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Issiah Walker

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Zbrod95 said:
We can have both. Take Williams the the spot open now and enroll Walker in the fall and let him take one of this year’s spots. I think I already mentioned it earlier if ya missed but we did this exact thing with Jaelen.
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No. We. Didn't.

You don't understand how the IC rules work.

We have one IC slot left for the 2020-2021 school year. That's it.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
No. We. Didn't.

You don't understand how the IC rules work.

We have one IC slot left for the 2020-2021 school year. That's it.
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Roster counters reset every August 1st. If Walker enrolls after August 1st, he can be counted forwards or backwards. We can take Williams part of the 2020 class and Walker part of the 2021 class. Also we can have Moise greyshirt and have him also counted on the 2021 class. USC counted both Chris Steele and Bru McCoy in their 2020 class and not their 2019 class. Also since Walker counted towards Florida's 2020 class AND signed a NLI, he wouldnt be able to count for Miami 2020 class.

IMO Walker should be viewed as a 2021 recruit.
 
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Southside Cane said:
Roster counters reset every August 1st. If Walker enrolls after August 1st, he can be counted forwards or backwards. We can take Williams part of the 2020 class and Walker part of the 2021 class. Also we can have Moise greyshirt and have him also counted on the 2021 class. USC counted both Chris Steele and Bru McCoy in their 2020 class and not their 2019 class. Also since Walker counted towards Florida's 2020 class AND signed a NLI, he wouldnt be able to count for Miami 2020 class.

IMO Walker should be viewed as a 2021 recruit.
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The issue is their ability to attend school in the Fall and receive financial aid as a student athlete. If we want to offer Williams, Walker or Moise an athletic scholarship to join the team this coming Fall, they must be counted towards the class of 2020. And it seems everyone agrees there are already 24 initial counters with a max of 25 allowed, with only one left. So they either have to wait until the Spring session to enter school on athletic scholarship as part of the class of 2021, or they need to pay for tuition & fees themselves with the help of need-based financial aid. But they cannot attend during the Fall with an athletic scholarship.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.
 
Without knowing their family situation, it may be possible, even likely, that Walker and Moise could get full coverage for the Fall under standard need-based financial aid and could practice with the team as PWOs. But they'd have to be REALLY motivated to go to Miami, given they could get an athletic scholarship at pretty much any other top program they wanted to join. Their cases are so special that this option still might work with them.
 
Southside Cane said:
Roster counters reset every August 1st. If Walker enrolls after August 1st, he can be counted forwards or backwards. We can take Williams part of the 2020 class and Walker part of the 2021 class. Also we can have Moise greyshirt and have him also counted on the 2021 class. USC counted both Chris Steele and Bru McCoy in their 2020 class and not their 2019 class. Also since Walker counted towards Florida's 2020 class AND signed a NLI, he wouldnt be able to count for Miami 2020 class.

IMO Walker should be viewed as a 2021 recruit.
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Wrong.

Completely and totally wrong.

The IC counter is for AUGUST ENROLLMENT. And you can ENROLL EARLY.

Thus, all of the January and June 2020 enrollees count towards the August 2020 school year.

You are speaking with MASSIVE ignorance of the rules. Completely misstating the rules. There's no such thing as a "roster counter reset". You cannot count "forwards or backwards". Only back. NOT forward. There's no such thing as "forwards". Only "now" and "backwards".

There is a list. The list, for the 2020-2021 academic year, will be certified and submitted in August 2020. It will include all recruited scholarship football players who have enrolled for the fall semester OR WHO ENROLLED EARLY. Early is allowed. Forward counting is NOT allowed. You can't sign 50 kids, taking 25 "backwards" and 25 "forwards". It simply doesn't work that way.

Chris Steele and Bru McCoy are two completely different cases.

First, Bru McCoy ENROLLED at USC in January 2019. He could have counted towards the 2018-2019 class (assuming USC had any countbacks) or else he would have counted towards the 2019-2020 class. He then transferred to Texas, WHERE THEY ALSO HAD TO COUNT HIM AS AN IC UNDER THE SAME RULES. Then, McCoy transferred BACK to USC, but he did not have to count as an IC all over again, because he was ALREADY an IC at USC.

You are simply misstating the rules when you claim that a person can't be an IC at two separate schools in the same year. A player like that ABSOLUTELY can be an IC at two separate schools for the same year.

You are just wrong, wrong, wrong on every aspect of reading and interpreting the IC rules. They don't work the way that you claim they work.

It doesn't matter what your "IMO" opinion is, you are factually wrong.

We have one IC slot left. There are no "wink-wink, just wait until after August 1 to enroll" loopholes.

And stop casually mention Moise "grayshirting". If the kid wants to wait until January 2021 to enroll in college, that's his choice, but he is FAR BETTER OFF going to prep school. The kid basically took 4 years of high school classes in 1 year, and he is ineligible to play Division I-A football in the 2020-2021 year. He needs to go to Fork Union.
 
grover said:
The issue is their ability to attend school in the Fall and receive financial aid as a student athlete. If we want to offer Williams, Walker or Moise an athletic scholarship to join the team this coming Fall, they must be counted towards the class of 2020. And it seems everyone agrees there are already 24 initial counters with a max of 25 allowed, with only one left. So they either have to wait until the Spring session to enter school on athletic scholarship as part of the class of 2021, or they need to pay for tuition & fees themselves with the help of need-based financial aid. But they cannot attend during the Fall with an athletic scholarship.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.
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Thank you for your sanity.

"FALL TERM" counts for "THAT ACADEMIC YEAR". Not "next academic year". No such thing as "forwards" when you are talking about a fall enrollee.

If someone wants to wait until Spring (the SECOND term of the academic year), he can count towards THAT academic year or the NEXT academic year (which would actually be an "early enrollee" for the NEXT academic year).

--Walker - if he enrolls in August (or earlier), he counts as an IC for THIS YEAR. 2020-2021. All of the kids who enrolled EARLY in 2020 will ALSO count towards 2020-2021, assuming we have no countbacks (and I have already posted multiple times that we have no remaining countbacks).

--Williams - if he enrolls in August (or earlier), he counts as an IC for THIS YEAR, same as Walker.

--Moise - if he enrolls in January, and assuming we enroll Walker or Williams, he will count as an IC for NEXT YEAR, as an "early enrollee" for 2021-2022, same as any other HS kid who enrolls in January 2021.
 
TOC, I agree with everything you wrote above.

But hypothetically, Walker and Moise could be PWOs in the Fall and count to the 2021 class in the Spring if they truly wanted to play at Miami, correct? Or am I wrong there?

It just seems to me that if their families qualify for need-based financial aid, there's not much difference for them in walking on than coming in on scholarship. Walker already practiced at UF and Moise is academically ineligible, so both would need to redshirt regardless of which program they attended. At least at Miami, Walker is with his family and community, and Moise isn't going to prep school. Then they get their athletic scholarships in January.

These two are very special cases where being PWO may just be in everyone's best interest, again, assuming they'll receive full financial aid based on need from the school for the Fall. Possible?
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Wrong.

Completely and totally wrong.

The IC counter is for AUGUST ENROLLMENT. And you can ENROLL EARLY.

Thus, all of the January and June 2020 enrollees count towards the August 2020 school year.

You are speaking with MASSIVE ignorance of the rules. Completely misstating the rules. There's no such thing as a "roster counter reset". You cannot count "forwards or backwards". Only back. NOT forward. There's no such thing as "forwards". Only "now" and "backwards".

There is a list. The list, for the 2020-2021 academic year, will be certified and submitted in August 2020. It will include all recruited scholarship football players who have enrolled for the fall semester OR WHO ENROLLED EARLY. Early is allowed. Forward counting is NOT allowed. You can't sign 50 kids, taking 25 "backwards" and 25 "forwards". It simply doesn't work that way.

Chris Steele and Bru McCoy are two completely different cases.

First, Bru McCoy ENROLLED at USC in January 2019. He could have counted towards the 2018-2019 class (assuming USC had any countbacks) or else he would have counted towards the 2019-2020 class. He then transferred to Texas, WHERE THEY ALSO HAD TO COUNT HIM AS AN IC UNDER THE SAME RULES. Then, McCoy transferred BACK to USC, but he did not have to count as an IC all over again, because he was ALREADY an IC at USC.

You are simply misstating the rules when you claim that a person can't be an IC at two separate schools in the same year. A player like that ABSOLUTELY can be an IC at two separate schools for the same year.

You are just wrong, wrong, wrong on every aspect of reading and interpreting the IC rules. They don't work the way that you claim they work.

It doesn't matter what your "IMO" opinion is, you are factually wrong.

We have one IC slot left. There are no "wink-wink, just wait until after August 1 to enroll" loopholes.

And stop casually mention Moise "grayshirting". If the kid wants to wait until January 2021 to enroll in college, that's his choice, but he is FAR BETTER OFF going to prep school. The kid basically took 4 years of high school classes in 1 year, and he is ineligible to play Division I-A football in the 2020-2021 year. He needs to go to Fork Union.
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If I had a beer for everytime you had to explain all this to people then I'd be drunk within the hour.
 
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itsacanething said:
If he transfers to FSU how do you know it wasn’t because we didn’t want him ? The FSU article says we might not be all in on him.
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Where the **** did I say we want him?

Facts are if he transfers because he needs to be close to home, but choose to go to FSU, then he dont really need to be close to home. That means he transferred out of UF for another reason. probably Hevesy being too hard on him and not giving him a starting spot right away. If he can’t be close to his family, why would he not go back to UF?

If he really need his family close, he can still play for Butch.
 
grover said:
TOC, I agree with everything you wrote above.

But hypothetically, Walker and Moise could be PWOs in the Fall and count to the 2021 class in the Spring if they truly wanted to play at Miami, correct? Or am I wrong there?

It just seems to me that if their families qualify for need-based financial aid, there's not much difference for them in walking on than coming in on scholarship. Walker already practiced at UF and Moise is academically ineligible, so both would need to redshirt regardless of which program they attended. At least at Miami, Walker is with his family and community, and Moise isn't going to prep school. Then they get their athletic scholarships in January.

These two are very special cases where being PWO may just be in everyone's best interest, again, assuming they'll receive full financial aid based on need from the school for the Fall. Possible?
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Again, I just want to highlight a couple of things.

Total cost of attendance at Miami, for a year, is nearly $75K. Walker just had a free-ride to Florida, a state school which costs significantly LESS. Not sure that either family can just afford to write a $75K check. Even Michael Irvin and Ray Lewis were happy to accept free-rides for their sons.

Second, if you walk-on, you have to wait one year for a grant-in-aid. So they wouldn't get a scholarship until Fall 2021.

Finally, I would point out that it seems fairly likely that Walker could get a waiver, particularly in a post-Coronavirus NCAA world.

And Moise could prep for one semester at Fork Union and come to Miami in January. Much cheaper and it would probably benefit him academically.
 
Mklein13 said:
If I had a beer for everytime you had to explain all this to people then I'd be drunk within the hour.
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Yessir, you would be blackout-drunk.

I wish that we didn't have so many PlayStation All Americans coming on the site to spout their misinterpretations of the NCAA rules.

Nobody has any incentive to lie to people by saying we only have one IC slot left (when, obviously, it is sooooo easy to exploit a loophole).

Coaches know we have one IC slot left. Recruits know we have one IC slot left. Sportswriters know we have one IC slot left.

But a couple of CIS geniuses have figured out a way for us to sign a half-dozen more recruits...

This would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.
 
grover said:
The issue is their ability to attend school in the Fall and receive financial aid as a student athlete. If we want to offer Williams, Walker or Moise an athletic scholarship to join the team this coming Fall, they must be counted towards the class of 2020. And it seems everyone agrees there are already 24 initial counters with a max of 25 allowed, with only one left. So they either have to wait until the Spring session to enter school on athletic scholarship as part of the class of 2021, or they need to pay for tuition & fees themselves with the help of need-based financial aid. But they cannot attend during the Fall with an athletic scholarship.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.
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If it’s only take 2-3 then u leave out Moise. Kid couldn’t get it done in the classroom no need to take a dumb kid
 
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