Kalen Deboer

[Handsome Squidbum]

Hmmm; so the problem w me as a fan of the program & now a super CFB fan is that it has created quite the dichotomy.

I’m wondering what has changed for us to think any differently than from past regimes:
-Was it b/c we limped into 10 wins for the 1st time in 7 seasons & the 2nd time since joining the ACC?
-Is it b/c we’ve landed three 5* players in recruiting since he’s been here?
-Is it because we seemingly have more booster support than b4?

I’m looking for the empirical evidence proving we’re better today or is this more fandom & hope vs. reality?

Let’s examine the facts after 3 yrs, & u tell me if I’m tripping:

Coker (2001-2003):
35-3 (avg. recruiting class rank: 5th)

Shannon (2007-2009):
21-17 (avg. recruiting class rank: 10th)

Golden (2011-2013):
22-15 (avg. recruiting class rank: 19th)

Richt (2016-2018):
26-13 (avg. recruiting class rank: 14th)

Diaz (2019-2021):
21-15 (avg. recruiting class rank: 13th)

Cristobal (2022-2024):
22-16 (avg. recruiting class rank: 9th)

Shannon, Golden, Diaz, & Cristobal r all in the same boat after 3 yrs. In fact, our recruiting classes of 2022-23 were unmitigated disasters, so that avg. of 9th is moot, just like the previous regimes of highly touted classes.

Parallels: In 2018 we squandered arguably the best defense we had in 2 decades w a porous offense, by contrast In 2024, we squandered arguably the best offense we’ve had our in our history w a porous defense. The difference was one was a roller coaster ride while the other was as exciting as watching paint dry.

The only way I can firmly say we’ve been stabilized is if we turn out another 10+ win season this yr, something we haven’t done since 2002-2003. Other than that, it’s conjecture & hope to say Cristobal has stabilized us; &, b4 we say “look at the trajectory”, again…

Shannon:
Yr 1: 5-7
Yr 2: 7-6
Yr 3: 9-4
Trajectory

Golden:
Yr 1: 6-6
Yr 2: 7-5
Yr 3: 9-4
Trajectory

Richt:
Yr 1: 9-4
Yr 2: 10-3
Yr 3: 7-5
Declination

Diaz:
Yr 1: 6-7
Yr 2: 8-3
Yr 3: 7-5
Declination

Cristobal:
Yr 1: 5-7
Yr 2: 7-6
Yr 3: 10-3
Trajectory

The only way Mario can show he’s different than his predecessor is by having back to back 10+ win seasons. Other than that, it’s fandom rhetoric.

Lastly, this is to address the Richt/Dabo claims:

Richt didn’t have the benefit of the CFP in his early tenure. In Richt’s first 3 seasons (w/ 0 HC experience), UGA went 32-8. In 2 of those seasons, UGA would’ve made the CFP.

While it’s true that it took Dabo 3 full seasons to reach 10+ wins at Clemson, it’s also true that after that pivotal season, Dabo then went 11 straight seasons of winning 10+ games. So if Mario is on Dabo’s trajectory, that will manifest itself this season. If not, if we win less than 10 games again, then what’s the difference between he & his predecessors?

To be clear, this is not ****ting on Mario vs. highlighting the premature nature of saying “things r different.” We won’t know things r different until this season’s results, which for all of our sake, we need it to be.

Not to belabor the point but also should be noted that Diaz’s 2nd season was the shortened Covid season, original schedule had no Clemson and two more cupcakes. No doubt in my mind that Diaz gets a 10 win season in year 2 if it had been a normal season. And in year 3, King wasn’t healthy to start the opener against Bama and then he got knocked out for the season a couple games later. If Ward had gone down in week 4 and then Miami ended up going 7-6, there would be no shortage of apologists. I am not saying we would be better off with Diaz today, only that Cristobal has infinitely more resources and I don’t think he’s met expectations yet.

 

[SinisterCane]

I just want a head coach who has absolutely has no connections to Columbus high school and is not a former hurricane with the ability to develop more than one position group

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I just want a head coach who has absolutely has no connections to Columbus high school and is not a former hurricane with the ability to develop more than one position group

 

[Jonnyblaze]

Hmmm; so the problem w me as a fan of the program & now a super CFB fan is that it has created quite the dichotomy.

I’m wondering what has changed for us to think any differently than from past regimes:
-Was it b/c we limped into 10 wins for the 1st time in 7 seasons & the 2nd time since joining the ACC?
-Is it b/c we’ve landed three 5* players in recruiting since he’s been here?
-Is it because we seemingly have more booster support than b4?

I’m looking for the empirical evidence proving we’re better today or is this more fandom & hope vs. reality?

Let’s examine the facts after 3 yrs, & u tell me if I’m tripping:

Coker (2001-2003):
35-3 (avg. recruiting class rank: 5th)

Shannon (2007-2009):
21-17 (avg. recruiting class rank: 10th)

Golden (2011-2013):
22-15 (avg. recruiting class rank: 19th)

Richt (2016-2018):
26-13 (avg. recruiting class rank: 14th)

Diaz (2019-2021):
21-15 (avg. recruiting class rank: 13th)

Cristobal (2022-2024):
22-16 (avg. recruiting class rank: 9th)

Shannon, Golden, Diaz, & Cristobal r all in the same boat after 3 yrs. In fact, our recruiting classes of 2022-23 were unmitigated disasters, so that avg. of 9th is moot, just like the previous regimes of highly touted classes.

Parallels: In 2018 we squandered arguably the best defense we had in 2 decades w a porous offense, by contrast In 2024, we squandered arguably the best offense we’ve had our in our history w a porous defense. The difference was one was a roller coaster ride while the other was as exciting as watching paint dry.

The only way I can firmly say we’ve been stabilized is if we turn out another 10+ win season this yr, something we haven’t done since 2002-2003. Other than that, it’s conjecture & hope to say Cristobal has stabilized us; &, b4 we say “look at the trajectory”, again…

Shannon:
Yr 1: 5-7
Yr 2: 7-6
Yr 3: 9-4
Trajectory

Golden:
Yr 1: 6-6
Yr 2: 7-5
Yr 3: 9-4
Trajectory

Richt:
Yr 1: 9-4
Yr 2: 10-3
Yr 3: 7-5
Declination

Diaz:
Yr 1: 6-7
Yr 2: 8-3
Yr 3: 7-5
Declination

Cristobal:
Yr 1: 5-7
Yr 2: 7-6
Yr 3: 10-3
Trajectory

The only way Mario can show he’s different than his predecessor is by having back to back 10+ win seasons. Other than that, it’s fandom rhetoric.

Lastly, this is to address the Richt/Dabo claims:

Richt didn’t have the benefit of the CFP in his early tenure. In Richt’s first 3 seasons (w/ 0 HC experience), UGA went 32-8. In 2 of those seasons, UGA would’ve made the CFP.

While it’s true that it took Dabo 3 full seasons to reach 10+ wins at Clemson, it’s also true that after that pivotal season, Dabo then went 11 straight seasons of winning 10+ games. So if Mario is on Dabo’s trajectory, that will manifest itself this season. If not, if we win less than 10 games again, then what’s the difference between he & his predecessors?

To be clear, this is not ****ting on Mario vs. highlighting the premature nature of saying “things r different.” We won’t know things r different until this season’s results, which for all of our sake, we need it to be.

Solid points. I think most can agree that Mario’s tenure so far has been a “success”, but year 4 is critical. The jury is still out on whether or not Mario can make us elite, but he certainly pulled us out of the doldrums.

 

[TrumpyCane]

Not to belabor the point but also should be noted that Diaz’s 2nd season was the shortened Covid season, original schedule had no Clemson and two more cupcakes. No doubt in my mind that Diaz gets a 10 win season in year 2 if it had been a normal season. And in year 3, King wasn’t healthy to start the opener against Bama and then he got knocked out for the season a couple games later. If Ward had gone down in week 4 and then Miami ended up going 7-6, there would be no shortage of apologists. I am not saying we would be better off with Diaz today, only that Cristobal has infinitely more resources and I don’t think he’s met expectations yet.

And TrumpyCane thinks the argument to your King point was TVD had 25 TDs and only 6 INTS, the offense wasn’t the issue, the issue was Manny’s side of the ball, the defense, was absolutely atrocious giving up 106 points in 3 losses, they scored 98 points in those 3 losses

Famously giving up that 4th and 14 against FSU and playing to kick a FG against UVA when they had plenty of time to at least attempt a TD

 

[Arehel]

Mario was not brought here and/or sold as a Top 15 class, stability hire... ACC Championship, Top 5 classes, Playoffs

I'd agree with that.

I'm not defending him I think I'm just pointing things out.
Honestly this is the year we gotta hit some of those.
I'm just a big fan, no money involved.

Last year was super painful to watch because that defense was coordinated so poorly, the alignments, the leverages we're all way off and as an OL guy with Jason Taylor, there is no way he didn't see this eventually happening .He can't be that oblivious to poor alignment issues, that was probably the most frustrating part

 

[RVACane]

Mario was not brought here and/or sold as a Top 15 class, stability hire... ACC Championship, Top 5 classes, Playoffs

I agree 100%. He’s not achieving those loftier things though that was the expectation as I saw it with the money paid to him at the time of signing and the NIL commitment. I’m just glad it’s at least a stabilized situation and that’s what I think he’ll leave… a stable, competitive program that i hope hires a really good coach when they have the next chance.

 

[JamesQuall]

Solid points. I think most can agree that Mario’s tenure so far has been a “success”, but year 4 is critical. The jury is still out on whether or not Mario can make us elite, but he certainly pulled us out of the doldrums.

You read his entire post and posted this? Especially the bolded?

By that logic, every single one of the coaches he posted was a success at some point in time.

 

[RVACane]

Hmmm; so the problem w me as a fan of the program & now a super CFB fan is that it has created quite the dichotomy.

I’m wondering what has changed for us to think any differently than from past regimes:
-Was it b/c we limped into 10 wins for the 1st time in 7 seasons & the 2nd time since joining the ACC?
-Is it b/c we’ve landed three 5* players in recruiting since he’s been here?
-Is it because we seemingly have more booster support than b4?

I’m looking for the empirical evidence proving we’re better today or is this more fandom & hope vs. reality?

Let’s examine the facts after 3 yrs, & u tell me if I’m tripping:

Coker (2001-2003):
35-3 (avg. recruiting class rank: 5th)

Shannon (2007-2009):
21-17 (avg. recruiting class rank: 10th)

Golden (2011-2013):
22-15 (avg. recruiting class rank: 19th)

Richt (2016-2018):
26-13 (avg. recruiting class rank: 14th)

Diaz (2019-2021):
21-15 (avg. recruiting class rank: 13th)

Cristobal (2022-2024):
22-16 (avg. recruiting class rank: 9th)

Shannon, Golden, Diaz, & Cristobal r all in the same boat after 3 yrs. In fact, our recruiting classes of 2022-23 were unmitigated disasters, so that avg. of 9th is moot, just like the previous regimes of highly touted classes.

Parallels: In 2018 we squandered arguably the best defense we had in 2 decades w a porous offense, by contrast In 2024, we squandered arguably the best offense we’ve had our in our history w a porous defense. The difference was one was a roller coaster ride while the other was as exciting as watching paint dry.

The only way I can firmly say we’ve been stabilized is if we turn out another 10+ win season this yr, something we haven’t done since 2002-2003. Other than that, it’s conjecture & hope to say Cristobal has stabilized us; &, b4 we say “look at the trajectory”, again…

Shannon:
Yr 1: 5-7
Yr 2: 7-6
Yr 3: 9-4
Trajectory

Golden:
Yr 1: 6-6
Yr 2: 7-5
Yr 3: 9-4
Trajectory

Richt:
Yr 1: 9-4
Yr 2: 10-3
Yr 3: 7-5
Declination

Diaz:
Yr 1: 6-7
Yr 2: 8-3
Yr 3: 7-5
Declination

Cristobal:
Yr 1: 5-7
Yr 2: 7-6
Yr 3: 10-3
Trajectory

The only way Mario can show he’s different than his predecessor is by having back to back 10+ win seasons. Other than that, it’s fandom rhetoric.

Lastly, this is to address the Richt/Dabo claims:

Richt didn’t have the benefit of the CFP in his early tenure. In Richt’s first 3 seasons (w/ 0 HC experience), UGA went 32-8. In 2 of those seasons, UGA would’ve made the CFP.

While it’s true that it took Dabo 3 full seasons to reach 10+ wins at Clemson, it’s also true that after that pivotal season, Dabo then went 11 straight seasons of winning 10+ games. So if Mario is on Dabo’s trajectory, that will manifest itself this season. If not, if we win less than 10 games again, then what’s the difference between he & his predecessors?

To be clear, this is not ****ting on Mario vs. highlighting the premature nature of saying “things r different.” We won’t know things r different until this season’s results, which for all of our sake, we need it to be.

I think anything less than 8 wins undercuts us being stable. 9 or more and I feel better. I have us at 7-8 wins. I think Mario is a 7-9 win coach who can some better years but I’m not optimistic on his ceiling. Last year was the year and we didn’t even get to the ACCCG.

 

[Jonnyblaze]

You read his entire post and posted this? Especially the bolded?

By that logic, every single one of the coaches he posted was a success at some point in time.

Did you read my post? I was talking strictly about Mario and clearly said year four is critical and the jury is still out on him. If you can’t even concede that Mario has been successful so far, I don’t know what to tell you. Especially considering the dumpster fire he inherited.

 

[RVACane]

You read his entire post and posted this? Especially the bolded?

By that logic, every single one of the coaches he posted was a success at some point in time.

Yeah, I wouldn’t call him a success by traditional unbiased standards. I think he stabilizes the program. That’s like average to me not above average. Success would be another 10 win season and the ACCCG. That would be something to build on. I think we’re around the upper middle tier now.

 

[JamesQuall]

Did you read my post? I was talking strictly about Mario and clearly said year four is critical and the jury is still out on him. If you can’t even concede that Mario has been successful so far, I don’t know what to tell you. Especially considering the dumpster fire he inherited.

You can't be successful while the jury is still out

You can't be unsuccessful while the jury is still out.

"They jury is still out" literally means a consensus has not yet been made. I agree with you that the jury is still out and this year is critical.

However, spare me with the "hE iNhErItEd A dUmPsTeR fIrE" it's nothing but a lame excuse that many other coaches and teams have been able to overcome in less than 3 years.

 

[TemplarCane]

Is there an old Tom Herman thread we can reopen? He was the “savage” Miami fans were climbing for after two successful years at Houston. Despite losing several games he should’ve won. But he did beat an average OU team.

We sure missed out by not hiring the future coach at FAU.

And no, I don’t think DaBoer will fail at Alabama. He won’t have a run of titles like Nick Saban because the game is changed. I think he will be successful, will probably win a number $EC titles, and is a likely a shoo-in for $EC berths in the expanded CFP.

 

[Rellyrell]

Is there an old Tom Herman thread we can reopen? He was the “savage” Miami fans were climbing for after two successful years at Houston. Despite losing several games he should’ve won. But he did beat an average OU team.

We sure missed out by not hiring the future coach at FAU.

And no, I don’t think DaBoer will fail at Alabama. He won’t have a run of titles like Nick Saban because the game is changed. I think he will be successful, will probably win a number $EC titles, and is a likely a shoo-in for $EC berths in the expanded CFP.

There’s a stark difference between Tom Herman & Kalen DeBoer:

Herman at UH (G5 version):
Yr 1: 13-1
Yr 2: 9-3

Texas (Big 12):
Yr 1: 7-6
Yr 2: 10-4
Yr 3: 8-5
Yr 4: 7-3

DeBoer at FrSU (G5):
Yr 1: 3-3
Yr 2: 9-3

UW (PAC-12):
Yr 1: 11-2
Yr 2: 14-1

Bama (SEC):
Yr 1: 9-4
Yr 2: ?

The difference is Herman started out hot & fizzled. He went 13-1, & then went a combined 41-21. DeBoer started 3-3, & then went a combined 43-10. Whether it’s been Sioux Falls, FrSU, UW, or now Bama, Yr 1 for him has been his worst (ex. Sioux Falls went 11-2 then 14-0), & it’s gotten better thereafter.

If Bama has another yr 1 under DeBoer, not only would I be thoroughly shocked, but I would gladly eat crow. I highly doubt it, but we’ll see.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Is there an old Tom Herman thread we can reopen? He was the “savage” Miami fans were climbing for after two successful years at Houston. Despite losing several games he should’ve won. But he did beat an average OU team.

We sure missed out by not hiring the future coach at FAU.

And no, I don’t think DaBoer will fail at Alabama. He won’t have a run of titles like Nick Saban because the game is changed. I think he will be successful, will probably win a number $EC titles, and is a likely a shoo-in for $EC berths in the expanded CFP.

You never want to be the guy who follows the GOAT. DeBoer is a top tier coach, but if he doesn’t win a national championship in the next 3 years, I think Bama will look to replace him even if he wins a SEC championship. He won’t deserve to get fired but that’s what happens when there is an expectation of winning a championship every season. IMO he would be an ideal replacement for Cristobal when the time comes.

 

[Rellyrell]

I think anything less than 8 wins undercuts us being stable. 9 or more and I feel better. I have us at 7-8 wins. I think Mario is a 7-9 win coach who can some better years but I’m not optimistic on his ceiling. Last year was the year and we didn’t even get to the ACCCG.

That’s lowering the standards. 7-9 wins ≠ CFP. We didn’t pay $8m/yr for 7-9 wins. We could’ve stayed at $4.5m/yr for those results.

Our worst yr should be a 9-4 season. Clemson fans was ready to throw Dabo on the streets for that 2023 season. For them, it’s now ACC Chips + CFP births at min or bust.

Cristobal w the amount of resources allocated to him should be at a min. 10 win perennial program. 7-9 is out, fr fr.

 

[RVACane]

That’s lowering the standards. 7-9 wins = CFP. We didn’t pay $8m/yr for 7-9 wins. We could’ve stayed at $4.5m/yr for those results.

Our worst yr should be a 9-4 season. Clemson fans was ready to throw Dabo on the streets for that 2023 season. For them, it’s now ACC Chips + CFP births at min or bust.

Cristobal w the amount of resources allocated to him should be at a min. 10 win perennial program. 7-9 is out, fr fr.

I’m not lowering any standards and I’m not saying that’s what we paid $8m per year for as I have specified. I’m not saying that what he’s won is what we paid for. I’ve posted clearly how I feel about the overall performance. All this is a given to me or anyone who’s followed my posts.

So getting to what I’m talking about, particularly here, I’ve said that the positive consolation I see in his tenure is that he stabilized the program - which is the most basic, important thing we needed. I stand by that. Doesn’t mean I think we got what we hoped or paid for but we did get what we absolutely needed which is some stability.

You can look at everything and just say it sucks or you can try to find something positive to build on while stating that he hasn’t met expectations in terms of taking the program to a higher level.

 

[Jonnyblaze]

That’s lowering the standards. 7-9 wins = CFP. We didn’t pay $8m/yr for 7-9 wins. We could’ve stayed at $4.5m/yr for those results.

Our worst yr should be a 9-4 season. Clemson fans was ready to throw Dabo on the streets for that 2023 season. For them, it’s now ACC Chips + CFP births at min or bust.

Cristobal w the amount of resources allocated to him should be at a min. 10 win perennial program. 7-9 is out, fr fr.

Dabo didn’t set that standard overnight. It took 5 seasons for Clemson to reach 10 regular season wins under him.

 

[Rellyrell]

Dabo didn’t set that standard overnight. It took 5 seasons for Clemson to reach 10 regular season wins under him.

It took him 3 seasons, playa.

He was an interim mid season (after Tommy Bowden got fired) in 2008.

His first official season was 2009.
2009: 9-5
2010: 6-7
2011: 10-4

I don’t know y ya’ll keep thinking it takes 5 yrs to turn around a program, & frankly I’m tired of that myth. Miami fans keep using Butch Davis as this guideline that it takes 5 yrs, w/o understanding
1. That was 30 yrs ago
2. Butch’s 1st 3 yrs were under harsh NCAA penalties

It takes 2-3 yrs to turn around a program & history shows this which is y I said if we win 10+ wins this season (regardless of a ACC title), it will show our trajectory is past all of Mario’s predecessors.

 

[JamesQuall]

Dabo didn’t set that standard overnight. It took 5 seasons for Clemson to reach 10 regular season wins under him.

Bro **** Dabo but why are you trying do this?

He won 9 games his 1st full season and 10 his 3rd season and followed it up with 11 in his 4th and has been a top 3 HC since with 4 National championship appearances and 2 wins.

Are you trying to make Mario look better by putting Clemson and Dabo down?

Like what are we even doing?