Let's Define Pro Style Offense And Richt's Version

[LuCane]

@LuCane sort of it explained it already. It'd be nice to use our TE's as more than decoys and with a complete route tree In formations that take advantage of mismatches.

Those formations, imo, are the traditional 12 personnel sets that would target the LB's and safeties in coverage against our Two beasts rather than flex them out wide and have them work outside the hashes against guys with a clear speed advantage.

It's clearly something Richt has implemented. We saw it in the App game and it's been confirmed we've seen it in practice.

This is but one way to mix and modify a pro style system to achieve success; there are a near endless variety of alternatives. That is why I thought that it was important for someone to explain what a pro style offense is so that people will understand what it can do. Based on the early reactions by the fan base most people saw little difference in production and therefore related what Richt was trying to do to what they have seen from OC's such as Coley. And that is way off base.

Good deal by LuCane that is what I was hoping to get out of this thread.

Yes, Lu made good points and I agree with him. I just don't agree with the people who think the game has passed Mark Richt.

We DO NOT beat App State if that was the case.

But, as it has been stated, we will see this Saturday

I didn't make any of those conclusions about whether or not the game has passed Richt by. I go by what I see and try to stay on topic.

My posts since the game are rooted in what we saw on Saturday, what I know they've done in practice and what I wished we had seen. Richt has his reasons, I'm sure, for his playcalls. He said himself he was "rusty" and probably went to the RPO too much. Personally, I just wanted to see stuff inside the hashes more and I know it's available in his 12 personnel.

Since then, I made a proposal for what I hope to see going forward. It's found here: https://www.canesinsight.com/thread/proposal-offense/103316

Gladly take any critique or suggestions there. After all, not like it'll make any real difference in what we do!

May I ask what kind of stuff you saw from our offense in practice? Just curious.

For one, Njoku was used out of the slot more effectively on in-turning routes and vertical. I outright expected that after I saw UNC's Trubisky rip throws down FSU's seams even against 2-deep Safeties. We also used Njoku out of the slot in more than just trips formations. Presented nice matchups. I haven't reviewed every play, so I'm not sure we've come out with it yet. I won't be too detailed beyond that.

 

[LuCane]

Not going to accept that as a whole. There are serious truths in there. Sure, execution matters a ton. Sure, blocking matters a ton. No one is disputing that.

But...

5 days later and no one has answered why we didn't counter FSU's adjustments to more aggression.
5 days later and no one has answered how a WORSE OL last year was able to hold up against a better FSU defense on the road and able to produce enough time for Kaaya to do his thing.
5 days later and no one has answered why we didn't use the middle of the field or try to get vertical with our TEs.

To simplify to "could our offense could have been called better, perhaps" is too much.

I would be f'in shocked if Richt himself didn't feel he could have called a better game. And, yes, we could have still overcome that if certain plays happened our way. That's because, in reality, we should have won the game by 10+ points. What's done is done. Let's see what adjustments happen in the next two.

At some point you have to accept the fact that it all comes down to execution.

--> why we didn't counter FSU's adjustments to more aggression.

Richt and Dugans did. Look at how clean Coley's route was when Kayaa made the TD for the tie. It's the same route they were trying to hit most of the game.

Berrious trusted his blocking on the punt return.

4th and 21 at FSU 16
(3:19 - 4TH) LOGAN TYLER PUNT FOR 43 YDS , BRAXTON BERRIOS RETURNS FOR 43 YDS TO THE FLAST 16

TOUCHDOWN
4 PLAYS, 16 YARDS, 1:41
FSU
20
MIAMI
19

1st and 10 at FSU 16
(3:02 - 4TH) MARK WALTON RUN FOR 4 YDS TO THE FLAST 12
2nd and 6 at FSU 12
(2:23 - 4TH) MARK WALTON RUN FOR 3 YDS TO THE FLAST 9
3rd and 3 at FSU 9
(2:06 - 4TH) MARK WALTON RUN FOR A LOSS OF 2 YARDS TO THE FLAST 11
4th and 5 at FSU 11
(1:38 - 4TH) STACY COLEY 11 YD PASS FROM BRAD KAAYA (MICHAEL BADGLEY PAT BLOCKED)

-->5 days later and no one has answered how a WORSE OL last year was able to hold up against a better FSU defense on the road and able to produce enough time for Kaaya to do his thing.
Kayaa was 29-49 for 405 yrds. The OL did a decent job pass blocking to allow Kayaa just enough time to throw for those yards. The WR threat was better and Kayaa made great throws.

Last year FSU took away the run completely, we were 1.1 per carry the run blocking was atrocious. This year the spacing on the OL and passing concepts was much better for the WR's and TE's for the most part. Kayaa didn't make the throw, the WR's dropped a lot of balls. And the OL and RB's missed key blocking assignments.

-->5 days later and no one has answered why we didn't use the middle of the field or try to get vertical with our TEs.
This year FSU played the middle of the field better. They forced everything outside by leaving the CB's one on one with the WR's outside. As an OC you have to take that. Kayaa and WR's for most of the game didn't make them pay. The WR's and TE's were open. They finally executed when it counted 1:41 4th Qtr.

-->To simplify to "could our offense could have been called better, perhaps" is too much.
In hindsight what more could one say?

1. I'm not sure that Coley route was previously attempted. It actually looked like an option route. It was a fantastic throw and catch, no doubt. Even if your point is that they had been trying to get Coley to the corner out of the slot, sure, that's partly my point: we did too much of that in light of other opportunities within the hashes.

2. I don't understand the point on the OL. The unit was worse last year. Mcerdmott was out at the edge whiffing on D. Walker. I think your stats support my point: despite a worse OL, Kaaya had sufficient time in a more vertical attack. The WR options were really not all that better. What we got out of Scott and Waters could have been replaced with combination routes to Herndon and Njoku against a weak middle of the field defense - especially after Matthew Thomas went out.

Further, I am in somewhat shock Walton (especially) and Yearby weren't used in the flats more. If you're going to use two potential NFL TEs as decoys and your WRs are being man'd up outside against a lot of 2-Safety looks on pass plays, you know very well what's open: the flats. Kaaya also throws great passes in the flats. It's one of his best throws. We should have seen more of that and could have at least matched a lot of the passing game from last year. It also protects your OL.

3. FSU did not play the middle of the field better through scheme. I believe that's you playing the result. FSU played 2-deep and sometimes dropped a Safety down late. We just decided to use the middle of the field as a decoy area to open up mostly slant routes behind it. The handful of times we actually went vertical down the seams, guys were running free. One of those ended up as a pass to Berrios who inexplicably (to me) is playing the outside WR role too much.

4. I think you can just say things didn't come together for us, and bluntly Coach Richt has about as much accountability for his choice in attack as his players for missed execution. I suppose I just don't see it as a "perhaps." I see it as a "YES, players ****ed up (they always do; football is hard) AND "Yes, Coach Richt ****ed up (i hold him to a higher standard because of experience and salary).

It ain't the end of the world, as I said. Coach Richt is our OC for the foreseeable future. We're not going to have to wait long to see if he adjusts.

 

[Moro]

Good points Lu. You were right Coley did line up in the slot on the score for the tie.

Good segue. Today's New England offense is not THE New England offense. The New England Offense that Drew Bledsoe ran, and that Tom Brady inherited, is not today's New England offense because Charlie Weis' NE offense was modified by Josh McDaniel. Guess where McDaniel got those changes? The 2005 Florida Gators, under Urban Meyer. Yes, the Patriots use elements of the run-oriented Meyer Offense. Don't believe me? Watch Aaron Hernandez take an inside pitch not from Tebow, but Brady. Watch Hernandez line up first as receiver then as running back a la Percy Harvin. Is it a run and shoot? It depends. You can call it the spread-option with all the running plays replaced with run and shoot concepts.

The point is that Bill Belichik molded an offense around his personnel. He was not getting production out of his running backs under the Weis NE Offense, so he added Urban Meyer's run oriented offense to his existing run oriented offense and removed the running backs.

Belichik and Co. have Brady relying on the TEs (including Gronk, not coincidentally) in the way most other teams' passing game relies on the WRs: both downfield, AND holding up and/or coming around into the flats, on outs and delayed screens--at times almost like runners themselves. Talk about adapting to and making the most of what you have: call it a "modified spread-option attack run off a pro-style set", or whatever, but at a certain point, the switch-offs, trade-outs, and adaptations make the labels and descriptions moot, at best just a convenient starting point for discussion after-the-fact.

This is but one way to mix and modify a system to achieve success; there are a near endless variety of alternatives.

Richt don't necessarily need Belichik or Meyer in order to design an effective hybrid offense around his personnel; he only has to possess a vision of such an offense, the imagination to recognize daring details that lend themselves to such an approach, and the will to implement and further modify the overall work-in-progress as it finds its rhythm, growing confidence and success.

I think as teams force Richt's hand we will begin to see more of the New England offense which uses the TE in the attacking manner that you are proposing. I agree we have the hybrid TE personnel to do it and we seem to attract this type of talent at that position consistently. However, I actually think Richt game planned enough to beat FSU using only what he has shown thus far.

We will see on Saturday and each week thereafter just what Richt has in his bag. I believe Richt is up for the creative challenges.

Curious do you think Richt has what it takes to be an architect, implementer, both or neither?

 

[Moro]

OP, good work. What's your conclusion?

I think we have a lot to look forward to and be excited about. LuCane referenced practice, the use of Njoku being used out of the slot more effectively on in-turning routes and vertical. That's a good sign that Richt is being creative with his design of the pro style offense. What Lu is describing in terms of use of the TE is exactly what's used in the New England extension of the pro style set. So based on what was described these strategies are in the playbook.

It's like a kid waiting for Christmas the night before, time just doesn't seem to move fast enough especially when you've sneaked a peak at the gift. On the flip side of that, when things don't turn out your way, I would imagine it to be like death row an hour before execution and you have been notified that you weren't granted a stay, time seems to move way too fast, there's a clearer understanding that you may not be ready and need more time.

Along the way we all will need to be patient and allow Richt to use the game plan accordingly. But don't get me wrong I'm all for the criticism of everyone involved just so long as we can point to specifics and provide something of substance to backup that argument. So I applaud everyone that is posting in that manner whether I agree with their assessments in whole, in part or not at all.

 

[Canezum5]

[MENTION=14310]Moro[/MENTION] One of the better threads yet. Underrated

 

[Moro]

Thanks Zum!

Here is an example of Belichik's use of the TE set in his New England extension of the pro set offense. It's unreal!

[video=youtube;yCT3FVbdBBQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCT3FVbdBBQ[/video]

 

[LuCane]

Curious do you think Richt has what it takes to be an architect, implementer, both or neither?

No clue. We'll see what he does and judge accordingly. He knows offense, so it's a matter of willingness to adjust and attack. The "conservative nature" label scares me a little, but I'll go based off the evidence. It's too soon to say either way. Even after these next 3 games, it will be too soon to say. Of course, there will be much more data to judge.

 

[Moro]

Curious do you think Richt has what it takes to be an architect, implementer, both or neither?

No clue. We'll see what he does and judge accordingly. He knows offense, so it's a matter of willingness to adjust and attack. The "conservative nature" label scares me a little, but I'll go based off the evidence. It's too soon to say either way. Even after these next 3 games, it will be too soon to say. Of course, there will be much more data to judge.

Lu I agree. If you have any pull whatsoever be sure to make Richt aware of this TE set if it's not already in the playbook. I agree with you when it comes to the talent at the TE position, we should use it while we have it.