Myth Buster: Talent or Coaching?

This is really well done & interesting. First thought is not all Blue Chips & 5 stars are the same. We’ve not signed close to the level of elite talent as Bama, UGA & even Clemson - forget what the stars say.

Second, recruiting services & the star system aren’t the end all. Some elite players a blind man could identify. But a lot of this stuff is guess work & very in exact science. Could spend all day discussing player evaluation & projects.

Next is stability within the program. The elites - Bama, UGA & Clemson have long-term stability at the top. Assistant come & go, but the program is what it is & replacements adapt to the system.

Could go on & on, but last thing mentioned is QB play. You can have all the other pieces, but if QB also isn’t high level & at least a competent game manager it’s gonna be struggle. Can look back to Mario’s last QB at Oregon - transfer from BC - or Richt’s demise at UGA. Talented teams, but subpar QB play.

So, lot of factors go into long-term success.
 
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⚠️ Lengthy Post‼️‼️ ⚠️

There’s a lot of myths that’s plagued our society: The Lockness Monster, Big Foot, Kim Kardashian’s *** being real; but, no myth has divided the CIS society into factions none other than the debate of Miami not having enough talent vs. coaching. This subject is as divisive as if Miami should have its own stadium, Miami is broke, & if Miller Lite is truly less filling or if it indeed taste great.

I wanted to examine this notion from several angles, looking at polar opposite ends of the spectrum regarding top tier programs who are flushed w/ talent (e.g Bama) and successful programs without the same caliber of talent (e.g Baylor) to see where we fall. I will also look at how we’ve faired when it comes to blue chip success, and finally I will take a look at how we compare to our contemporaries in the woeful ACC Coastal.

The starting point I’ll use is 2007; why? B/c in 2007, two seismic hires took place that changed two historic programs’ fate, Miami & Alabama.

BLUE CHIP ACQUISITION-

Let’s first examine 6 programs in regards to blue chip acquisition since 2007 - present: Alabama, UGA, Clemson, Utah, Baylor, & TCU. (Please note: I did not take into account player attrition for any program since it all washes it out, but I did take in consideration transfer-in from The Transfer Portal).

-Alabama: 342 blue chip players (71 Five-Stars)
-UGA: 268 blue chip players (54 Five-Stars)
-Clemson: 188 blue chip players (28 Five-Stars)
-TCU: 58 blue chip players (1 Five-Star)
-Baylor: 41 blue chip players (2 Five-Stars)
-Utah: 37 blue chip players

How does Miami compare? 179 blue chip players (12 Five-Stars).

Conclusion on talent acquisition: While we have not hoarded the same amount of blue chip talent as three of the most dominant programs since 2007, it was interesting to see how we’ve been fairly on par w/ Clemson in regards to acquiring total blue chips during this time frame.

With that being said, let’s see what we’ve done with such acquisitions, comparably, with the draft (to gage why we may struggle to get high end blue chips to consistently consider us).

THE DRAFT (I’ll only focus on the top 3 teams compared to Miami in this exercise, since we love to blame bags for everything as an excuse)-

*The classes of 2007-2020 are the only ones that have been drafted or draft eligible since 2010-2023.*
-Bama had 259 blue chips (50 Five-Stars)
-UGA had 202 blue chips (40 Five-Stars)
-Clemson had 142 blue chips (22 Five-Stars)
-Miami had 132 blue chips (7 Five-Stars)

-Bama:
38% of Bama’s total blue chips were drafted (99)
68% of their 5* were drafted
72% of Bama’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

-UGA:
33.6% of UGA’s total blue chips were drafted (68)
67.5% of their 5* were drafted
48.5% of UGA’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

-Clemson:
31.6% of Clemson’s total blue chips were drafted (45)
77% of their 5* were drafted
60% of Clemson’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

Miami:
28% of Miami’s blue chips drafted (27)
86% of our 5* were drafted
32% of our drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

Conclusion on The NFL Drafts: This could explain why high end players are not beating down our doors with consistency; the blue chip players we’ve acquired, we’ve done far less in not only getting them drafted, but the draft position for our blue chips have well below sub-par.

RECORDS SINCE 2007 (Let’s deep dive in the notion of talent vs. coaching)-

-Bama: 194-27
-Clemson: 173-46
-UGA: 166-49
-TCU: 142-63
-Utah: 138-64
-Baylor: 114-88

Miami? 116-84

In this example, Miami has the 6th worst record out of two polar opposite ends of the spectrum. We can reason why Miami would have a worst record than Bama, UGA, & Clemson due to a talent discrepancy, but Utah, and TCU??
-We’ve acquired 300% more blue chips than TCU
-We’ve acquired almost 500% more blue chips than Utah
-We’ve acquired about 430% more blue chips than Baylor;

Yet, since 2007:
-TCU has won 10+ games 8x (including 4 Conference Titles, 9 bowl games {3 NY6 bowls}).
-Utah has won 10+ games 7x, (including 3 Conference Titles, 10 bowl games {1 NY6 bowl})
-Baylor has won 10+ games 5x (including 3 Conference Titles, 6 bowl games {1 NY6 bowl})

Miami? One 10 win season, and one bowl victory since 2007.

Utah, TCU, & Baylor are also doing this as under dogs, having far less than talent than the likes of USC, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma or equal talent as the likes of UCLA, Washington, Iowa St, & OK St. Which brings me to

THE ACC COASTAL AND HOW WE COMPARE-

Unlike TCU, Utah, & Baylor, we’ve out recruited every single team in our division since 2007.

Blue Chip Acquisition during that time:
-UNC: 107 (6 Five-Stars)
-VT: 69 (2 Five-Stars)
-UVA: 35 (2 Five-Stars)
-GT: 33
-Pitt: 25 (since joining the ACC in 2013)
-Duke: 11

Yet, here’s our record against said opponents:
UNC: 6-10
VT: 9-7
UVA: 9-7
GT: 10-5
Pitt: 7-3
Duke: 12-4

So is this a talent issue, or have something else been going on?

Final Conclusion: Yes, we have experienced a plethora of attrition; however, if u compare our attrition and stack the remaining roster talent/season to the majority of the teams we’ve faced annually, on paper, we’ve still had more than enough talent.

The NFL draft agrees with that assessment:
Since 2007-
-Miami: 57 Players Drafted (19 in first 3 rounds)
-UNC: 43 Players Drafted (20 in first 3 rounds)
-VT: 34 Players Drafted (11 in first 3 rounds)
-Pitt: 29 Players Drafted (7 in the first 3 rounds)
-GT: 19 Players Drafted (4 in the first 3 rounds)
-Duke: 9 Players Drafted (2 in the first 3 rounds)

Imo, the fate of Miami’s program is all cumulative. It’s not a coincidence that programs like Baylor, Utah, & TCU have thrived in a CFB world filled w/ handlers, w/ big fish choosing bigger programs; that’s coaching. Then again, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that programs like Bama, UGA, & Clemson are thriving w/ the shear amount of 5 stars & blue chips they’ve acquired; we can say that’s talent.

With Miami, we’re neither Bama-esque nor Utah-esque when it comes to talent or coaching. We should have enough talent to be a perennial 10 win team + winning the division (which is no longer an option), but the coaching has been putrid.

Every top program I’ve studied all have one thing in common: dedication and commitment from the top-down. With Miami, we’ve seen apathy from the admin, lazy hires filled with cronyism and nepotism, and a lack of semblance both at the AD and coaching levels. To constantly hide behind the theory of “Miami doesn’t have talent or enough talent” is foolish and disingenuous. Once upon a time, I believed that, but when I see other programs filled w/ non blue chip caliber rosters, taking down much tougher opponents, it puts things into perspective.

The hardest thing for anyone to do is face truth b/c it hurts. The NFL draft is a reminder that the program has some work to do, but with this renewed dedication, it shouldn’t take 5 yrs. There’s too many past and current examples showing that a turn around can be done in two yrs. Hopefully moving forwards, we’ll have a definitive answer vs. a theory of talent vs. coaching; I’m of the opinion we’ll have both, but this season will have give me an even more definitive answer one way or another.
My goodness that's a ****load of research and typing. Good stuff and well worth the read. Thanks 👊🏾
 
2 of the worst evals in recent memory were Joe Brown and Zalontae Hilery. Both were not D1 players at all.
 
Clemson average last year was 91.15 and Miami was 89.68. Clemson had 12 5 stars, 39 4 stars, and 29 3 stars. Miami had 2 5 stars, 44 4 stars, and 35 3 stars.
Yea, that’s a BIG gap in talent. Our averages are probably closer to North Carolina, even with us having “more blue chips”
 
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⚠️ Lengthy Post‼️‼️ ⚠️

There’s a lot of myths that’s plagued our society: The Lockness Monster, Big Foot, Kim Kardashian’s *** being real; but, no myth has divided the CIS society into factions none other than the debate of Miami not having enough talent vs. coaching. This subject is as divisive as if Miami should have its own stadium, Miami is broke, & if Miller Lite is truly less filling or if it indeed taste great.

I wanted to examine this notion from several angles, looking at polar opposite ends of the spectrum regarding top tier programs who are flushed w/ talent (e.g Bama) and successful programs without the same caliber of talent (e.g Baylor) to see where we fall. I will also look at how we’ve faired when it comes to blue chip success, and finally I will take a look at how we compare to our contemporaries in the woeful ACC Coastal.

The starting point I’ll use is 2007; why? B/c in 2007, two seismic hires took place that changed two historic programs’ fate, Miami & Alabama.

BLUE CHIP ACQUISITION-

Let’s first examine 6 programs in regards to blue chip acquisition since 2007 - present: Alabama, UGA, Clemson, Utah, Baylor, & TCU. (Please note: I did not take into account player attrition for any program since it all washes it out, but I did take in consideration transfer-in from The Transfer Portal).

-Alabama: 342 blue chip players (71 Five-Stars)
-UGA: 268 blue chip players (54 Five-Stars)
-Clemson: 188 blue chip players (28 Five-Stars)
-TCU: 58 blue chip players (1 Five-Star)
-Baylor: 41 blue chip players (2 Five-Stars)
-Utah: 37 blue chip players

How does Miami compare? 179 blue chip players (12 Five-Stars).

Conclusion on talent acquisition: While we have not hoarded the same amount of blue chip talent as three of the most dominant programs since 2007, it was interesting to see how we’ve been fairly on par w/ Clemson in regards to acquiring total blue chips during this time frame.

With that being said, let’s see what we’ve done with such acquisitions, comparably, with the draft (to gage why we may struggle to get high end blue chips to consistently consider us).

THE DRAFT (I’ll only focus on the top 3 teams compared to Miami in this exercise, since we love to blame bags for everything as an excuse)-

*The classes of 2007-2020 are the only ones that have been drafted or draft eligible since 2010-2023.*
-Bama had 259 blue chips (50 Five-Stars)
-UGA had 202 blue chips (40 Five-Stars)
-Clemson had 142 blue chips (22 Five-Stars)
-Miami had 132 blue chips (7 Five-Stars)

-Bama:
38% of Bama’s total blue chips were drafted (99)
68% of their 5* were drafted
72% of Bama’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

-UGA:
33.6% of UGA’s total blue chips were drafted (68)
67.5% of their 5* were drafted
48.5% of UGA’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

-Clemson:
31.6% of Clemson’s total blue chips were drafted (45)
77% of their 5* were drafted
60% of Clemson’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

Miami:
28% of Miami’s blue chips drafted (27)
86% of our 5* were drafted
32% of our drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

Conclusion on The NFL Drafts: This could explain why high end players are not beating down our doors with consistency; the blue chip players we’ve acquired, we’ve done far less in not only getting them drafted, but the draft position for our blue chips have well below sub-par.

RECORDS SINCE 2007 (Let’s deep dive in the notion of talent vs. coaching)-

-Bama: 194-27
-Clemson: 173-46
-UGA: 166-49
-TCU: 142-63
-Utah: 138-64
-Baylor: 114-88

Miami? 116-84

In this example, Miami has the 6th worst record out of two polar opposite ends of the spectrum. We can reason why Miami would have a worst record than Bama, UGA, & Clemson due to a talent discrepancy, but Utah, and TCU??
-We’ve acquired 300% more blue chips than TCU
-We’ve acquired almost 500% more blue chips than Utah
-We’ve acquired about 430% more blue chips than Baylor;

Yet, since 2007:
-TCU has won 10+ games 8x (including 4 Conference Titles, 9 bowl games {3 NY6 bowls}).
-Utah has won 10+ games 7x, (including 3 Conference Titles, 10 bowl games {1 NY6 bowl})
-Baylor has won 10+ games 5x (including 3 Conference Titles, 6 bowl games {1 NY6 bowl})

Miami? One 10 win season, and one bowl victory since 2007.

Utah, TCU, & Baylor are also doing this as under dogs, having far less than talent than the likes of USC, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma or equal talent as the likes of UCLA, Washington, Iowa St, & OK St. Which brings me to

THE ACC COASTAL AND HOW WE COMPARE-

Unlike TCU, Utah, & Baylor, we’ve out recruited every single team in our division since 2007.

Blue Chip Acquisition during that time:
-UNC: 107 (6 Five-Stars)
-VT: 69 (2 Five-Stars)
-UVA: 35 (2 Five-Stars)
-GT: 33
-Pitt: 25 (since joining the ACC in 2013)
-Duke: 11

Yet, here’s our record against said opponents:
UNC: 6-10
VT: 9-7
UVA: 9-7
GT: 10-5
Pitt: 7-3
Duke: 12-4

So is this a talent issue, or have something else been going on?

Final Conclusion: Yes, we have experienced a plethora of attrition; however, if u compare our attrition and stack the remaining roster talent/season to the majority of the teams we’ve faced annually, on paper, we’ve still had more than enough talent.

The NFL draft agrees with that assessment:
Since 2007-
-Miami: 57 Players Drafted (19 in first 3 rounds)
-UNC: 43 Players Drafted (20 in first 3 rounds)
-VT: 34 Players Drafted (11 in first 3 rounds)
-Pitt: 29 Players Drafted (7 in the first 3 rounds)
-GT: 19 Players Drafted (4 in the first 3 rounds)
-Duke: 9 Players Drafted (2 in the first 3 rounds)

Imo, the fate of Miami’s program is all cumulative. It’s not a coincidence that programs like Baylor, Utah, & TCU have thrived in a CFB world filled w/ handlers, w/ big fish choosing bigger programs; that’s coaching. Then again, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that programs like Bama, UGA, & Clemson are thriving w/ the shear amount of 5 stars & blue chips they’ve acquired; we can say that’s talent.

With Miami, we’re neither Bama-esque nor Utah-esque when it comes to talent or coaching. We should have enough talent to be a perennial 10 win team + winning the division (which is no longer an option), but the coaching has been putrid.

Every top program I’ve studied all have one thing in common: dedication and commitment from the top-down. With Miami, we’ve seen apathy from the admin, lazy hires filled with cronyism and nepotism, and a lack of semblance both at the AD and coaching levels. To constantly hide behind the theory of “Miami doesn’t have talent or enough talent” is foolish and disingenuous. Once upon a time, I believed that, but when I see other programs filled w/ non blue chip caliber rosters, taking down much tougher opponents, it puts things into perspective.

The hardest thing for anyone to do is face truth b/c it hurts. The NFL draft is a reminder that the program has some work to do, but with this renewed dedication, it shouldn’t take 5 yrs. There’s too many past and current examples showing that a turn around can be done in two yrs. Hopefully moving forwards, we’ll have a definitive answer vs. a theory of talent vs. coaching; I’m of the opinion we’ll have both, but this season will have give me an even more definitive answer one way or another.
Great post!
I’ve talked a lot about player accountability and the lack of dedication to work.
But if the entire department is lazy and apathetic then that permeates throughout the entire program.
maybe this explains the dudes deciding to not necessarily declare early to the draft but more to just get the Fck out of here.

As many former players have said before Mario and Rad got here:
“Until you clean out that entire building nothing will change”
 
Air Force Academy record in that same time frame. 0 Blue Chips 121-78.
Zero 5☆ I think 0 4☆ Very few 3☆
Tough class loads and military requirements. SAME HC
 
Just show me what our players do in the league and that's all I need to see. To tell you what type of talent we had just go look at the NFL during our dominant years and during our trash years. And I will show you HCs that can lose to any team with lesser talent with that type of talent. I hated our staphs not only because of losses but because they couldn't bring real top end talent by the bulk (pause)

Scheme and talent acquisition are tied together to a point. Look what’s going on with WR
 
@Rellyrell - great post!

We're basically the Texas & Texas A&M of Florida. Big names, great talent/recruiting base, blue-ship talent (on paper) - but always underachieve

2007 - 2023 Drafts (Last 17 Years) here's how many Day 1 & 2 picks we've had at these skill positions:

WR - 2 Phillip Dorsett, Leonard Hankerson
RB - 1 Duke Johnson
QB - 0

Just a confusing lack of playmakers. 3 QB/RB/WR's taken in the first 3 rounds over 17 years....that's a hard pill to swallow.
 
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@Rellyrell one aspect that factors in here that I don’t know how you’d even quantify is evaluations. While on paper we have had some success at the “blue clip” factor, it’s my belief (or perception) that by and large (due to coaching and draft records) we’ve been obtaining 4 star guys other program don’t covet as much. There are a few examples (Saban flying in for Gurvan etc) but not many dogfights. I’d argue all things considered the TCUs of the world are outperforming us because we’ve brought in poor blue chip evaluations star chasing vs truly identifying and projecting talent. From a fringe 4 star vs 3 star it comes down to player evaluation.
I honestly think that this is the post of the thread. We have “won” almost zero battles with the top tier programs for any of our blue chip guys. I think that points to missed evaluations more than anything. We get the 4stars who have character/talent defects, while TCU gets the 3star who is going to bust his *** to prove the world wrong. Huge difference
 
Agree with the entire post. Will add that evaluations (and signing the right ones) are more important than "development," which remains an amorphous concept.
 
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Scheme and talent acquisition are tied together to a point. Look what’s going on with WR
Our wr core has no elite first round type dude. That's cause they just can't convince a kid. Right now for db Deon would and already bodied MC. And for wr Hartline runs his sh. It ain't scheme cause Deon hasn't done sh it's his charisma and relationship building. Hartline is the same he just got a gift to be able to get a kid. Does he say scheme in his pitch? Yea he does. But he has to do more than that and he does it. He's gotta be charismatic asf to land all those kids. It's just the facts. We had no scheme that was secxy for OL and we landed the best OL class in America. So what was the pitch? I coached a kid at Oregon who was already elite coming in? What's the pitch for the OL? "We pushed people around last season and went 5-7 you should be a part of that Mr honcho"
 
This is really well done & interesting. First thought is not all Blue Chips & 5 stars are the same. We’ve not signed close to the level of elite talent as Bama, UGA & even Clemson - forget what the stars say.

Second, recruiting services & the star system aren’t the end all. Some elite players a blind man could identify. But a lot of this stuff is guess work & very in exact science. Could spend all day discussing player evaluation & projects.

Next is stability within the program. The elites - Bama, UGA & Clemson have long-term stability at the top. Assistant come & go, but the program is what it is & replacements adapt to the system.

Could go on & on, but last thing mentioned is QB play. You can have all the other pieces, but if QB also isn’t high level & at least a competent game manager it’s gonna be struggle. Can look back to Mario’s last QB at Oregon - transfer from BC - or Richt’s demise at UGA. Talented teams, but subpar QB play.

So, lot of factors go into long-term success.

We all know the recruiting services matrix is not some fool proof system, just like using analytics in sports; however, it’s the best guideline available in terms of rating talent w/o actually seeing hrs and hrs of film of each player.

U’ve hit the nail on the head regarding QB play. I mentioned this b4, but since 2003, we’ve only had two QBs drafted: Dorsey and Kaaya. However, one could argue coaching screwed up Brad. Kaaya had a favorable draft grade going into his Jr yr; statistically he had his best campaign under Richt, but that was due to Richt finally allowing Brad to rip the ball those last 5 games. Until then, it was a very conservative play calling, placing Kaaya under center many times, when his comfort level since HS was from the gun.
 
Our wr core has no elite first round type dude. That's cause they just can't convince a kid. Right now for db Deon would and already bodied MC. And for wr Hartline runs his sh. It ain't scheme cause Deon hasn't done sh it's his charisma and relationship building. Hartline is the same he just got a gift to be able to get a kid. Does he say scheme in his pitch? Yea he does. But he has to do more than that and he does it. He's gotta be charismatic asf to land all those kids. It's just the facts. We had no scheme that was secxy for OL and we landed the best OL class in America. So what was the pitch? I coached a kid at Oregon who was already elite coming in? What's the pitch for the OL? "We pushed people around last season and went 5-7 you should be a part of that Mr honcho"
Don’t need first round talent. Unc top 2 wrs went 3rd and 7th round
 
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analyze the last 5 years and you will see our talent has went to ****. we were still pulling in big classes with randy and golden.
Brother it doesn’t matter if I pull this last 5 yr cluster; the cluster b4 that, or the cluster prior to that.

On paper, we’ve had the best team each Saturday against the far, greater majority of the teams we’ve played. No, we should not be competing w/ a Bama, UGA, or Clemson on a yearly basis, but there’s a specific reason y I highlighted Utah, Baylor, & TCU in this examination. Where do u think we would be if we flipped rosters? Do u think our record would be better if we had a bunch of lower 3 stars?
 
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Some other variables that could be added (didnt see them mentioned in any posts so if I missed I apologize) that work against us.

Handlers, certain HS coaches, coaches who get here and get lazy, and honestly NFLU. We had kids coming here thinking they were going to the league just because of the U on the helmet. Everything that makes us unique and sitting in such a hot bed can also be a negative and Mario is trying to fix 27 leaks and 5 more pop up.

Mix this in with everything discussed and it makes a big rebuild even tougher. Its why the ancillary pieces we hear Mario trying to work on are so vital for a long term solution. Although we know in sports one year you can be in the NC and 20 years later you could still be fiending for that.
 
In my opinion… I think Lincoln Riley and Jim Harbaugh are two examples of that. Have they had teams who were talented enough to win titles? Yes. But they’ve been consistently out coached when it’s mattered most.
For Riley it’s the opposite. His Oklahoma teams, while talented were nowhere near the levels of Alabama or Ohio State. Harbaugh’s Michigan teams haven’t been extremely talented either but he also managed to lose to a lesser TCU team last year so I guess he falls into both categories.
 
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