Is Lashlee Really Good or has our offense just been stuck in the past?

[pacusmc]

I'll admit that it took me a little while to come around to it. For me, it was Coker's last couple years, when it was really clear our offense was stagnating. A lot of us, myself included, became too married to 2000-02 Miami offense. It was beautiful no-frills football, but running it to that level of effectiveness required nothing short of the best offensive line in school history. If you don't have that kind of line (and face it, hardly anyone does), it just becomes too easy to defend.....defenses pretty much know exactly what is coming and they get too comfortable.

Anyway, we became Pro Style U, stubbornly clinging to a philosophy that even the NFL was moving away from. Miami became that which we used to laugh at. We became Oklahoma in the 80s, still running the wishbone. Worse, because at least OU still won enough games with their outdated offense to get to national title games.

Great point!
We basically ended the way college football offenses were run as well as the defenses.
Still recall people doubting Jimmy and his “speed over all” philosophy on defense.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Your question is kinda weird but its both I guess the way you ask it.. There are alot of posers who lie and say they run a spread or they use buzzwords to get jobs that sound good like multiple, pro spread, etc (enos fooled some). Lashlee is dyed in wool HUNH spread like they mentioned on tv, he has 2 modes, Foot mashed on the gas, or thru the cotdam floor. Its not just spread, you can be spread but half *** committed to fast pace offense. Actually not alot of coaches feel comfortable running a hurry up no huddle, they only half way crooks.

Lashlee is special because he grew up in this offense, he played in it, still has records from high school football from seeing how it works and why. Its why he can call Nkosi over on a play and say hey just do this, you can do it with your eyes closed and the wr will be open in back of endzone and Nkosi goes out and throws to Redding wide open. He knows the ins and outs of the offense, he was baptized in it, Started as GA, seen how that offense works and doesnt in the SEC, worked way to OC in SEC. Struck out on his own and went and learned the dark arts of Air Raid to become strong where the Malzahn HUNH was weak, spent 2 years doing that. He has obviously evolved and grown.

A true spread guru would get results, but every spread guy isnt true HUNH. Our Pace helps alot and stresses defenses in many way. We are benefiting from a guy who has a certain mindset of if we are up 30, lets get to 50. Its a certain mindset many dont have. HUNH is a philosophy not everyone is comfortable with or even knows how to run correctly.

Now I'm even more depressed about the foregone conclusion of losing him.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Spread can work without tempo, but if you actually do tempo you have to be committed to it from the top down and understand the pros and cons of it and how it affects your defense and everything. Malzahn talked bout it in his book many moons ago. Diaz has long discussed how yards a game is a bad measure and how he like to look at YPP more, so he understands it. Diaz was also at Texas when the air raid was taking over Big 12, he has seen those Briles offenses up close. He coached in SEC with and against spreads. If you commit to it, you dictate the game soo much and make other teams react to you

This is why the Enos hire was so surprising.

I was getting excited about names like Cale Gundy, and then he hired Enos.

I'd love to get a candid answer from him about the decision-making behind that.

Was it to "poach" a guy from Bama for the clout? Did Enos convince him of the dreaded "multiple" offense?

For as into analytics as Manny is, going with a guy who runs a slooooooooow offense made zero sense.

 

[skyman]

This is why the Enos hire was so surprising.

I was getting excited about names like Cale Gundy, and then he hired Enos.

I'd love to get a candid answer from him about the decision-making behind that.

Was it to "poach" a guy from Bama for the clout? Did Enos convince him of the dreaded "multiple" offense?

For as into analytics as Manny is, going with a guy who runs a slooooooooow offense made zero sense.

Had to be the bama clout. We got caught slippin and bought the hype, Bama was coming off record setting offense with Tua and every offensive coach from bama was benefiting.. Enos got alot of face time but he was just the qb coach, when he was actually OC at Arky and whatever directional michigan school as HC you look at those offenses and it wasnt close. He probably told Manny what he wanted to hear, and just leaned on bama highlights to do the selling. It happens. We had people selling Enos as some spread rpo guru and then when he did interview on 560 he said he just learned RPO stuff that year at bama, lol..

Just a big mistake, just happy it was bad enough to let him go in year one, you know you have to be really bad to go in another direction that quick

 

[skyman]

Now I'm even more depressed about the foregone conclusion of losing him.

you and me both, just hoping with covid no one really fires their staff due to numbers crunch and we can get atleast 2 years. Thats asking for alot at the pace we are going, lol..

 

[AlexCane]

you and me both, just hoping with covid no one really fires their staff due to numbers crunch and we can get atleast 2 years. Thats asking for alot at the pace we are going, lol..

Look at it this way though-Manny now has a template for what the offense should be. So, even if Lashlee leaves at some point, there isn't much question about what kind of offense Manny should be running.

 

[canesbaby]

Look at it this way though-Manny now has a template for what the offense should be. So, even if Lashlee leaves at some point, there isn't much question about what kind of offense Manny should be running.

I get what you guys are saying and I understand the concern but I look at teams like Oklahoma and Ohio State who, at least to a guy like me who hasn't done a lot of reading on the subject, are able to keep their staff together without much turnover each year. I'm sure they pay their guys premium salaries but it sure seems like UM is more willing to do that now also. Do Oklahoma and Ohio State have success because their head coaches are also the OC/play caller?

If Lash wants to be a head coach somewhere in the near future, there's nothing anyone can do about that. But in the meantime I feel like we have a fighting chance to keep him around for a little while.

 

[skyman]

I get what you guys are saying and I understand the concern but I look at teams like Oklahoma and Ohio State who, at least to a guy like me who hasn't done a lot of reading on the subject, are able to keep their staff together without much turnover each year. I'm sure they pay their guys premium salaries but it sure seems like UM is more willing to do that now also. Do Oklahoma and Ohio State have success because their head coaches are also the OC/play caller?

If Lash wants to be a head coach somewhere in the near future, there's nothing anyone can do about that. But in the meantime I feel like we have a fighting chance to keep him around for a little while.

Yea offense is the rule of the day, its why OC get HC jobs more than DC. Both those examples have had offensive type coaches in HC role. There is a level of continuity there and they have an idea of how they want it to look. With a DC, you will be scrambling every couple years like a saban or whatever to hit on the right guy.

 

[Mackmiller974]

Had to be the bama clout. We got caught slippin and bought the hype, Bama was coming off record setting offense with Tua and every offensive coach from bama was benefiting.. Enos got alot of face time but he was just the qb coach, when he was actually OC at Arky and whatever directional michigan school as HC you look at those offenses and it wasnt close. He probably told Manny what he wanted to hear, and just leaned on bama highlights to do the selling. It happens. We had people selling Enos as some spread rpo guru and then when he did interview on 560 he said he just learned RPO stuff that year at bama, lol..

Just a big mistake, just happy it was bad enough to let him go in year one, you know you have to be really bad to go in another direction that quick

Tua and Hurts gave a lot of credit to Enos for their success. I would imagine it was a clout thing to sell Recruits. Diaz is a first year HC and wanted to make a Splashy hire rather then the right hire. So he poached Nick Saban handpicked OC. Did Saban a favor in my opinion. He landed Sarkisian as a OC who I'm a big fan of.. if for some weird reason we need to hire a HC, he would be on my short list.

 

[AlexCane]

I get what you guys are saying and I understand the concern but I look at teams like Oklahoma and Ohio State who, at least to a guy like me who hasn't done a lot of reading on the subject, are able to keep their staff together without much turnover each year. I'm sure they pay their guys premium salaries but it sure seems like UM is more willing to do that now also. Do Oklahoma and Ohio State have success because their head coaches are also the OC/play caller?

If Lash wants to be a head coach somewhere in the near future, there's nothing anyone can do about that. But in the meantime I feel like we have a fighting chance to keep him around for a little while.

Well, if he wants to be a HC (and I don't know whether he does or doesn't) then no amount of money we could offer him to stay as OC will be sufficient.

Separately, it'll be curious to see what impact COVID has on hiring/retaining Lashlee. If both public and private institutions are hurting financially, that could put a crimp on how much anyone could offer Lashlee, including Miami.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

The last 10-15 years our offense has just been horrible. The is the first year we have ran the spread and Lashlee has made this offense look upper echelon. So is it just the change of scheme or is he just a really good play caller/OC?

Both. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There have been many of us who have been screaming at the top of our lungs while blowing air horns about this very subject. We have been saying for years that we need to go to a spread offense because it fits our local talent and is a culture fit. We have been saying for years that if only this administration would be smart enough to realize this and go out and get a bright offensive mind who runs a spread type system that the shot in the arm it would give this program could allow us to gain the leverage needed to recruit at a high level and get back to being annual playoff contenders.

Through all these years we have had to endure a never ending cavalcade of buffoons saying that the spread offense was just a fad in between their never ending chants of "Pro Style Bro!". We would talk about "Pace and Space" while these mouth breathers just wouldn't shut up about "Under Center Bro!" and "I Formation Bro!" and "Ken Dorsey for OC", "Bring back Chud" and other such delusional nonsense. In the end we are all Cane fans here but let me tell you.....Vindication feels good. Like @k9cane would say.....It feels great to finally be able to throw away my Blockbuster card and crank up some Netflix!

 

[5ringshowboutu]

Man lashlee has transformed our offense with king! Its actually exciting to watch and there's hope on 3rd and longs.

But we also beat UAB, Louisville kinda close and the worst acc team in our conference.

 

[KANE]

Spread can work without tempo, but if you actually do tempo you have to be committed to it from the top down and understand the pros and cons of it and how it affects your defense and everything. Malzahn talked bout it in his book many moons ago. Diaz has long discussed how yards a game is a bad measure and how he like to look at YPP more, so he understands it. Diaz was also at Texas when the air raid was taking over Big 12, he has seen those Briles offenses up close. He coached in SEC with and against spreads. If you commit to it, you dictate the game soo much and make other teams react to you

This website it almost 10 years old, there are ALOT of receipts of guys who loved seeing fullback in flats just to have Maurice Hagens on the field. EVERYONE wanted bro style, When Hocutt was looking for HC he stated he wanted someone who would bring pro style bro offense because preparing some players for NFL BS. (nevermind winning actual college games with attractive style), we had former players like Portis on radio clamoring for old days like some notre dame player, we had TONS of fans screaming pro style bro, this is NFLU bro, We develop QBS bro (LMAOO).

Go look at some of those rosters last decade and see how much we wasted, it ****es me off man to no end. To follow this team and see how inept we were with our talent while watching any college ball and even Saban adopting it with unlimited talent at his disposal. Better late than never tho, Covid and all, limited crowd but I was in the building watching us BURY FSU. Beheading them on national TV, gives soo much joy.. Lol

Your entire program must be committed! We went spread around 2010-2011 (somewhere in there). We were in a really tough region (in GA) and was averaging about 7-8pts. per game. Went to a Tony Franklin clinic in Tennessee. He was at La Tech at the time. The first thing Tony said was, "Head Coaches. If you brought your DC with you to this clinic, and he's not ok with you scoring 70, because of the quick scoring (having to get your D back on the field really fast), that this offense provides, when you get home... fire his a$$. And on the other side of things, if he's not ok with giving up 70, because of all of the uptempo 3 and outs.... when you get home, fire... his....a$$!" I was scared because I was like the number 2 guy on our Defense . Anyways, to run this offense, and be good at it, EVERYONE must be committed. First year we ran it, our scoring average jumped to 28ppg. Year 2... around 34ppg. I've been a proponent of it, every since. *** Sidenote: It was at this Clinic that I met the DC at Miss. State. Yep, our very own, Manny Diaz. He gave me a few min of his time after his presentation and we chatted about how to try to slow these spread offenses down. Never thought he would one day be the head coach at the University of Miami.

 

[KANE]

Lashlee is **** good and i suggest you enjoy every **** game we have him becuz he'll be gone in 2 years max

That said, King is the best QB we've had in 20 years and makes any OC look good. ****, Enos would still be here if King was QB last year. Richt prob still here if he has King instead of Rosier and we prob make the playoff that year. ( any yes i realize this comparison aren't truly fair and big part of the reason King came is becuz of Lash)

ALL of this !

 

[DemCanesByke]

Lashlee is very good he is a good playcaller who adjusts to what the defense is doing and the scheme fits our players so much better. However king is the key to the whole thing. When they put perry in offense didn't look as good.

 

[LPK2006]

2016 is one of those years that you just shake your head at talent, 2012 is another off top of head, but 2016 we had:

Walton
Yearby
Gus Edwards
Homer (deep on bench)
Ahmmon Richards
Stacey Coley
Berrios
Njoku
Herndon
and malcolm Lewis to round it out
McDermott and isadora on oline

Sigh

To be fair, when Kaaya was getting comfortable in the later part of the year, that offense was rolling pretty well. I think one of the limiting factors there was that BK was an absolute zero threat to take off running the ball. It's gotten to the point where it's a tough go of it if your offense doesn't have that aspect.

 

[LPK2006]

Lashlee is very good he is a good playcaller who adjusts to what the defense is doing and the scheme fits our players so much better. However king is the key to the whole thing. When they put perry in offense didn't look as good.

Yeah, I really like Lashlee, don't get me wrong, but he has a smart, talented QB to work with here, as well as elite TEs and great versatile RBs. Lashlee is good, but let's face it, I think a lot of OCs would be putting up numbers with these guys. The offense has elite talent at several important positions, decent talent at WR even though it hasn't truly showed out yet, and a seemingly improving offensive line. He's got a lot to work with.

 

[swampcougar1]

Answer to thread title question is both

 

[DTP]

Both. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There have been many of us who have been screaming at the top of our lungs while blowing air horns about this very subject. We have been saying for years that we need to go to a spread offense because it fits our local talent and is a culture fit. We have been saying for years that if only this administration would be smart enough to realize this and go out and get a bright offensive mind who runs a spread type system that the shot in the arm it would give this program could allow us to gain the leverage needed to recruit at a high level and get back to being annual playoff contenders.

Through all these years we have had to endure a never ending cavalcade of buffoons saying that the spread offense was just a fad in between their never ending chants of "Pro Style Bro!". We would talk about "Pace and Space" while these mouth breathers just wouldn't shut up about "Under Center Bro!" and "I Formation Bro!" and "Ken Dorsey for OC", "Bring back Chud" and other such delusional nonsense. In the end we are all Cane fans here but let me tell you.....Vindication feels good. Like @k9cane would say.....It feels great to finally be able to throw away my Blockbuster card and crank up some Netflix!

You are 100% correct. The fact that Miami stuck with an outdated pro system shows just how stupid and stuck in the past this program was. Same thing with the fans. One thing I've learned about Miami fans is that a lot of them don't watch college football outside of Miami games and old Miami highlight films from 30 years ago. They want to play the game like they did 20-30 years ago because the team was successful then but they don't realize that the game has moved on. You know why nobody uses the I formation or a base 4-3 defense anymore? Because you'll lose to everyone who has updated their schemes.

Lashlee is very good he is a good playcaller who adjusts to what the defense is doing and the scheme fits our players so much better. However king is the key to the whole thing. When they put perry in offense didn't look as good.

I'm pretty sure every team has a dip in offensive production when they put the backup quarterback in the game. There's a reason one guy is the starter and one guy is the backup. Also, all of Perry's playing time this year has been in mop up duty. They're purposely slowing the offense down because killing time becomes the priority over scoring fast when it's the 4th quarter and you're up 30 points.



I'm of the opinion that our offense would have drastically improved by hiring pretty much any spread/air raid guru but Lashlee was definitely a home run hire. I don't expect him to leave after this season because I don't think there's going to be many, if any power 5 head coaching jobs open. Schools are hurting for money and buying out coaches and dumping more money into new staffs is low on their priority lists. Now, after 2021, he gone. He'll be able to choose whatever gig he wants. Ideally, I'd like to keep his system here so that means Coach Justice or Coach Likens would have to be promoted to OC. Not sure they would have the play calling acumen that Lash has shown but it probably wouldn't be a major drop off, especially if we start signing better recruits. I'm curious to see how Lashlee uses a drop back guy like TVD next season. Everything we've seen this year more resembles Gus Malzahn's offense with a heavy emphasis on the QB running game. But last year at SMU he was more air raid-centric with Shane Buchelle. I'm curious if that was just Sonny Dykes' influence or if his playbook is really that flexible that he can account for a QB who's not much of a running threat.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

You are 100% correct. The fact that Miami stuck with an outdated pro system shows just how stupid and stuck in the past this program was. Same thing with the fans. One thing I've learned about Miami fans is that a lot of them don't watch college football outside of Miami games and old Miami highlight films from 30 years ago. They want to play the game like they did 20-30 years ago because the team was successful then but they don't realize that the game has moved on. You know why nobody uses the I formation or a base 4-3 defense anymore? Because you'll lose to everyone who has updated their schemes.


I'm pretty sure every team has a dip in offensive production when they put the backup quarterback in the game. There's a reason one guy is the starter and one guy is the backup. Also, all of Perry's playing time this year has been in mop up duty. They're purposely slowing the offense down because killing time becomes the priority over scoring fast when it's the 4th quarter and you're up 30 points.



I'm of the opinion that our offense would have drastically improved by hiring pretty much any spread/air raid guru but Lashlee was definitely a home run hire. I don't expect him to leave after this season because I don't think there's going to be many, if any power 5 head coaching jobs open. Schools are hurting for money and buying out coaches and dumping more money into new staffs is low on their priority lists. Now, after 2021, he gone. He'll be able to choose whatever gig he wants. Ideally, I'd like to keep his system here so that means Coach Justice or Coach Likens would have to be promoted to OC. Not sure they would have the play calling acumen that Lash has shown but it probably wouldn't be a major drop off, especially if we start signing better recruits. I'm curious to see how Lashlee uses a drop back guy like TVD next season. Everything we've seen this year more resembles Gus Malzahn's offense with a heavy emphasis on the QB running game. But last year at SMU he was more air raid-centric with Shane Buchelle. I'm curious if that was just Sonny Dykes' influence or if his playbook is really that flexible that he can account for a QB who's not much of a running threat.

Good post. I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you stated. About Lashlee I truly think that he is that flexible. That is part of the reason that he was such a homerun hire. Lash isn't just a bright spread OC. The guy is a difference maker bottom line. On top of having an effective and versatile offensive system, the guy has an uncanny feel for the game, is great making adjustments and know exactly when to throttle down and exactly when to rip out your throat. He's going to be an HC soon.