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Making the pieces fit on DL

AUcane said:
I think we should be honest with ourselves. Mesidor and Agude are going to the league with one good year at Miami. Moultrie is in his 5th year so I'll be surprised if he stays beyond this year. I expect all of them to be gone next year which means we'll need another crop of 3-4 DL transfers.
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I get what you're saying. But I believe it will all depend on whether staying increases their chances of making more money in the NFL. I could see both Agude and Mesidor sticking a second year under the right conditions.
 
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grover said:
I get what you're saying. But I believe it will all depend on whether staying increases their chances of making more money in the NFL. I could see both Agude and Mesidor sticking a second year under the right conditions.
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Agreed--especially when you consider Mesidor not being a prototype EDGE or DT. His NFL prospects will take a little more scheme projection.
 
AUcane said:
I think we should be honest with ourselves. Mesidor and Agude are going to the league with one good year at Miami. Moultrie is in his 5th year so I'll be surprised if he stays beyond this year. I expect all of them to be gone next year which means we'll need another crop of 3-4 DL transfers.
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Considering next year we’ll be able to rely more on guys like Nijalik Kelly, Cyrus Moss and Ahmad Moten, we won’t be as desperate to fill spots with portal guys. The reason we’re taking so many guys now is because we don’t have any good upperclassmen and throwing a bunch of first and second year players out on defensive line is a recipe for disaster.

Another thing to consider is that the portal is part of college football now and we’ll always be adding pieces from it. We’ll likely be losing guys too, especially if the talent bar gets set higher here. I doubt we’ll need to add four or five guys from one position group in the future but its likely we’ll be pulling a few guys every year.
 
gcane44 said:
Agreed--especially when you consider Mesidor not being a prototype EDGE or DT. His NFL prospects will take a little more scheme projection.
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This. Mesidor would have to have a really incredible year to get on the NFL radar to be an early pick. Tweener players don’t usually get drafted early even if they’re really productive in college.
 
canesbaby said:
I don't disagree with any of this but do you think hall of fame 350 lb guys are just waiting around to be recruited?
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Just a thought of what’s out there and that’s the type of beef we need.

He doesn’t have to tackle at all just clog and occupy a couple lanes.

They are out there someone is getting them why not us ?

Wilfork was an example only 330 plus 6’ even 5’11 as long as he can clog physically

GOCANES
 
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Need NT's desperately to make this defense perform at optimum level.

I would rather run more of an Aranda 2 gap system and stand up more guys at the LOS than run more of a Steele, Saban or Smart 2 gap system.
 
Good 300 + pounds DT are rare and schools are going to hold on to them. Unless we tamper and offer a NIL bag I don’t see one entering the portal.
 
5NC4 said:
Need NT's desperately to make this defense perform at optimum level.

I would rather run more of an Aranda 2 gap system and stand up more guys at the LOS than run more of a Steele, Saban or Smart 2 gap system.
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What are the differences?
 
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TallyCane said:
Good 300 + pounds DT are rare and schools are going to hold on to them. Unless we tamper and offer a NIL bag I don’t see one entering the portal.
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Those guys are unicorns. It's not as easy as just plugging some fat *** in at nose tackle and letting him just take up space. Any center can put a fat guy on his butt if he's not explosive out of his stance and plays with poor leverage.

People here thinking Vince Wilforks just grow on trees.
 
I think the post that mentioned the Seahawks legion of boom under Quinn that won a SB is a good one since this roster doesn't have the traditional dominant front 7 most great defenses are built on. Dan Quinn was 1 year removed from being Muschamp's DC at UF when he coached that unit, so there are some loose SEC bloodlines Steele is likely familiar with. And if there's any hope for impact players on the D James/Avantae being Chancellor/Thomas is probably the best bet they've got right now.

Their starting 4 down DL had a total of 8 sacks combined. Red Bryant (6'7 325) played the elephant DE spot, Mebane (6'1 311) and McDaniel (6'7 305) were effective pluggers, and Chris Clemons was a productive but undersized rusher (6'3 255). And they had Avril, Bennett, and Irvin who could pin their ears back in pass rush situations. So to the point about making the pieces fit on the DL, it's a pretty good example where they had some non-traditionally sized players playing in a more specialized rotation.

That defense was #1 in points against and it was all about being rangey in the back end to make big plays while being fast/physical everywhere. Stout at the LOS but not dominant (#1 D against the pass, 7th best D against the rush in both yards and y/r).

There's no sherman (or wagner) on this roster but they do have some bigger corners who can get physical so it's not a bad model if they can hold up in coverage. A poor mans legion of boom with a deep DL rotation that can hold up at the LOS, corners who can get physical and press, funneling as much as possible to talented safeties making the plays in the middle of the field and coming up to the LOS. Need to add some rangey LBs in the portal but seems like they are on their way with that. Agude and Messidor seem like they can be pin the ears back roles with Taylor disrupting from the interior, while Moultrie, Lichtenstein, JHH, Miller can hopefully be that physical group that holds up on early downs and keeps the back 7 clean/in good situations. They need another big NT and a few more designated pass rushers with juice wouldn't hurt but it's possible those guys might be incoming with the freshman class.

Nobody is going to confuse it with UGA but it seems like it could be good enough for the ACC.
 
AUcane said:
Agude and Mesidore are in their 3rd year of CFB.

Moultrie and Lich are in there 5th.
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There's tons of conflicting info out there but it appears Agude attended a JUCO in CA prior to UCLA.

UCLA
Enrolled at UCLA in January 2020 and took part in spring practice ... earned a spot on the Athletic Director's Honor Roll for Spring 2020, Winter 2021 and Spring 2021 ... African American Studies major.

2021
Saw action in all 12 games ... starter in 10 ... had career-best 10 tackles in win at USC ... credited with 5 or more tackles in the first three games and in the last four games of the season ... ranks 12th in the nation in forced fumbles (0.33/g) ... forced four fumbles on the year ... named Pac-12 Defensive Lineman of the Week after his performance in the season-ending Cal win (5 tackles, 1 sack) ... second-team All-Pac-12 selection by the league coaches ... third-team All-Pac-12 selection by Phil Steele.

2020
Saw action in all 7 games ... starter in 5 games - Colorado, Cal, Oregon, USC and Stanford ... led the team with 9.0 tackles for loss ... rated fourth in the Pac-12 in tackles for loss per game at 1.29 ... forced 2 fumbles in the win against Arizona ... had a season-best 3.5 tackles for loss at Oregon and forced a fumble ... posted a season-best 6 tackles versus Stanford ... had 4 stops in game against Colorado, Oregon and Arizona ... ranked 10th in the nation in forced fumbles per game average (0.43) ... earned a spot on the Athletic Director's Honor for Winter 2021.

PRIOR TO UCLA
Three-star recruit according to 247Sports, ESPN and Rivals … No. 10 junior-college prospect by Rivals … No. 2 JC weakside defensive end by 247Sports … No. 8 JC outside linebacker by ESPN … posted 43 tackles, 3.5 sacks and two forced fumbles for Tigers 2018 … put up 10 tackles, 3.0 tackles for loss and one sack in 2018 SoCal championship game vs. Ventura College … attended Santiago HS in Corona, Calif. where he registered 27 tackles and one interception in 2016 … also competed in jumping events for Santiago's track and field team.
 
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Canezum5 said:
We're going to run it Just like Pete Carrols 4-3 under... which, from my recollection, had been been stout WITHOUT that super heavyweight nose guard type.

Each man responsible for a gap. 1,3, and 5 techniques. No 2 gapping. We don't have the hosses.

All we need is somebody who can hold the point of attack on a double team in that 1 tech and we can be serviceable with this unit.

That's going to be the goal for fall camp.
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Those USC teams had pretty good linebackers, like almost the whole room was future pros. Keith Rivers, Lofa Tatupa, Cushing, clay Matthews, rey maualuga

Even guys like Thomas Williams, kaluka maiava, Dallas sartz, Oscar lua were late round picks.
 
You have to get creative with the fronts you run and HOW YOU PERSONNEL said fronts.

Personally I would utilize the Tite front on running downs with Miller at the 0-tech, Taylor and JHH at the 4i's and one of our lighter DE's at the "Jack" OLB spot. (I already know Steele runs the Tite front and we saw some of it during the spring)

Then you can move to the 4-front (even front) stuff during other downs, sub certain guys in and out depending on run/pass situations, etc etc etc.


The front-7 talent that Manny left us with is flat-out pathetic. To think about some of the kids/recruits he passed on (or lost) during those years make it even more frustrating.
 
Lance Roffers said:
I’d like to see us stack our LB’s a bit more and play with double 3T at times. Obviously the scheme of opponent would matter because you can get gashed in the A gap if you don’t fill behind it, but if you have personnel who excel at 3T, but not so much at 1T, I might just lean into it instead of making my defense worse just to keep roles static.

Jordan Miller isn’t one of our six best DT’s really, so unless the defense just can’t function without a 1T, why play him?

If you listen to Flagg speak and some other things said, the LB’s are 2-gapping more, which is what you’d need to do if your DL isn’t and you don’t have a 1T clogging it up inside.

The DL can still penetrate and cause havoc, while your LB’s read and react more, while filling a bit less.

It’s an unusual roster composition. In college, you would normally have a 1/0 or even 2i at least 50 plays a game, so not playing it much at all would be a learning curve.

Lichtenstein and Moultrie and Mesidor all can play a 2i pretty easily though. Thinking through it, that would be a way of pinching things, while still utilizing strengths of your personnel.

Just please don’t line up Mesidor as a 0 all game like WVU did.
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Allow the Center to free release?
And make the LB's responsible for both A-gaps?

That also takes our LB's completely out of the pass defense in some of our coverages.

You can't apex a slot WR's route, or carry a WR up the seam if you're primary gap is the A.
 
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Coach Macho said:
Allow the Center to free release?
And make the LB's responsible for both A-gaps?

That also takes our LB's completely out of the pass defense in some of our coverages.

You can't apex a slot WR's route, or carry a WR up the seam if you're primary gap is the A.
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Was waiting for someone to point this out lol.
 
DMoney said:
An influx of transfers has remade our defensive front. Now, we have an abundance of guys with similar body types- long, lean for a DT, built more like a 3-4 DE. They average out to 6'4, 272 and all fit into that general profile:

Jared Harrison-Hunte- 6'4, 285
Jake Lichtenstein- 6'5, 270
Antonio Moultrie- 6'4, 260
Akheem Mesidor- 6'2, 272
Elijah Roberts- 6'4, 275

Leonard Taylor is a little stouter (6'3, 305) but still far from a nose tackle. So how do we make all of these pieces fit in a four-man front? On one hand, length and athleticism is always good and Steele did wonders with a similar body type in Marlon Davidson. But it is still a unique situation when you are lacking a true nose and are thin at EDGE.

Curious to hear any thoughts from others on how we should deploy this group.

@Coach Macho @WestEndzone @San Amaro Dr @Liberty City El @gogeta4 @LuCane @gcane44 @Lance Roffers
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Not that it matter but JHH mentioned he was up to 297.
 
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