Luther Robinson and Chase Ford...

[am1640]

I edited my post before you responded. For whatever reason, I remembered it as a 3rd and 5. I went back and checked. Either way, he wasn't in grab and contain, as you noted. He recognized PA and went upfield after he shed his G. That is the best part of his skill set. Would you disagree?

It doesn't really matter in this instance what Robinson's best skill set is, I'm just talking about the position he was playing last night in Capers hybrid 3-4/4-3 under defense they are running this year in GB. I won't pretend that I was exclusively tuned into the game last night so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing him in on known passing downs when GB played their nickel fronts until the end of the game when they were clearing the bench. He primarily played on 1st/2nd down and he played the spot that Jones normally plays (it's the reason he was signed since Jones' backup Josh Boyd got hurt last week) which is Capers 2 gap player. Thats why I mentioned what Raji said not to compare their skill set but to illustrate what Capers wants out of the players playing that position. There is a reason Capers and Lebeau have been quoted as hating using young players because they demand a lot from their DL and it's not an advantageous defense for young players (sound familiar). Obviously Robinson's somewhat knowledge of playing in a 2 gap system has helped him prepare for his role "right now" in GB's schemes. Now in the future when his "skillset" is being utilized we can point to his misuse at Miami, but he's playing the role of their 2 gap player (regardless of how well he does it that's the position he's playing).


edit: and looking at Goldenshowers post is exactly why I quoted what Raji said about how Capers wanted his players to play because I knew someone would say that Capers plays more of a 1 gap get up the field defense, which isn't true (although he is trying to incorporate more 1 gap this year with the hybrid 4-3 under they are running that uses 1 and 2 gapping at the same time).

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

Luther Robinson makes one play and now he is a star in the eyes of some. LMAO.

Most people are noting he's getting PT in the NFL. Getting any PT and hanging around the NFL isn't an easy task. Certainly, as an underperformer and backup throughout all of college, you'd think he wouldn't even get a look. Make your own inferences from that, I guess.

With Robinson and the packers I think high smith. Could golden technique be a plus when getting to nfl?

Then he should be coaching in the NFL. But he isn't. Which should tell you something.

 

[butchs'revenge]

its odd how many miami players just get better and how many bama plaeyrs get worse

Not odd if you really think about it. At Bama those kids are basically put into pro S and C and nutrition (and likely "supplementation") programs from the jump. They are then coached up by the best in the business. Lot of those kids come out of that program at their ceiling. Also, on defense, Saban teaches to his system, and kids only know how to operate in that system. Once they get into another scheme, they are clueless. Dee Milliner as a prime example.

At Miami it's the exact opposite. Bunch of really talented kids who are being coached up by a total clown in S and C, with no nutrition program, no training table, small support staff, and coached up by a bunch of ra-ra recruiters or out of touch old dudes. Our player development since Butch left and the troll took over has become a total joke. So much talent wasted.

still bama gets many of the best talent in the country, and his 3/4 is popular in the league, even at their ceilings they should be at or above our nfl talent level, we gotta be doing something right down here

 

[We'retheBoss]

Chase Ford dropped approximately 100% of the passes thrown his way at Miami. I'm happy for him to be in the NFL, but his success in the league is not an indictment of the coaching staff here.

 

[D_G87]

The reason so many Miami players are better in the NFL is because in college coaches want you to play a certain way. Chase Ford and Sandland weren't any good here because coaches tried to make them into all around TE's (blocking and receiving) when they were both Receiving Tight Ends. I understand developing players and working on things they need to improve but on gameday let them do what they are good at. Sandland should have been in the slot matched up with LB and Safeties making catches instead of inline blocking against a DE and LB. I just don't get why they recruit some kids if they aren't going to let them use their talents. Just wait until Tyriq McCord gets to the NFL. He won't be a DE trying to hold the point of attack. He will be an OLB/hybrid DE that's rushing the passer and will be taught better techniques on how to rush the passer. . So many players look Robotic on defense especially. When we have someone blitzing they run right into the RB who is pass blocking instead of trying to get around him or they don't even look at the QB or try to get a tip on the ball or anything. The Duke game was better than I have seen in a while, but the programs Football Intelligence from Coaches to players seems to be lacking to me. Sorry to get off subject.

 

[FullyERicht]

Am1640.......

I'm not really an expert on Capers, but given he is a Lebeau disciple, and given I've seen videos of Marvin Lewis who coached under him as well, their form of two gap is NOT the stack and shed of the Parcells 3-4. It's blow up your man and get your hips in the hole. Rex Ryan who worked under Lewis also teaches his two gap this way. Much simpler to execute.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Off the street and into the action.

And Ponder really ****ing sucks. How that dude and Manuel were first round picks is just baffling.

But..but...but Jimbo is a Quarterback whisperer...

Actually says a lot about Jimbo. He takes bad qbs and makes them productive. Look at Jamrcus Russel, Manuel and Ponder. All productive qbs but they all had major flaws. Russel was lazy, Ponder couldnt throw beyond 8 yards and Manuel was scary. Winston is the best qb Jimbo ever coached. I think everyone with a brain knew that Ponder and Manuel werent 1st rd talents.

 

[bbcane]

I edited my post before you responded. For whatever reason, I remembered it as a 3rd and 5. I went back and checked. Either way, he wasn't in grab and contain, as you noted. He recognized PA and went upfield after he shed his G. That is the best part of his skill set. Would you disagree?

It doesn't really matter in this instance what Robinson's best skill set is, I'm just talking about the position he was playing last night in Capers hybrid 3-4/4-3 under defense they are running this year in GB. I won't pretend that I was exclusively tuned into the game last night so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing him in on known passing downs when GB played their nickel fronts until the end of the game when they were clearing the bench. He primarily played on 1st/2nd down and he played the spot that Jones normally plays (it's the reason he was signed since Jones' backup Josh Boyd got hurt last week) which is Capers 2 gap player. Thats why I mentioned what Raji said not to compare their skill set but to illustrate what Capers wants out of the players playing that position. There is a reason Capers and Lebeau have been quoted as hating using young players because they demand a lot from their DL and it's not an advantageous defense for young players (sound familiar). Obviously Robinson's somewhat knowledge of playing in a 2 gap system has helped him prepare for his role "right now" in GB's schemes. Now in the future when his "skillset" is being utilized we can point to his misuse at Miami, but he's playing the role of their 2 gap player (regardless of how well he does it that's the position he's playing).


edit: and looking at Goldenshowers post is exactly why I quoted what Raji said about how Capers wanted his players to play because I knew someone would say that Capers plays more of a 1 gap get up the field defense, which isn't true (although he is trying to incorporate more 1 gap this year with the hybrid 4-3 under they are running that uses 1 and 2 gapping at the same time).

So golden helped Robinson earn a job in the nfl. highsmith knows the systems of both, I am sure that's how Robinson arrived there

 

[Cane Dynasty]

The reason so many Miami players are better in the NFL is because in college coaches want you to play a certain way. Chase Ford and Sandland weren't any good here because coaches tried to make them into all around TE's (blocking and receiving) when they were both Receiving Tight Ends. I understand developing players and working on things they need to improve but on gameday let them do what they are good at. Sandland should have been in the slot matched up with LB and Safeties making catches instead of inline blocking against a DE and LB. I just don't get why they recruit some kids if they aren't going to let them use their talents. Just wait until Tyriq McCord gets to the NFL. He won't be a DE trying to hold the point of attack. He will be an OLB/hybrid DE that's rushing the passer and will be taught better techniques on how to rush the passer. . So many players look Robotic on defense especially. When we have someone blitzing they run right into the RB who is pass blocking instead of trying to get around him or they don't even look at the QB or try to get a tip on the ball or anything. The Duke game was better than I have seen in a while, but the programs Football Intelligence from Coaches to players seems to be lacking to me. Sorry to get off subject.

VERY FVCKIN COGNIZANT!

repped

 

[CaneAlmighty]

This thread didn't turn out like mope a dopes thought it would. Good job am1640. Repped

 

[LuCane]

I edited my post before you responded. For whatever reason, I remembered it as a 3rd and 5. I went back and checked. Either way, he wasn't in grab and contain, as you noted. He recognized PA and went upfield after he shed his G. That is the best part of his skill set. Would you disagree?

It doesn't really matter in this instance what Robinson's best skill set is, I'm just talking about the position he was playing last night in Capers hybrid 3-4/4-3 under defense they are running this year in GB. I won't pretend that I was exclusively tuned into the game last night so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing him in on known passing downs when GB played their nickel fronts until the end of the game when they were clearing the bench. He primarily played on 1st/2nd down and he played the spot that Jones normally plays (it's the reason he was signed since Jones' backup Josh Boyd got hurt last week) which is Capers 2 gap player. Thats why I mentioned what Raji said not to compare their skill set but to illustrate what Capers wants out of the players playing that position. There is a reason Capers and Lebeau have been quoted as hating using young players because they demand a lot from their DL and it's not an advantageous defense for young players (sound familiar). Obviously Robinson's somewhat knowledge of playing in a 2 gap system has helped him prepare for his role "right now" in GB's schemes. Now in the future when his "skillset" is being utilized we can point to his misuse at Miami, but he's playing the role of their 2 gap player (regardless of how well he does it that's the position he's playing).


edit: and looking at Goldenshowers post is exactly why I quoted what Raji said about how Capers wanted his players to play because I knew someone would say that Capers plays more of a 1 gap get up the field defense, which isn't true (although he is trying to incorporate more 1 gap this year with the hybrid 4-3 under they are running that uses 1 and 2 gapping at the same time).

You lost me at "it doesn't matter what Luther Robinson's skill set is." This thread was brought up because of a play he made getting to the QB. Yes, he read first and then went upfield. Many of us discussed how his skill set is (at least when he was here and currently) going upfield (which is different from Raji's). I didn't imply that you had said they have the same skill sets. You noted Raji talking about what he does as a 3-Tech against the run and I've noted what Luther Robinson did reading play action and doing a good job with his PT getting to the QB on that play. Is Luther Robinson helped by having played in a 2-Gap system in college? Yeah, of course. But, it's still not his best skill set and not the source of the play people mentioned. If he's going to be asked to play 3T and do well in the run game in Capers' system, I think he'll do less than his best. Certainly, if he's asked to do what Raji does.

Additionally, I think you've also misconstrued what GoldenShowers said. You said Showers stated Capers "plays more of 1 gap." Showers mentioned Capers' 2-gap is different than the one Luther was asked to play here.

 

[bbcane]

I edited my post before you responded. For whatever reason, I remembered it as a 3rd and 5. I went back and checked. Either way, he wasn't in grab and contain, as you noted. He recognized PA and went upfield after he shed his G. That is the best part of his skill set. Would you disagree?

It doesn't really matter in this instance what Robinson's best skill set is, I'm just talking about the position he was playing last night in Capers hybrid 3-4/4-3 under defense they are running this year in GB. I won't pretend that I was exclusively tuned into the game last night so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing him in on known passing downs when GB played their nickel fronts until the end of the game when they were clearing the bench. He primarily played on 1st/2nd down and he played the spot that Jones normally plays (it's the reason he was signed since Jones' backup Josh Boyd got hurt last week) which is Capers 2 gap player. Thats why I mentioned what Raji said not to compare their skill set but to illustrate what Capers wants out of the players playing that position. There is a reason Capers and Lebeau have been quoted as hating using young players because they demand a lot from their DL and it's not an advantageous defense for young players (sound familiar). Obviously Robinson's somewhat knowledge of playing in a 2 gap system has helped him prepare for his role "right now" in GB's schemes. Now in the future when his "skillset" is being utilized we can point to his misuse at Miami, but he's playing the role of their 2 gap player (regardless of how well he does it that's the position he's playing).


edit: and looking at Goldenshowers post is exactly why I quoted what Raji said about how Capers wanted his players to play because I knew someone would say that Capers plays more of a 1 gap get up the field defense, which isn't true (although he is trying to incorporate more 1 gap this year with the hybrid 4-3 under they are running that uses 1 and 2 gapping at the same time).

You lost me at "it doesn't matter what Luther Robinson's skill set is." This thread was brought up because of a play he made getting to the QB. Yes, he read first and then went upfield. Many of us discussed how his skill set is (at least when he was here and currently) going upfield (which is different from Raji's). I didn't imply that you had said they have the same skill sets. You noted Raji talking about what he does as a 3-Tech against the run and I've noted what Luther Robinson did reading play action and doing a good job with his PT getting to the QB on that play. Is Luther Robinson helped by having played in a 2-Gap system in college? Yeah, of course. But, it's still not his best skill set and not the source of the play people mentioned. If he's going to be asked to play 3T and do well in the run game in Capers' system, I think he'll do less than his best. Certainly, if he's asked to do what Raji does.

Additionally, I think you've also misconstrued what GoldenShowers said. You said Showers stated Capers "plays more of 1 gap." Showers mentioned Capers' 2-gap is different than the one Luther was asked to play here.

So if Robinson does not play a 2 gap style defense in college, is he on the packers roster right now?
I think no.

 

[bbcane]

The 2 gap style of d in college probably helps more than it hurts, when it comes to getting an nfl job. Most if not all teams ask d lineman to do this at on time or another.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

If only Luther and pops weren't so stubborn in adopting the 2 gap concept his college career and future NFL prospectus may have turned out differently.

 

[Da_U_85]

i was told Luther and chase were talentless.

I guess I was lied too.

 

[Canesontherise]

Al's fault?

 

[GhostofVenice01]

The 2 gap style of d in college probably helps more than it hurts, when it comes to getting an nfl job. Most if not all teams ask d lineman to do this at on time or another.

Nevermind that its extremely hard to run at ths level and is one of the main reasons we cant stop anyone, but YEA GUYSM IT HELPS THEM AT THE NEXT LEVEL THOUGH

 

[LuCane]

I edited my post before you responded. For whatever reason, I remembered it as a 3rd and 5. I went back and checked. Either way, he wasn't in grab and contain, as you noted. He recognized PA and went upfield after he shed his G. That is the best part of his skill set. Would you disagree?

It doesn't really matter in this instance what Robinson's best skill set is, I'm just talking about the position he was playing last night in Capers hybrid 3-4/4-3 under defense they are running this year in GB. I won't pretend that I was exclusively tuned into the game last night so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing him in on known passing downs when GB played their nickel fronts until the end of the game when they were clearing the bench. He primarily played on 1st/2nd down and he played the spot that Jones normally plays (it's the reason he was signed since Jones' backup Josh Boyd got hurt last week) which is Capers 2 gap player. Thats why I mentioned what Raji said not to compare their skill set but to illustrate what Capers wants out of the players playing that position. There is a reason Capers and Lebeau have been quoted as hating using young players because they demand a lot from their DL and it's not an advantageous defense for young players (sound familiar). Obviously Robinson's somewhat knowledge of playing in a 2 gap system has helped him prepare for his role "right now" in GB's schemes. Now in the future when his "skillset" is being utilized we can point to his misuse at Miami, but he's playing the role of their 2 gap player (regardless of how well he does it that's the position he's playing).


edit: and looking at Goldenshowers post is exactly why I quoted what Raji said about how Capers wanted his players to play because I knew someone would say that Capers plays more of a 1 gap get up the field defense, which isn't true (although he is trying to incorporate more 1 gap this year with the hybrid 4-3 under they are running that uses 1 and 2 gapping at the same time).

You lost me at "it doesn't matter what Luther Robinson's skill set is." This thread was brought up because of a play he made getting to the QB. Yes, he read first and then went upfield. Many of us discussed how his skill set is (at least when he was here and currently) going upfield (which is different from Raji's). I didn't imply that you had said they have the same skill sets. You noted Raji talking about what he does as a 3-Tech against the run and I've noted what Luther Robinson did reading play action and doing a good job with his PT getting to the QB on that play. Is Luther Robinson helped by having played in a 2-Gap system in college? Yeah, of course. But, it's still not his best skill set and not the source of the play people mentioned. If he's going to be asked to play 3T and do well in the run game in Capers' system, I think he'll do less than his best. Certainly, if he's asked to do what Raji does.

Additionally, I think you've also misconstrued what GoldenShowers said. You said Showers stated Capers "plays more of 1 gap." Showers mentioned Capers' 2-gap is different than the one Luther was asked to play here.

So if Robinson does not play a 2 gap style defense in college, is he on the packers roster right now?
I think no.

That's actually a really good question and adds to the discussion in a legitimate way other than worthless remarks in other posts.

I don't know. Perhaps it helped. But, isn't it odd that he'd be asked to do things that aren't perfectly suited for his skill set? Isn't it also possible the guy is just a very good athlete, has some potential, and they figured they might be able to do something with it? Those are the considerations.

 

[gogeta4]

Not surprised by Luther Robinson. He was a misfit in what he was asked to do here. Complete upfield guy.

There is a lot to nit pick this staff about, but the fact that Robinson is playing for the Packers is a bad example imo? Was he not playing in Josh Boyd position for the Packers tonight as the backup 3 tech behind Jones? Guess what Dom has his 3 tech's do in his defense. Actually just look at what BJ Raji said about Dom Capers 3 tech position, since that's what he played the last three seasons before moving back to nose this season.

At the 3-technique position, where he has played since Pickett moved to nose in 2011, Raji's primary responsibility has been to "grab guards," as he told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel this season, because Dom Capers "likes his linebackers clean."

"I look at those numbers," said Raji, perusing a sheet with his year-by-year statistics. "It's not a coincidence that my best statistical year was when I was a nose. Right now, on first and second down, we're asked to grab guards. Dom (Capers) likes his linebackers clean. That's my job right now."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...packers-can-build-a-top-3-run-defense-in-2014

Luther Robinson being in the league, playing for a defense that asks him to do the things we hate about this defense isn't an example of a player being misused in this system imo.

He was in on a passing down in the example at hand and I imagine he'll be used to his strengths. I don't know if you saw the play, but he wasn't just standing there grabbing in contain. Raji's a completely different player, FWIW. I could see his strengths being used differently, which would make sense.

It was 1st and 5 that's not a passing down and he was playing a 3 tech as the LDE next to Matthews. The line slide left on the PA and he initially slide with it holding up the guard, recognized pass, and did a rip and was able to get in Ponder's face as he released the ball.

I edited my post before you responded. For whatever reason, I remembered it as a 3rd and 5. I went back and checked. Either way, he wasn't in grab and contain, as you noted. He recognized PA and went upfield after he shed his G. That is the best part of his skill set. Would you disagree?

Luther Robinson got his div 1 offer just off that skill set alone. He made the camp tour and just tour up all the big camps one on one drills...shooting up the field...and ripping through guards.. His highlight film was blafh..and actually better at oline when watching. He was a classic 3 tech with a nice skill set...that our staff (golden) really miss used. And early on when he got plt when they first came..they punished him for getting upfield...and basically saying the **** with what your asking me to do.

* What i hate bout our coaching staff.......

Even if u run a scheme with two gapping etc...when you put a guy in....How about play that player to his strengths?.....They absolutely have no clue....Their bubble screening Stacy Coley to death....Putting Gus Edwards in the one back and sending him east to west...Asked Shayon Green to be Champ Bailey....countless other sh*t..where im looking at it like...........why?

 

[DMoney]

Luther played some DE during his senior year. Weird fit.