MEGA New Miami Adidas Ultraboost🔥 - The Shoe and Nike/Adidas Thread.

[Rellyrell]

I see absolutely no proof except some strange brand loyalty. Meanwhile I've posted data again and again and again and again and again and again showing Nike is getting hammered. How many more times do you need to see the data?

Nike is losing sales, it's dropping it's sales forecast, it's on a terrible streak, it's losing massive chunks of its core running shoe market share. Nike has not kept up and the brand is struggling.

The dumbest thing you posted was that DTC was good for Nike. Nike literally fired the CEO because of it. What are you even talking about? I was exactly accurate in my original post when I described how stupid it was and how he had to be replaced. I was exactly accurate when I posted how they lost market share due to Nike ******** over the shops. Meanwhile Hoka now has 25%-50% (I've seen both data sets) market share from the shops. Hoka stepped in and stole that business. This was a huge self own. But hey Nike is like a god or something to you and is perfect in every way.

Listen, Holmes, there’s only one or two posters I’ll read diatribes, & u ain’t @TheOriginalCane

Therefore, between u & me:

 

[ShadowSpring]

As has been explained previously, the majority of this "not selling shoes as quickly" and "seven consecutive negative sales quarters" is due to Jiiiina. And we've all acknowledged those issues.

Has Nike had "seven consecutive negative sales quarters" in collegiate merchandise? Or NFL merchandise? Doubtful.

I get it, Nike has work to do on the shoe side. Not as far as "quality" goes (though I really can't speak to the running shoe market), but they need to make more profit on shoes generally.

I just think the Swoosh funeral is premature.

Bro you've got like 4 or 5 of Nike's competitors seeing 20, 30, 40, sometimes even 50% growth in sales. That data isn't due just to China. There is a running shoe boom, and just cause the numbers don't look so bad for Nike due to that boom, they are still getting clobbered. If you've lost that market share, when the boom is over you will really feel it.

I agree there won't be a funeral. They need to repair relationships with retail shops and release some great products. As I was corrected earlier Nike is still doing well with track athletes etc. When I think of Nike they've always had that in their bag. My opinion is they need to focus on being a true athletic shoe/apparel innovator again.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Listen, Holmes, there’s only one or two posters I’ll read diatribes, & u ain’t @TheOriginalCane

Therefore, between u & me:

In other word you give up.

You've said a bunch of nonsense today. This is too easy bro. The data is just not on your side.

Whenever you come up with 'proof' let me know.

 

[Rellyrell]

In other word you give up.

You've said a bunch of nonsense today. This is too easy bro. The data is just not on your side.

Whenever you come up with 'proof' let me know.

Give up? This was never a debate. Lol. I’m just tired of being ur Dr Phil w/o getting compensated. Lol.

U don’t know who TF I am, so there is no debate on things I actually know, & my track record on this particular here subject e.g letting CIS know athletes signing w Nike or Jordan 2-3 months in advance, teams that will be switching 1-2 yrs in advance, Nike’s stock after the Olympics, etc. etc. shows I don’t need to argue w u, b/c in actuality who is u?

****, I wasn’t even responding to u, fr fr…I just used ur porst as a means to educate the board on ur misinformation.

But that response is all I need to know; u’re emotional, brother.

 

[ShadowSpring]

In other word you give up.

You've said a bunch of nonsense today. This is too easy bro. The data is just not on your side.

Whenever you come up with 'proof' let me know.

Give up? This was never a debate. Lol. I’m just tired of being ur Dr Phil w/o getting compensated. Lol.

U don’t know who TF I am, so there is no debate on things I actually know, & my track record on this particular here subject e.g letting CIS know athletes signing w Nike or Jordan 2-3 months in advance, teams that will be switching 1-2 yrs in advance, Nike’s stock after the Olympics, etc. etc. shows I don’t need to argue w u, b/c in actuality who is u?

****, I wasn’t even responding to u, fr fr…I just used ur porst as a means to educate the board on ur misinformation.

But that response is all I need to know; u’re emotional, brother.

I'm still waiting on you to 'ether' me. Literally all in doing here is posting facts and data. But yeah your an expert that apparently doesn't know what you are talking about or too loyal to a brand to admit it. It's taken me roughly 5 minutes to get the data I needed.

But yeah next time you are on a run with a club, pay special attention to the number of folks not wearing Nike. I'll give you a hint, it's waaaaay less than it was 5 years ago. Think of me when that sinks in and say it loud with all your chest, 7 straight quarters of decreasing sales.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Give up? This was never a debate. Lol. I’m just tired of being ur Dr Phil w/o getting compensated. Lol.

U don’t know who TF I am, so there is no debate on things I actually know, & my track record on this particular here subject e.g letting CIS know athletes signing w Nike or Jordan 2-3 months in advance, teams that will be switching 1-2 yrs in advance, Nike’s stock after the Olympics, etc. etc. shows I don’t need to argue w u, b/c in actuality who is u?

****, I wasn’t even responding to u, fr fr…I just used ur porst as a means to educate the board on ur misinformation.

But that response is all I need to know; u’re emotional, brother.

Just walk away. It's not worth it.

 

[Rellyrell]

I'm still waiting on you to 'ether' me. Literally all in doing here is posting facts and data. But yeah your an expert that apparently doesn't know what you are talking about or too loyal to a brand to admit it. It's taken me roughly 5 minutes to get the data I needed.

But yeah next time you are on a run with a club, pay special attention to the number of folks not wearing Nike. I'll give you a hint, it's waaaaay less than it was 5 years ago. Think of me when that sinks in and say it loud with all your chest, 7 straight quarters of decreasing sales.

& I’ve already thoroughly expounded on ur “facts & data” by bringing context. U then went on some running rant, b/c u didn’t like that I said Nike’s running division is keeping them stable, so what did I do? Post a recent article showing how despite the turmoil, Nike’s running division has actually gained market share. U’ve been peppered by myself and others with ACTUAL data debunking a lot of **** u’ve said, so my friend, b/c I don’t care for ur type on this board, welcome to my block list.

So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, adieu.

 

[Garnacho]

Again we are taking here about consumers and sales. According to this logic everything is fine at Nike and there's no problems. So why are they not selling shoes as quickly as their competitors and have seven consecutive negative sales quarters? The argument isn't nobody is wearing Nike, as it's absurd. They are losing market share. I know nothing about track athletes nor what they are wearing. Perhaps Nike is doing well in that category.

Honestly, I think you’re speaking of a niche market that peaked 10 years ago and then had a little renaissance from Covid. It’s still an important market for Nike’s reputation but it’s not as critical as Asia or its lifestyle dilemma. And honestly, it’s a fad-driven niche market and I feel like they addressed the fad with making the Vomero a high stack shoe, just like they did with the Nike Free 20 years ago when minimalist was the fad. But as far as “PERFORMANCE” goes, Nike is the R&D king and literally every super-spike and super-shoe, including Hoka’s, is a copy of what Nike introduced 10 years ago.

 

[ShadowSpring]

I'm still waiting on you to 'ether' me. Literally all in doing here is posting facts and data. But yeah your an expert that apparently doesn't know what you are talking about or too loyal to a brand to admit it. It's taken me roughly 5 minutes to get the data I needed.

But yeah next time you are on a run with a club, pay special attention to the number of folks not wearing Nike. I'll give you a hint, it's waaaaay less than it was 5 years ago. Think of me when that sinks in and say it loud with all your chest, 7 straight quarters of decreasing sales.

& I’ve already thoroughly expounded on ur “facts & data” by bringing context. U then went on some running rant, b/c u didn’t like that I said Nike’s running division is keeping them stable, so what did I do? Post a recent article showing how despite the turmoil, Nike’s running division has actually gained market share. U’ve been peppered by myself and others with ACTUAL data debunking a lot of **** u’ve said, so my friend, b/c I don’t care for ur type on this board, welcome to my block list.

So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, adieu.

I love math. Let's use some math! Maybe throw in some context.

Nike running saw roughly 10 to 15% increase in running shoe sales. That article said double digits. Sounds impressive BUT maybe it's not. This is a loss of market share tho because there's a running shoe boom. Shoe and apparel companies are killing it, that aren't named Nike. Adidas saw a gain of 30%. On Cloud is up 50%. Hoka is up anywhere from 30 to 50% currently, they've been averaging 50%. New Balance is up 20-30% and up 180% since 2020. Brooks is up 23% with 9 straight years of increasing sales, especially painful for Nike is they are up over 100% in China, killing them. Skechers is up roughly 18%, but has been taking market share for years. Was hoping for better numbers as I do like Skechers running shoes. Salomon is also up and surprised to see this, 30%. I almost forgot Asics, and yup you guessed it, they are up 23%. So no, nope, nada. Nike is losing market share rapidly. Nike is getting an ever smaller piece of what is overall a growing pie. When or if running shoe demand slows overall Nike is really going to be in trouble.

With numbers like this from its competitors, like are we really gonna be like yeah it's not so bad Nike is down 2% overall? YES ITS VERY BAD. How are you down 2% when most of your competitors are up like 30%?

I need to sell shoes, some of these numbers are insane. Hopefully these people are running and not just wearing comfortable shoes.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Again we are taking here about consumers and sales. According to this logic everything is fine at Nike and there's no problems. So why are they not selling shoes as quickly as their competitors and have seven consecutive negative sales quarters? The argument isn't nobody is wearing Nike, as it's absurd. They are losing market share. I know nothing about track athletes nor what they are wearing. Perhaps Nike is doing well in that category.

Honestly, I think you’re speaking of a niche market that peaked 10 years ago and then had a little renaissance from Covid. It’s still an important market for Nike’s reputation but it’s not as critical as Asia or its lifestyle dilemma. And honestly, it’s a fad-driven niche market and I feel like they addressed the fad with making the Vomero a high stack shoe, just like they did with the Nike Free 20 years ago when minimalist was the fad. But as far as “PERFORMANCE” goes, Nike is the R&D king and literally every super-spike and super-shoe, including Hoka’s, is a copy of what Nike introduced 10 years ago.

I agree with a good chunk of this and clearly you know more about track athletes. But I will just point out you said released 10 years ago. Yeah Nike was always releasing something innovative. They started the plate shoe race with the Vaporfly. Nike needs to get back to that. It's been a while. That's the Nike I grew up with.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Bro you've got like 4 or 5 of Nike's competitors seeing 20, 30, 40, sometimes even 50% growth in sales. That data isn't due just to China. There is a running shoe boom, and just cause the numbers don't look so bad for Nike due to that boom, they are still getting clobbered. If you've lost that market share, when the boom is over you will really feel it.

I agree there won't be a funeral. They need to repair relationships with retail shops and release some great products. As I was corrected earlier Nike is still doing well with track athletes etc. When I think of Nike they've always had that in their bag. My opinion is they need to focus on being a true athletic shoe/apparel innovator again.

My brother, I can try to help you with math and statistics, if you are willing.

A competitor's "percentage growth" in sales does NOT correspond to an equal decline in Nike's sales. The reason is the BASE of the comparison.

Thus, if a competitor has $1,000 of sales, and then they grow FIFTY PERCENT, that means they now have $1,500 of sales. But if Nike's sales are $100 million, then they barely notice that they lost $500 of sales. The percentage that Nike "loses" is miniscule.

And that's just in a case where the entire market isn't GROWING. For instance, it's possible for the competitor to have $500 more sales AND for Nike to have more sales.

Never forget the Mark Twain quote about "lies, **** lies, and statistics".

All along, you have treated "sales growth percentages" as being some zero-sum game that harms Nike. And you are citing statistics in one segment of the industry, running shoes. Meanwhile, I haven't heard that these smaller competitors are making similar gains in, say, basketball shoes. Has Hoka or On released a model that competes with the 41 Air Jordan models? Let me know when THAT happens.

I wasn't wrong when I said that Nike has lost a lot of volume AND profit in China. That is absolutely true. And my point doesn't necessarily detract from your points. I'm simply saying that while a few competitors have made inroads in one sneaker segment, the MUCH LARGER VOLUME that Nike sells means that, while annoying, the percentage "drop" on the Nike side isn't nearly as significant TO NIKE.

Statistics are tricky.

 

[sedlst11]

I love math. Let's use some math! Maybe throw in some context.

Nike running saw roughly 10 to 15% increase in running shoe sales. That article said double digits. Sounds impressive BUT maybe it's not. This is a loss of market share tho because there's a running shoe boom. Shoe and apparel companies are killing it, that aren't named Nike. Adidas saw a gain of 30%. On Cloud is up 50%. Hoka is up anywhere from 30 to 50% currently, they've been averaging 50%. New Balance is up 20-30% and up 180% since 2020. Brooks is up 23% with 9 straight years of increasing sales, especially painful for Nike is they are up over 100% in China, killing them. Skechers is up roughly 18%, but has been taking market share for years. Was hoping for better numbers as I do like Skechers running shoes. Salomon is also up and surprised to see this, 30%. I almost forgot Asics, and yup you guessed it, they are up 23%. So no, nope, nada. Nike is losing market share rapidly. Nike is getting an ever smaller piece of what is overall a growing pie. When or if running shoe demand slows overall Nike is really going to be in trouble.

With numbers like this from its competitors, like are we really gonna be like yeah it's not so bad Nike is down 2% overall? YES ITS VERY BAD. How are you down 2% when most of your competitors are up like 30%?

I need to sell shoes, some of these numbers are insane. Hopefully these people are running and not just wearing comfortable shoes.

What’s pumas numbers looking like? I know they’ve capitalized on the Hyrox market. But people scoff at the running but guess what everyone can run and if they buy shoes from those brands, guess what else they’re buying from there clothes too.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I love math. Let's use some math! Maybe throw in some context.

Nike running saw roughly 10 to 15% increase in running shoe sales. That article said double digits. Sounds impressive BUT maybe it's not. This is a loss of market share tho because there's a running shoe boom. Shoe and apparel companies are killing it, that aren't named Nike. Adidas saw a gain of 30%. On Cloud is up 50%. Hoka is up anywhere from 30 to 50% currently, they've been averaging 50%. New Balance is up 20-30% and up 180% since 2020. Brooks is up 23% with 9 straight years of increasing sales, especially painful for Nike is they are up over 100% in China, killing them. Skechers is up roughly 18%, but has been taking market share for years. Was hoping for better numbers as I do like Skechers running shoes. Salomon is also up and surprised to see this, 30%. I almost forgot Asics, and yup you guessed it, they are up 23%. So no, nope, nada. Nike is losing market share rapidly. Nike is getting an ever smaller piece of what is overall a growing pie. When or if running shoe demand slows overall Nike is really going to be in trouble.

With numbers like this from its competitors, like are we really gonna be like yeah it's not so bad Nike is down 2% overall? YES ITS VERY BAD. How are you down 2% when most of your competitors are up like 30%?

I need to sell shoes, some of these numbers are insane. Hopefully these people are running and not just wearing comfortable shoes.

Again, you CANNOT simply compare percentages in a vacuum. They are NOT the same.

Up 30%? What's the base? $100K? Yay, that translates to $30K more sales.

Down 2%? What's the base? $50B? Nobody is happy to lose a billion dollars in sales, but they still sold $49B.

ONE SEGMENT worth of sales percentages doesn't tell the whole story. How are On Cloud, Hoka, New Balance, Brooks, Skechers, and Asics doing in basketball shoes? Tennis shoes? Lifestyle shoes? Training shoes? Soccer shoes? Sandals/slides? APPAREL?

I'm not mad, and I'm not a one-brand fanboy, but come on, man, let's look at the total picture.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Bro you've got like 4 or 5 of Nike's competitors seeing 20, 30, 40, sometimes even 50% growth in sales. That data isn't due just to China. There is a running shoe boom, and just cause the numbers don't look so bad for Nike due to that boom, they are still getting clobbered. If you've lost that market share, when the boom is over you will really feel it.

I agree there won't be a funeral. They need to repair relationships with retail shops and release some great products. As I was corrected earlier Nike is still doing well with track athletes etc. When I think of Nike they've always had that in their bag. My opinion is they need to focus on being a true athletic shoe/apparel innovator again.

My brother, I can try to help you with math and statistics, if you are willing.

A competitor's "percentage growth" in sales does NOT correspond to an equal decline in Nike's sales. The reason is the BASE of the comparison.

Thus, if a competitor has $1,000 of sales, and then they grow FIFTY PERCENT, that means they now have $1,500 of sales. But if Nike's sales are $100 million, then they barely notice that they lost $500 of sales. The percentage that Nike "loses" is miniscule.

And that's just in a case where the entire market isn't GROWING. For instance, it's possible for the competitor to have $500 more sales AND for Nike to have more sales.

Never forget the Mark Twain quote about "lies, **** lies, and statistics".

All along, you have treated "sales growth percentages" as being some zero-sum game that harms Nike. And you are citing statistics in one segment of the industry, running shoes. Meanwhile, I haven't heard that these smaller competitors are making similar gains in, say, basketball shoes. Has Hoka or On released a model that competes with the 41 Air Jordan models? Let me know when THAT happens.

I wasn't wrong when I said that Nike has lost a lot of volume AND profit in China. That is absolutely true. And my point doesn't necessarily detract from your points. I'm simply saying that while a few competitors have made inroads in one sneaker segment, the MUCH LARGER VOLUME that Nike sells means that, while annoying, the percentage "drop" on the Nike side isn't nearly as significant TO NIKE.

Statistics are tricky.

Bro. Nike is down 2% last quarter and 7 straight quarters. Their competitors are killing them. Not just in China. Just killing it. These numbers are kinda shocking. I knew it was bad because I'm a runner and I see people aren't wearing Nike like in accustomed my whole life. So going into this I knew I won the argument before I started. It wasn't fair to start. There's nothing else to say about it.

I feel like I've been negative towards what is a great American brand too much. I'm just going to say I hope they get it figured out.

But yeah with AI scaring young folks in the job market, maybe the shoe business is a prime career. Business is booming!

 

[ShadowSpring]

I love math. Let's use some math! Maybe throw in some context.

Nike running saw roughly 10 to 15% increase in running shoe sales. That article said double digits. Sounds impressive BUT maybe it's not. This is a loss of market share tho because there's a running shoe boom. Shoe and apparel companies are killing it, that aren't named Nike. Adidas saw a gain of 30%. On Cloud is up 50%. Hoka is up anywhere from 30 to 50% currently, they've been averaging 50%. New Balance is up 20-30% and up 180% since 2020. Brooks is up 23% with 9 straight years of increasing sales, especially painful for Nike is they are up over 100% in China, killing them. Skechers is up roughly 18%, but has been taking market share for years. Was hoping for better numbers as I do like Skechers running shoes. Salomon is also up and surprised to see this, 30%. I almost forgot Asics, and yup you guessed it, they are up 23%. So no, nope, nada. Nike is losing market share rapidly. Nike is getting an ever smaller piece of what is overall a growing pie. When or if running shoe demand slows overall Nike is really going to be in trouble.

With numbers like this from its competitors, like are we really gonna be like yeah it's not so bad Nike is down 2% overall? YES ITS VERY BAD. How are you down 2% when most of your competitors are up like 30%?

I need to sell shoes, some of these numbers are insane. Hopefully these people are running and not just wearing comfortable shoes.

What’s pumas numbers looking like? I know they’ve capitalized on the Hyrox market. But people scoff at the running but guess what everyone can run and if they buy shoes from those brands, guess what else they’re buying from there clothes too.

Puma is down 5 to 10%. They cut some jobs earlier in the year. I don't know much about that brand. I've only had 1 pair of puma running shoes 7 or 8 years ago, they were pretty good actually.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Anyone tried the Adidas Dropset Pro? This guy is basically saying it's the best shoe on the market in any category and basically the best shoe ever. Saying it does literally everything. I usually catch sales on year old models but I may try these.

 

[Garnacho]

I love math. Let's use some math! Maybe throw in some context.

Nike running saw roughly 10 to 15% increase in running shoe sales. That article said double digits. Sounds impressive BUT maybe it's not. This is a loss of market share tho because there's a running shoe boom. Shoe and apparel companies are killing it, that aren't named Nike. Adidas saw a gain of 30%. On Cloud is up 50%. Hoka is up anywhere from 30 to 50% currently, they've been averaging 50%. New Balance is up 20-30% and up 180% since 2020. Brooks is up 23% with 9 straight years of increasing sales, especially painful for Nike is they are up over 100% in China, killing them. Skechers is up roughly 18%, but has been taking market share for years. Was hoping for better numbers as I do like Skechers running shoes. Salomon is also up and surprised to see this, 30%. I almost forgot Asics, and yup you guessed it, they are up 23%. So no, nope, nada. Nike is losing market share rapidly. Nike is getting an ever smaller piece of what is overall a growing pie. When or if running shoe demand slows overall Nike is really going to be in trouble.

With numbers like this from its competitors, like are we really gonna be like yeah it's not so bad Nike is down 2% overall? YES ITS VERY BAD. How are you down 2% when most of your competitors are up like 30%?

I need to sell shoes, some of these numbers are insane. Hopefully these people are running and not just wearing comfortable shoes.

China is probably the best place to start here and I’ll start with running shoes. First, Brooks is owned by Berkshire and they just entered the China market maybe 4 years ago with close to $0 sales. So 100% growth is pretty bad considering what they are spending. Berkshire was actually asked about this and the CEO said it was a 50 year plan. They have been spending hundreds of millions just to have crumbs in the future. But this and Brooks as a whole, are a rounding error for Berkshire. This is so inconsequential that they don’t even address it in their SEC filings, hence it being addressed at a shareholder weekend.

Anta and Li-Ning are who Nike is in the arena with. These are the ones taking significant market share in China. Anta is also buying distressed Western assets like Puma. This has Nike’s attention.

And Asia is where the action is. Not only is China a massive growing market but there are other potential massive markets that have not even been tapped into yet.

Good for Hoka and On, for doing well in the US running shoe market but the real game is out East

 

[ShadowSpring]

China is probably the best place to start here and I’ll start with running shoes. First, Brooks is owned by Berkshire and they just entered the China market maybe 4 years ago with close to $0 sales. So 100% growth is pretty bad considering what they are spending. Berkshire was actually asked about this and the CEO said it was a 50 year plan. They have been spending hundreds of millions just to have crumbs in the future. But this and Brooks as a whole, are a rounding error for Berkshire. This is so inconsequential that they don’t even address it in their SEC filings, hence it being addressed at a shareholder weekend.

Anta and Li-Ning are who Nike is in the arena with. These are the ones taking significant market share in China. Anta is also buying distressed Western assets like Puma. This has Nike’s attention.

And Asia is where the action is. Not only is China a massive growing market but there are other potential massive markets that have not even been tapped into yet.

Good for Hoka and On, for doing well in the US running shoe market but the real game is out East

You seem to be right. I will add when pulling these numbers i did see consistent growth in the US market but yeah the China and international market as they called it were always higher for just about all of them.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

You seem to be right. I will add when pulling these numbers i did see consistent growth in the US market but yeah the China and international market as they called it were always higher for just about all of them.

And that's all I was trying to say earlier. NOT that the US issues are insignificant, but that the MAJORITY of the financial impact for Nike is due to China COMPANIES (such as Li-Ning and Anta) and the China MARKET (as well as other nearby Asian markets which are heavily linked to China).

It's not about arguing, it's just about getting the right analysis. And whether you are against Nike or not, you initially came out hot with "blackball Nike" and "declining company", so I just want to have a fair and clean picture, because it's nice to have a good working relationship if we ever decide to do business with Nike in the future. Phil Knight won't live forever, and Miami's about to win another 4 or 5 natty's before Oregon ever wins its first.

 

[sedlst11]

Puma is down 5 to 10%. They cut some jobs earlier in the year. I don't know much about that brand. I've only had 1 pair of puma running shoes 7 or 8 years ago, they were pretty good actually.

Try out these for daily runner. They’re very good.

Deviate Pure NITRO™ Men's Running Shoes | PUMA

Deviate Pure NITRO™ Road Running Shoes are ready for training and daily runs with lightweight NITROFOAM™ cushioning and a flexible ride. No plate, just smooth propulsion, so you can pick up the pace when it feels right.

us.puma.com