Off-Topic Mass killings

“Whatever I wanna call it.” You mean the truth. Driving, smoking indoors, drinking at 18, Abortion, and 99% of other things are legal or used to be. You know what they have in common? They aren’t rights. If they were rights SCOTUS couldn’t take them away from you.
You are right. It is not a formally written right. However, for 50 years it was determined to be protected as part of the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment and its "Right to Privacy". So, yes it was determined to be a right by one SCOTUS and 50 years later that decision was reversed by another SCOTUS. The SCOTUS giveth and SCOTUS can taketh away.

So, whatever you want to call it, it pi$$ed off enough women to make the "red wave" a "red trickle".
 
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You are right. It is not a formally written right. However, for 50 years it was determined to be protected as part of the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment and its "Right to Privacy". So, yes it was determined to be a right by one SCOTUS and 50 years later that decision was reversed by another SCOTUS. The SCOTUS giveth and SCOTUS can taketh away.

So, whatever you want to call it, it pi$$ed off enough women to make the "red wave" a "red trickle".
“Determined to be a protected” is not a right.

Idk why this is so hard to understand. For all intents and purposes, it was an Executive Order. And just like EO’s, if they aren’t passed into law, they are thrown into the garbage by the next admin.
 
You are right. It is not a formally written right. However, for 50 years it was determined to be protected as part of the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment and its "Right to Privacy". So, yes it was determined to be a right by one SCOTUS and 50 years later that decision was reversed by another SCOTUS. The SCOTUS giveth and SCOTUS can taketh away.

So, whatever you want to call it, it pi$$ed off enough women to make the "red wave" a "red trickle".
Even RBG said it probably wasn’t constitutional.

Sure it moved the needle for some in midterms. I think most people who are pro life (which I am not) will take the trade off of winning the house, not winning the senate and the Dobbs decision. If u asked them before the decision, they probably would have taken that deal in a heartbeat

Abortion won’t be a big deal in 2024 elections
 
“Determined to be a protected” is not a right.

Idk why this is so hard to understand. For all intents and purposes, it was an Executive Order. And just like EO’s, if they aren’t passed into law, they are thrown into the garbage by the next admin.
SCOTUS decisions are not Executive Orders. Being that justices have lifelong terms, they are much more difficult to overturn than once every 4 years. And being that each justice has been asked if they will abide by legal precedent and basically lied in many people's eyes, SCOTUS is now viewed more unfavorably and as a much more partisan institution than they have in quite some time. They did exactly what libs had been warning about and there is more to come with upcoming decisions as well.

Hopefully it will lead to common sense laws, but I doubt it. Too many stubborn knuckleheads.
 
Even RBG said it probably wasn’t constitutional.

Sure it moved the needle for some in midterms. I think most people who are pro life (which I am not) will take the trade off of winning the house, not winning the senate and the Dobbs decision. If u asked them before the decision, they probably would have taken that deal in a heartbeat

Abortion won’t be a big deal in 2024 elections
I wouldn't bet on that. If enough women are forced to go across statelines or worry about facing jail time in coming back to their home state after the procedure, it will be an issue again.
 
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I wouldn't bet on that. If enough women are forced to go across statelines or worry about facing jail time in coming back to their home state after the procedure, it will be an issue again.
Is there a state that has it 100% illegal?

I won’t be betting on it, but I highly doubt it has as much impact as it did on 2022… and house republicans had -5 million more votes than house Dems.
 
Is there a state that has it 100% illegal?

I won’t be betting on it, but I highly doubt it has as much impact as it did on 2022… and house republicans had -5 million more votes than house Dems.
13 states have it as 100% illegal.

Georgia has it illegal after 6 weeks. A woman could think she was having a late period and miss that deadline.

10 other states have bans on hold with the courts.
 
SCOTUS decisions are not Executive Orders. Being that justices have lifelong terms, they are much more difficult to overturn than once every 4 years. And being that each justice has been asked if they will abide by legal precedent and basically lied in many people's eyes, SCOTUS is now viewed more unfavorably and as a much more partisan institution than they have in quite some time. They did exactly what libs had been warning about and there is more to come with upcoming decisions as well.

Hopefully it will lead to common sense laws, but I doubt it. Too many stubborn knuckleheads.
I said for all intents and purposes. If it can be challenged in court bc it isn’t written law or a right, it’s essentially an EO. I mean it’s not permanent.

SCOTUS is now viewed unfavorably bc it’s conservative. Has nothing to do with anything they did other than be nominated by Trump or Bush. The lefts hero RBG, even said RvW was bullsh*t from a legal standpoint.

Nobody has told the truth in their confirmation hearings since Bork.
 
13 states have it as 100% illegal.

Georgia has it illegal after 6 weeks. A woman could think she was having a late period and miss that deadline.

10 other states have bans on hold with the courts.
Wait what… did they change laws during the midterms? I coulda swore I posted a reply on here that only like 1 state had a near abortion ban. I’ll have to look that up when I get a chance again unless u are saying that 10-11 changed laws during midterm to make it 100% illegal with no exceptions
 
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13 states have it as 100% illegal.

Georgia has it illegal after 6 weeks. A woman could think she was having a late period and miss that deadline.

10 other states have bans on hold with the courts.
You'd think someone in Congress would try to propose a bill that would allow it up until at least 15 weeks like most of Europe.
 
Wait what… did they change laws during the midterms? I coulda swore I posted a reply on here that only like 1 state had a near abortion ban. I’ll have to look that up when I get a chance again unless u are saying that 10-11 changed laws during midterm to make it 100% illegal with no exceptions
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html

Alabama
Gov. Sen. House
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Arkansas
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Idaho
BannedNearly all abortions are banned, but a federal judge has blocked a piece of the law, ruling that doctors could not be punished for performing an abortion to protect a patient’s health. Abortion advocates and the Department of Justice have sued to challenge the bans.
Kentucky
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Louisiana
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Mississippi
BannedAbortion is banned with exceptions for rape, but not incest.
Missouri
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Oklahoma
BannedAbortion is banned at the point of fertilization.
South Dakota
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Tennessee
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
Texas
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
West Virginia
BannedNearly all abortions are banned as of Sept. 16.
Wisconsin
BannedThe state has a law from before Roe that bans abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest, and makes performing the procedure a felony. The Democratic governor and attorney general have filed a lawsuit in an attempt to block the ban.

My fave is Oklahoma - abortion is banned at the point of fertilization. You can have an abortion before fertilization? SMH
 
You'd think someone in Congress would try to propose a bill that would allow it up until at least 15 weeks like most of Europe.
You are so right. Then again, that would involve working together It's been 20 years since bipartisanship was in vogue and that was only due to 9/11.
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html

Alabama
Gov. Sen. House
BannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
ArkansasBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
IdahoBannedNearly all abortions are banned, but a federal judge has blocked a piece of the law, ruling that doctors could not be punished for performing an abortion to protect a patient’s health. Abortion advocates and the Department of Justice have sued to challenge the bans.
KentuckyBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
LouisianaBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
MississippiBannedAbortion is banned with exceptions for rape, but not incest.
MissouriBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
OklahomaBannedAbortion is banned at the point of fertilization.
South DakotaBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
TennesseeBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
TexasBannedAbortion is banned with no exceptions for rape or incest.
West VirginiaBannedNearly all abortions are banned as of Sept. 16.
WisconsinBannedThe state has a law from before Roe that bans abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest, and makes performing the procedure a felony. The Democratic governor and attorney general have filed a lawsuit in an attempt to block the ban.

My fave is Oklahoma - abortion is banned at the point of fertilization. You can have an abortion before fertilization? SMH
Out of those, here are ones that are not 100% abortion bans (have exceptions)...

Alabama​

Passed in 2019, Alabama's HB 314 bans almost all abortions, except in cases of life-threatening pregnancies. The law had been put on hold due to legal challenges but will likely go into effect with Roe v. Wade being overturned.​
Until the law's current injunction is overruled, abortions are prohibited after 22 weeks of gestation. The state also requires counseling, ultrasound, a 48-hour waiting period and parental consent for minors.​

Arkansas​

A 2019 law, HB 318, makes providing an abortion a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison or a fine of up to $100,000. There are exceptions in cases of life-threatening pregnancies.​

Idaho​

In March 2022, Idaho lawmakers passed Senate Bill 1309, modeled on a Texas law that allows potential relatives of an embryo or fetus to sue medical providers for abortions performed after six weeks. In April, the state Supreme Court temporarily blocked SB 1309, but a court overruled that injunction on Aug. 12, allowing the law to take effect immediately.​
A separate Idaho trigger law passed in 2020 banning all abortions was also blocked in April, but the court decision allowed the law to take effect Aug. 25.​
The US Department of Justice has sued Idaho, claiming that the lack of an exception for medical emergencies in the state's total abortion ban is unconstitutional. A federal judge has temporarily blocked part of the new law, saying the state can't ban abortion when it conflicts with federal law about emergency abortion care.​

Kentucky​

In 2019, Kentucky became one of the first states to pass an abortion trigger law, which went into effect after Roe v. Wade was struck down. The law states that providing surgical or medical abortion is a Class D felony, except if necessary to save the life of the patient or to prevent permanent impairment of a life-sustaining organ.

The new law was temporarily blocked by court rulings in June and July, but on Aug. 1, an appeals court reinstated the state's near-total ban, making all abortions in the state immediately illegal.​
Before Dobbs, Kentucky allowed abortions up to 22 weeks, requiring parental consent for minors, ultrasound, state-directed counseling and a 24-hour waiting period.​
On Election Day 2022, Kentucky voters rejected a referendum that would have altered the state constitution to say it did not include a right to abortion or government funding for abortion.

Abortion in Kentucky still remains illegal from the point of fertilization with only limited exceptions.​

Louisiana​

In 2006, Louisiana passed a trigger law that bans all abortions except to prevent "substantial risk of death or permanent impairment under certain circumstances."​
After Roe was struck down, the law was temporarily blocked pending a lawsuit by the Center for Reproductive Rights. On July 8, a Louisiana court lifted the stay on the near-total ban, but it was reinstated four days later with a hearing set for July 18.

Louisiana amended its state constitution in 2020 to remove any language that might imply the right to an abortion.​

Mississippi​

Mississippi's Gestational Age Act of 2018, which limited abortions to the first 15 weeks of pregnancy, was the subject of the Supreme Court case that led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

A Mississippi trigger law passed in 2007 outlaws all abortions except in cases of rape or to save the life of the patient. The law went into effect on July 7, 2022. On July 20, Jackson Women's Health Organization, the only abortion clinic in the state and the subject of the historic Supreme Court ruling, dropped its plans to challenge the state's abortion law.​

Missouri​

Following the Supreme Court ruling, Missouri invoked a trigger law banning all abortions in the state, with an exception if the life of the mother is at stake but not in cases of rape or incest.

The law makes inducing an abortion a class B felony, with a possible prison sentence of five to 15 years. Abortion providers can also have their medical licenses suspended or revoked.​
Previously, abortions were banned after 20 weeks' gestational age and required state-directed counseling, ultrasound and a 72-hour waiting period.​

Oklahoma​

Post-Roe, anyone who performs an abortion at any point after fertilization could be subject to up to two to five years in prison unless the life of the mother is at risk. (A trigger law went into effect on Aug. 26 that increases the penalties to 10 years in prison and/or a fine of $100,000.)

The statute makes exceptions for miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies, to save the life of the patient and if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest that has been reported to law enforcement. It is also aimed at medical professionals -- a woman having an abortion would not be charged.​
Like the Texas ban, Oklahoma's law allows private citizens to sue anyone who helps a woman obtain an abortion for at least $10,000 in damages.​

South Dakota​

Under Roe, South Dakota banned abortions after 22 weeks and required counseling and a 72-hour waiting period. But a 2005 trigger law now in effect bans abortions except in the case of life-threatening pregnancies.​
A separate law passed in March 2022 further restricted access to abortion medications.​

Tennessee​

A 2019 trigger law effectively bans abortion unless it can be proven in court that the mother's life is at stake went into effect on Aug. 25.​
Voters amended the Tennessee state constitution in 2014 to remove abortion protections granted by a state Supreme Court ruling in 2000.​

Texas​

A 2021 trigger law that is now in effect criminalizes abortion from the moment of fertilization unless there is a life-threatening medical emergency or a risk of "substantial impairment of major bodily function."

The law, which has no provisions for rape or incest, makes providing an abortion punishable by up to life in prison and fines of up to $100,000, according to The Texas Tribune.

On July 1, the state Supreme Court ruled Texas could also enforce a 1925 abortion ban that allows for civil charges to be filed against someone assisting in the termination of a pregnancy.​

West Virginia​

On Sept. 16, Republican West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice signed a near-total abortion ban passed by the Legislature earlier in the month. It prohibits the termination of a pregnancy except in the case of a medical emergency. Survivors of rape or incest have to report the assault within 48 hours and present a copy of a police report or notarized letter to a physician before an abortion could be performed.​
Prior to Roe v. Wade being overturned, West Virginia banned abortions after 22 weeks, except in cases where the life of the mother was endangered. In 2018, voters agreed to amend the state constitution to specifically declare that it doesn't include any right to abortion.​
A law from 1849 technically makes performing an abortion a felony punishable by three to 10 years in prison. On July 18, Kanawha Circuit Judge Tera Salango stayed the enforcement of that statute because it predates West Virginia statehood and hasn't been enforced in a half-century. West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey is appealing Salango's ruling.​

Wisconsin​

A law dating to 1849 makes abortion a felony, but it's not clear if the 173-year-old ban will now go into effect as State Attorney General Josh Kaul has said he wouldn't enforce the "draconian" law.

Democratic Gov. Tony Evers has called on the Republican-led legislature to repeal that law, but it isn't expected to do so.

Until now, abortion in Wisconsin has been legal up to the 22nd week, though state regulations require counseling, parental consent for minors, a 24-hour waiting period and mandatory ultrasound. They also prohibit telemedicine for abortion medication.​
All of the 13 states you listed have some sort of exception that allows an abortion to occur in the state. Yes these are the 13 most restrictive states, I give you that, but there is not a 100% abortion ban in any of those states. Although, Wisconsin's 1849 law sounds like maybe it's 100% no exceptions... but that they aren't going to enforce it??? I don't get that, but maybe there has been an update.

I got all of these updates from CNET which was updated on 11/14/22...

 
Out of those, here are ones that are not 100% abortion bans (have exceptions)...

Alabama​

Passed in 2019, Alabama's HB 314 bans almost all abortions, except in cases of life-threatening pregnancies. The law had been put on hold due to legal challenges but will likely go into effect with Roe v. Wade being overturned.​
Until the law's current injunction is overruled, abortions are prohibited after 22 weeks of gestation. The state also requires counseling, ultrasound, a 48-hour waiting period and parental consent for minors.​

Arkansas​

A 2019 law, HB 318, makes providing an abortion a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison or a fine of up to $100,000. There are exceptions in cases of life-threatening pregnancies.​

Idaho​

In March 2022, Idaho lawmakers passed Senate Bill 1309, modeled on a Texas law that allows potential relatives of an embryo or fetus to sue medical providers for abortions performed after six weeks. In April, the state Supreme Court temporarily blocked SB 1309, but a court overruled that injunction on Aug. 12, allowing the law to take effect immediately.​
A separate Idaho trigger law passed in 2020 banning all abortions was also blocked in April, but the court decision allowed the law to take effect Aug. 25.​
The US Department of Justice has sued Idaho, claiming that the lack of an exception for medical emergencies in the state's total abortion ban is unconstitutional. A federal judge has temporarily blocked part of the new law, saying the state can't ban abortion when it conflicts with federal law about emergency abortion care.​

Kentucky​

In 2019, Kentucky became one of the first states to pass an abortion trigger law, which went into effect after Roe v. Wade was struck down. The law states that providing surgical or medical abortion is a Class D felony, except if necessary to save the life of the patient or to prevent permanent impairment of a life-sustaining organ.​
The new law was temporarily blocked by court rulings in June and July, but on Aug. 1, an appeals court reinstated the state's near-total ban, making all abortions in the state immediately illegal.​
Before Dobbs, Kentucky allowed abortions up to 22 weeks, requiring parental consent for minors, ultrasound, state-directed counseling and a 24-hour waiting period.​
On Election Day 2022, Kentucky voters rejected a referendum that would have altered the state constitution to say it did not include a right to abortion or government funding for abortion.​
Abortion in Kentucky still remains illegal from the point of fertilization with only limited exceptions.​

Louisiana​

In 2006, Louisiana passed a trigger law that bans all abortions except to prevent "substantial risk of death or permanent impairment under certain circumstances."​
After Roe was struck down, the law was temporarily blocked pending a lawsuit by the Center for Reproductive Rights. On July 8, a Louisiana court lifted the stay on the near-total ban, but it was reinstated four days later with a hearing set for July 18.​
Louisiana amended its state constitution in 2020 to remove any language that might imply the right to an abortion.​

Mississippi​

Mississippi's Gestational Age Act of 2018, which limited abortions to the first 15 weeks of pregnancy, was the subject of the Supreme Court case that led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade.​
A Mississippi trigger law passed in 2007 outlaws all abortions except in cases of rape or to save the life of the patient. The law went into effect on July 7, 2022. On July 20, Jackson Women's Health Organization, the only abortion clinic in the state and the subject of the historic Supreme Court ruling, dropped its plans to challenge the state's abortion law.​

Missouri​

Following the Supreme Court ruling, Missouri invoked a trigger law banning all abortions in the state, with an exception if the life of the mother is at stake but not in cases of rape or incest.​
The law makes inducing an abortion a class B felony, with a possible prison sentence of five to 15 years. Abortion providers can also have their medical licenses suspended or revoked.​
Previously, abortions were banned after 20 weeks' gestational age and required state-directed counseling, ultrasound and a 72-hour waiting period.​

Oklahoma​

Post-Roe, anyone who performs an abortion at any point after fertilization could be subject to up to two to five years in prison unless the life of the mother is at risk. (A trigger law went into effect on Aug. 26 that increases the penalties to 10 years in prison and/or a fine of $100,000.)​
The statute makes exceptions for miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies, to save the life of the patient and if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest that has been reported to law enforcement. It is also aimed at medical professionals -- a woman having an abortion would not be charged.​
Like the Texas ban, Oklahoma's law allows private citizens to sue anyone who helps a woman obtain an abortion for at least $10,000 in damages.​

South Dakota​

Under Roe, South Dakota banned abortions after 22 weeks and required counseling and a 72-hour waiting period. But a 2005 trigger law now in effect bans abortions except in the case of life-threatening pregnancies.​
A separate law passed in March 2022 further restricted access to abortion medications.​

Tennessee​

A 2019 trigger law effectively bans abortion unless it can be proven in court that the mother's life is at stake went into effect on Aug. 25.​
Voters amended the Tennessee state constitution in 2014 to remove abortion protections granted by a state Supreme Court ruling in 2000.​

Texas​

A 2021 trigger law that is now in effect criminalizes abortion from the moment of fertilization unless there is a life-threatening medical emergency or a risk of "substantial impairment of major bodily function."​
The law, which has no provisions for rape or incest, makes providing an abortion punishable by up to life in prison and fines of up to $100,000, according to The Texas Tribune.​
On July 1, the state Supreme Court ruled Texas could also enforce a 1925 abortion ban that allows for civil charges to be filed against someone assisting in the termination of a pregnancy.​

West Virginia​

On Sept. 16, Republican West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice signed a near-total abortion ban passed by the Legislature earlier in the month. It prohibits the termination of a pregnancy except in the case of a medical emergency. Survivors of rape or incest have to report the assault within 48 hours and present a copy of a police report or notarized letter to a physician before an abortion could be performed.​
Prior to Roe v. Wade being overturned, West Virginia banned abortions after 22 weeks, except in cases where the life of the mother was endangered. In 2018, voters agreed to amend the state constitution to specifically declare that it doesn't include any right to abortion.​
A law from 1849 technically makes performing an abortion a felony punishable by three to 10 years in prison. On July 18, Kanawha Circuit Judge Tera Salango stayed the enforcement of that statute because it predates West Virginia statehood and hasn't been enforced in a half-century. West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey is appealing Salango's ruling.​

Wisconsin​

A law dating to 1849 makes abortion a felony, but it's not clear if the 173-year-old ban will now go into effect as State Attorney General Josh Kaul has said he wouldn't enforce the "draconian" law.​
Democratic Gov. Tony Evers has called on the Republican-led legislature to repeal that law, but it isn't expected to do so.​
Until now, abortion in Wisconsin has been legal up to the 22nd week, though state regulations require counseling, parental consent for minors, a 24-hour waiting period and mandatory ultrasound. They also prohibit telemedicine for abortion medication.​
All of the 13 states you listed have some sort of exception that allows an abortion to occur in the state. Yes these are the 13 most restrictive states, I give you that, but there is not a 100% abortion ban in any of those states. Although, Wisconsin's 1849 law sounds like maybe it's 100% no exceptions... but that they aren't going to enforce it??? I don't get that, but maybe there has been an update.

I got all of these updates from CNET which was updated on 11/14/22...

With the exceptions basically only being when the life of the mother is in danger, that is in essentially a ban on abortion. We'll see how this pans out over the next year or so when there are more real-life examples of arrests, having to go out of state, etc.
 
With the exceptions basically only being when the life of the mother is in danger, that is in essentially a ban on abortion. We'll see how this pans out over the next year or so when there are more real-life examples of arrests, having to go out of state, etc.
Yeah but the life of the mother was constantly brought up during the campaign by the Dems

Come to find out… that is basically an exception everywhere. This is why I keep saying the Rs messaging around the Dobbs decision was terrible. States like where I live not only allow infanticide… but allow non physicians to do it

I haven’t looked but I wonder how many states allow infanticide. I’ll take a look at some point. That is immoral and a travesty to be allowed in the US.
 
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Yeah but the life of the mother was constantly brought up during the campaign by the Dems

Come to find out… that is basically an exception everywhere. This is why I keep saying the Rs messaging around the Dobbs decision was terrible. States like where I live not only allow infanticide… but allow non physicians to do it

I haven’t looked but I wonder how many states allow infanticide. I’ll take a look at some point. That is immoral and a travesty to be allowed in the US.
Health care practictioners who are adequately trained and licensed in it. Actually in reading New York's state law, I actually like it. 24 weeks without restriction and from then on if the mother's life is in danger or the baby won't reach viability.

Again, doctors won't perform abortions if the baby is viable, but I agree go ahead and make it a formal law to allay any fears that doctors would purposely kill babies that are viable.
 
Health care practictioners who are adequately trained and licensed in it. Actually in reading New York's state law, I actually like it. 24 weeks without restriction and from then on if the mother's life is in danger or the baby won't reach viability.

Again, doctors won't perform abortions if the baby is viable, but I agree go ahead and make it a formal law to allay any fears that doctors would purposely kill babies that are viable.
Appreciate u looking that up cause when the article didn’t mention viable (like it does for other states) I assumed it wasn’t restrictive. Weird they didn’t put it. They also didn’t mention NJ, Minnesota and I think 2 or 3 other states. But maybe they are similar viable conditions

Personally I think we should adopt something similar to Europe… ~15 weeks with exceptions for life of mother and rape, incest of course.
 
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There has been a lot of infringement for something that shall not be infringed.
 
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