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OT: anyone else PPP loan/grant

CFLCane said:
It's sadder that for the 2nd time in 12 years we're sponsoring corporate socialism on a massive scale.
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Yeah, your plan has to be better...let the entire economy collapse, panic and pandamonium, all in the name of not "giving out handouts" to the unemployed( including unemployment)...so that tons of you can vote for Bernie or Biden in search of full time socialism that neither have ever practiced themselves.

Some people are so hilarious, like there is some handbook for Presidents on exactly how to deal with a pandemic and a corrupt Congress and media at the same time.

Funnier is like an earlier post here claiming the whole world sees what a mess this plan has been, from banks to every voter, it's in shambles, and a single dime hasn't even distributed. These are the agenda driven individuals with TDS that argued there nothing wrong with the ObamaCare website or solar companies that he pushed so his corrupt buddies could get rich off pure incompetence. So ******* sad.

The reality? Nobody, especially Trump, wants something like this plan unless it was absolutely necessary. All the bull**** pork that Nancy and the liberal cartel put in there? Kennedy Center that is hurting (her family on the board)....huh? Where is this **** coming from? Trump finally just ssaid **** it...let's move on...the corrupt will be corrupt and put their needs first...this plan needs to get out even with this unreal garbage Pelosi and Schumer concocted that they had been waiting to push on the people.

This thing sucks...and our children and grandchildren will have to pay for it sadly (hopefully, unless libs get their Venezuelan utopia)...but it is necessary, and hopefully very temporary.
 
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this can’t be about politics or parties. The simple truth is, our government acted more quickly than it ever has before. I am so proud to be a tax paying American. This will be the first time I actually look to the government to help keep the economy going. This will be remembered, the 350 Billion to small businesses and the unemployment salary match, as some of the smartest parts of a bill passed in our countries history. 🇺🇸 Help is going to the working man, not wealthy publicly held companies with billion dollar market caps.
 
Fawk_U Haters said:
oh i understand that, but The program is haphazard and not very well administered. You realize that they can be both right?
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It's was done very quickly and it's better than nothing at all. I mean why are we complaining about an effort made by our typically selfish government, to boost our crumbling economic infrastructure due to this virus?

I understand that their are probably some shortcomings with this program, but it was done very quickly in an attempt to keep doors open and businesses running. This could have taken months to derive and probably and a much better roll out, but what would the consequences of that have been?
 
S.CarolinaCane said:
It's was done very quickly and it's better than nothing at all. I mean why are we complaining about an effort made by our typically selfish government, to boost our crumbling economic infrastructure due to this virus?

I understand that their are probably some shortcomings with this program, but it was done very quickly in an attempt to keep doors open and businesses running. This could have taken months to derive and probably and a much better roll out, but what would the consequences of that have been?
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I'm not saying the program was wrong and i get why it was done. It was needed and it was needed quickly. That isn't the premise. However like most things with the current leadership there are grand ideas and little to no actual plan for implementation. At some point in time a plan has to evolve with how to implement......with some actual detail.

You say my problem is with my bank. Not 100% wrong, but no where near the actual truth as well.
 
Unless you're gaming the system and coming out of this whole ordeal ahead then save your thanks and praise for a "bailout" that we're all going to pay for and one that is only needed because the people handing you your own money as you say "thank you" were beyond inept in doing their actual jobs.

Even the $1200 "stimulus" for those that qualify is a joke as it's essentially only an early disbursement of your 2020 tax refund. And one that probably won't even arrive anytime soon as a lot of those same people struggle to even get an unemployment check in the next month.

So let's save any praise for the federal government, por favor. And let's be pretty diligent in evaluating our state level leaders too.
 
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Fightinibis said:
Yeah, your plan has to be better...let the entire economy collapse, panic and pandamonium, all in the name of not "giving out handouts" to the unemployed( including unemployment)...so that tons of you can vote for Bernie or Biden in search of full time socialism that neither have ever practiced themselves.

Some people are so hilarious, like there is some handbook for Presidents on exactly how to deal with a pandemic and a corrupt Congress and media at the same time.

Funnier is like an earlier post here claiming the whole world sees what a mess this plan has been, from banks to every voter, it's in shambles, and a single dime hasn't even distributed. These are the agenda driven individuals with TDS that argued there nothing wrong with the ObamaCare website or solar companies that he pushed so his corrupt buddies could get rich off pure incompetence. So ******* sad.

The reality? Nobody, especially Trump, wants something like this plan unless it was absolutely necessary. All the bull**** pork that Nancy and the liberal cartel put in there? Kennedy Center that is hurting (her family on the board)....huh? Where is this **** coming from? Trump finally just ssaid **** it...let's move on...the corrupt will be corrupt and put their needs first...this plan needs to get out even with this unreal garbage Pelosi and Schumer concocted that they had been waiting to push on the people.

This thing sucks...and our children and grandchildren will have to pay for it sadly (hopefully, unless libs get their Venezuelan utopia)...but it is necessary, and hopefully very temporary.
Click to expand...

The longer we delay the next deleveraging event the worse the consequences will be. That's just math.
 
Fawk_U Haters said:
I'm not saying the program was wrong and i get why it was done. It was needed and it was needed quickly. That isn't the premise. However like most things with the current leadership there are grand ideas and little to no actual plan for implementation. At some point in time a plan has to evolve with how to implement......with some actual detail.

You say my problem is with my bank. Not 100% wrong, but no where near the actual truth as well.
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Heads up there is a link to click on the Wells Fargo site bow. For the PPP. It's not a direct application but a setup to get back with their clients it seems like.
 
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Boarcane said:
this can’t be about politics or parties. The simple truth is, our government acted more quickly than it ever has before. I am so proud to be a tax paying American. This will be the first time I actually look to the government to help keep the economy going. This will be remembered, the 350 Billion to small businesses and the unemployment salary match, as some of the smartest parts of a bill passed in our countries history. 🇺🇸 Help is going to the working man, not wealthy publicly held companies with billion dollar market caps.
Click to expand...
Great to see the FED, democrats and republicans coming together to get all these aid programs put through. This is a great benefit of being the richest country in the world, we have the resources to weather the storm and help our people.
 
CFLCane said:
It's sadder that for the 2nd time in 12 years we're sponsoring corporate socialism on a massive scale.
Click to expand...
I dislike corporate socialism as much as socialism itself. This is different though. This is a government imposed shut down caused by disease but something that occurred in the business of business. Most of the companies sufferring the biggest damage are not at fault. It is more of a condemnation progress which requires compensation -- not a bailout or hand out at all. Now that might be less true of some industries or huge companies.

Oil for one is subject to debate. On one hand, a lot of the smaller operators and cracking operations were operating at super risky debt levels and are getting crushed by more than just the virus. Political risk is something and decent size company should consider. That said, energy independence is not something to just dismiss out of hand. I remember too well the OPEC embargo of early 70's.

Airlines have made a lot of money jamming us into little sardine carriers and have survived many a bankruptcy but are also big employers so debate could be had there -- jobs matter. Cruise lines are hardly necessity but again many local jobs are the ports in Miami and Ft Laud are at stake. Maybe making them reflag to US would be price of admission to assistance.

Then healthcare and hospitals will be lining up also. Don't forget school systems. Easy to see the political divide lining up for battle as we list the beggars. Professionally I could take big money for any of them and earn it -- but I am a retired attorney so being a ***** is muscle memory. The field is clear, everyone will get a bunch of our money as DC divvy it up. Heck, I don't like m kids much anyway.
 
CFLCane said:
It's sadder that for the 2nd time in 12 years we're sponsoring corporate socialism on a massive scale.
Click to expand...

Remember socialism is bad, ONLY when it helps individual Americans. It's one of the things about this country I'll never understand. We'll bail out businesses that make awful decisions, but a working American is one random disease away from possible debt slavery.

What drives me nuts about this joke of a program is that for the most part, small business owners are getting crumbs. We are starting to see banks run low on government guaranteed funds for small business. I hope they come back with a SBA exclusive package, because let's be honest, large corporations shouldn't be getting a dime of this money, especially corporations that engaged in huge stock buyback sprees with their tax cut winnings.
 
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Canedude08 said:
It's not a bottomless pool of money. WF, due to the asset cap only received so much, they can only loan what is available.
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Yep they are under very tight regulation because of their recent legal mess.

But this is going to be insta-funded government money. This is going to get cleared up soon I believe and they’ll be free to open up.
 
Gatorhater said:
I dislike corporate socialism as much as socialism itself. This is different though. This is a government imposed shut down caused by disease but something that occurred in the business of business. Most of the companies sufferring the biggest damage are not at fault. It is more of a condemnation progress which requires compensation -- not a bailout or hand out at all. Now that might be less true of some industries or huge companies.

Oil for one is subject to debate. On one hand, a lot of the smaller operators and cracking operations were operating at super risky debt levels and are getting crushed by more than just the virus. Political risk is something and decent size company should consider. That said, energy independence is not something to just dismiss out of hand. I remember too well the OPEC embargo of early 70's.

Airlines have made a lot of money jamming us into little sardine carriers and have survived many a bankruptcy but are also big employers so debate could be had there -- jobs matter. Cruise lines are hardly necessity but again many local jobs are the ports in Miami and Ft Laud are at stake. Maybe making them reflag to US would be price of admission to assistance.

Then healthcare and hospitals will be lining up also. Don't forget school systems. Easy to see the political divide lining up for battle as we list the beggars. Professionally I could take big money for any of them and earn it -- but I am a retired attorney so being a ***** is muscle memory. The field is clear, everyone will get a bunch of our money as DC divvy it up. Heck, I don't like m kids much anyway.
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1. I agree in a vacuum pandemic related bailouts are necessary. But only 8-12 years off the last recession we're leveraging ourselves into collapse territory. That's my main issue.

2. Energy independence can be achieved can be achieved through diversifying our energy with renewables. We need to be innovators in this not laggards. Shale is some lazy redneck bull****.
 
My observations on the PPP program and other Covid stimulus programs:
  • Finally the government gets something right. This isn't a Democrat or Republican bill, it's an American bill, and it is sound fiscal policy. There is no inflation, everyone wants to buy US Treasuries right now, so the government can print money and "lend" it to the banks at 0% or even negative interest right now to stimulate the economy
  • Execution has been spotty. I do worry that like in Katrina, the flood keeps rising, and we are all sitting on our rooftops waiting for the aid to come. It will come, but will it be too late? They need to clean up the policy inconsistencies, add resources to program execution, and get that money distributed ASAP.
  • I am a SBA 7a borrower, and applied through my SBA-approved bank yesterday (Sunday). Got confirmation from my bank only an hour or two later (yes, on a Sunday) that they successfully submitted my application. There is no commitment yet as to when the money will hit my bank account.
  • The PPP is actually a loan. Businesses get the smaller of 2.5x monthly payroll or 10M. The portion of loan that the business can prove it spent it on wages, rent/mortgage, utilities gets forgiven. The rest is paid back over 10 years at 4% interest. The borrower does not have to stay at full payroll, but the SBA may forgive a smaller percent of the loan if payroll is cut significantly. The portion of wages that go to income taxes are not forgiven but must be repaid under the loan terms.
  • In additional to the PPP, small businesses can apply for a Covid19 Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) based upon the pandemic's impact on their Gross Margin and P&L. This program actually preceded the PPP, and is run directly through the SBA not through its approved banks. The SBA has not quite figured out how to connect the two programs (PPP and EIDL), so you have to apply separately. The interest on this loan is 3.75% over 30 years.
    • It's was a complete mess trying to apply to the EIDL, with them changing the website instructions 3 times in the same week. I was hung up on after waiting on the SBA help line behind 1500+ other callers for 2.5 hours ... twice! But I finally did get through to someone on the third attempt, and finally did submit my application successfully online 10 days ago, then faxed it in for good measure 6 days ago. Since then, I have received no notification on my application for either submission, and have no idea when/if it will be approved, or when/if I will receive the money.
  • In addition to the above, my SBA 7a loan will be paid by the government, both principal and interest, for 6 months. This is frickin amazing! I did not need to apply for that, it comes as part of the rest of the program.
  • Net/net, there is no question my small business is going to go deeper into debt. But it will survive. And the government programs will allow me to recall my furloughed employees so they're not just collecting unemployment benefits. Given the situation, I think that's a win/win/win

A few observations about the crisis:
  • We wouldn't have needed such a large stimulus package if we had listened to the epidemiologists in December and January, but at least we got it right once the **** hit the fan.
  • We need a national shelter in place policy immediately. The president, along with the governors who waited until recently to require social distancing -- some still reuse to go on lockdown -- are prolonging the crisis. In the best scenario, we get through this by end of June. But because some politicians are still not listening to science, we may see this **** pandemic continue to impact us through August, or worse, reappear as contagious Americans migrate to clean geographies. Think of all those snow birds in Soth Florida going back to the North East.
  • If we aren't back to normal social behaviors by July, get ready, the government will need to rinse and repeat this package.
 
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Not sure why we're talking about corporate welfare or corporate socialism here. Whatever company takes advantage of these programs will end up with more debt. It is a certainty. I know a lot of business owners, and not one of them is going to come out of this crisis with more money than they went into it. Not one. Meanwhile, they will also rehire or take off furlough a huge number of workers that otherwise would have had to go onto unemployment. That's goodness all around.

In general, I entirely agree that we are too indebted. I am an active listener of Knowledge@Wharton podcasts, and there were several episodes discussing the $2T tax cut and how it was sub-optimal and potentially harmful to long-term economic growth. So even the best and brightest economics and finance experts think we could do better. But this stimulus package was essential. We were headed straight for a brick wall at 100 mph before it. And we very well may need to have more stimulus to weather this storm.
 
CaneOil said:
Why the **** don't Americans save some money for a rainy day. Even the low wage earners can have their 200 phone bills, high speed internet, 100 dollar cable bills, new cars, houses they can't afford. It's time they teach kids in school how to be responsible and how to save. Same with these businesses. How can we have so many ******* dumb people in this country? I've said it I feel better.
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You don’t really understand how business works do you?
 
Go Canes!! said:
Yep they are under very tight regulation because of their recent legal mess.

But this is going to be insta-funded government money. This is going to get cleared up soon I believe and they’ll be free to open up.
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WF should have learned from Chase and B of A, lobbying money makes a world of difference. What was going on at Wells was awful(and unethical as ****), but high pressure sales culture is a feature of the financial services industry. I've talked to people at multiple places, there is pressure everywhere, where Wells went wrong was that their risk management apparatus sucked. You should be able to easily ferret out people that are opening tons of accounts without explanation. You should be able to clamp down on people who had credit cards opened without their consent(You should always have signatures on these applications, and they should be getting audited regularly).

That said, it is what it is, and it's something that has to get corrected. I just laugh when people like Elizabeth Warren portray Wells as some unique outlier, when in reality, a lack of regulation on the part of financial services firms make this an industry problem. Sketchy people are all around the industry, most are playing the "It's not illegal if I don't get caught" game.
 
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