfect response to every issue small and large.

The key to disasters besides prevention is mitigation and recovery. We have a history as a nation of poor prevention, but very strong mitigation and recovery. This pandemic will be no different.

Nor will the next. It is very easy to howl when never having been in those seats.

You're obviously a super smart person. But you're letting this administration off the hook too easily. The fact that all crises have planning and logistical failures doesn't excuse blatant disregard of the science community and data that continues even today. Tad's points are factual. And even if we forgive the administration for lack of preparedness, the country should have been on a national lock-down for at least the last 3-4 weeks, when the CDC threw up its hands admitting it was being socially transmitted and was untraceable. We would already be coming out of this crisis if that had happened.

Trump is getting there, he's certainly changing his tune. But we're like the toad in the water, boiling by increments (literally to death) when we could have jumped out of the bucket a lot sooner with a President who had turned up the heat when he needed to.
 
You're obviously a super smart person. But you're letting this administration off the hook too easily. The fact that all crises have planning and logistical failures doesn't excuse blatant disregard of the science community and data that continues even today. Tad's points are factual. And even if we forgive the administration for lack of preparedness, the country should have been on a national lock-down for at least the last 3-4 weeks, when the CDC threw up its hands admitting it was being socially transmitted and was untraceable. We would already be coming out of this crisis if that had happened.

Trump is getting there, he's certainly changing his tune. But we're like the toad in the water, boiling by increments (literally to death) when we could have jumped out of the bucket a lot sooner with a President who had turned up the heat when he needed to.

I hear you loud and clear...100%.

I've rarely (if ever) defended POTUS personally. I've said he acts like an unnecessary douche on several occasions. What I do defend, unashamed, is the authorities than come with the Office of POTUS, or Congress, or SCOTUS.

There are people howling and caterwauling with "X, y, and z sucks!!" "there oughta be a law" "that is illegal!!" when they have never been, never done, never will be.
 
To answer in specifics what should've/could've been done would take about 15 more pages. But we can keep it simple:

-We should've had testing capabilities that weren't an absolute disgrace.
-We should've been doing better screening at the airports. Something he STILL is lying about
-We shouldn't have only been ordering more ventilators in mid effing March
-We shouldn't have disbanded the Pandemic Response Team
-When Alex Azar made REPEATED attempts to discuss this with him in January the subject shouldn't have been immediately changed to vaping

Don't forget Trump gave away 18 tons of PPEs to China, and then blamed 3M for abiding by a contract...you're welcome:

 
Here's the biggest issue with PPP. The day you get the loan, the next 8 weeks of payroll are forgivable. Which means if things aren't ready to go by then, you have to lay your people off.

Further, if you've already laid people off, the money you spend on the people you keep isn't fully forgivable, unless you rehire all your employees.

For a lot of companies, it will just be better to lay people off and let them collect unemployment for 4 months.
 
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