Is Diaz planning to run a 4-2-5 base with Grace a rover?

[supacane]

Grace is the size of most safeties, even smaller so this is no problem. The difference is Golden having 270 pound LBs that have no quickness moving out into the slot to cover WRs. What Grace is talking about Foster at VT has been doing it for years.

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[arizonacane]

Did I say that everybody runs Arizona's defense? No, I said Grace is a Nickle Linebacker. Defenses in the NFL are in the Nickle more than the base 4-3 or 3-4. And it is easier for a player to go from SS to a Will backer like Barron. It is much more difficult for a player to go from playing linebacker to Safety. Have you heard of a player going from linebacker to SS and be successful? I can't from the top of my head.

Carnell Lake. As mentioned by another poster earlier in this thread. Granted game has changed, but he was a better pro as a safety than he was LB in college.


Go Canes!

Lake was an All-American LB at UCLA, but undersized for the position in the NFL. He had the speed to move to the safety spot.

 

[252cane]

Did I say that everybody runs Arizona's defense? No, I said Grace is a Nickle Linebacker. Defenses in the NFL are in the Nickle more than the base 4-3 or 3-4. And it is easier for a player to go from SS to a Will backer like Barron. It is much more difficult for a player to go from playing linebacker to Safety. Have you heard of a player going from linebacker to SS and be successful? I can't from the top of my head.

Carnell Lake. As mentioned by another poster earlier in this thread. Granted game has changed, but he was a better pro as a safety than he was LB in college.


Go Canes!

Lake was an All-American LB at UCLA, but undersized for the position in the NFL. He had the speed to move to the safety spot.

Grace has the speed too and is only 205.

 

[jerzeycane]

Better hope to **** he stays healthy because if that's what we're asking our SAM to do he's the only one who can do it.

I think Pinkney could play the SAM... as a matter of fact I would have Pinkney at SAM and McCloud at Will... But then I would rather have McCloud blitzing off the edge ... his length will give him added advantage.

That's too much to ask from a freshmans.

Will be difficult at the Level of Play (D1) - but that's exactly how we play our SAM at the High School... Owens was our SAM and he Mastered it... But now with his size I would rather keep him in the Box... as a mater of fact if we could stretch him 1 more inch Owens would be the prototypical DE..

Interesting you mention that, because IMO, outside of Grace, Owens is the guy on our roster most tailor made to play SAM. As such, if Grace were to be out, I wonder if Owens would be moved to SAM. Seems the WILL and MIKE spots have more capable bodies ready to fill those roles.

Owens is such a rangy athlete.

How dudes forget DO is crazy to me.

Great bend and very flexible. I think he could play as a rush sometimes, but playing safety in high school makes him very comfortable in space. Extremely versatile.

Was really bummed when he got hurt.

 

[callmetrip]

Gayot would have been perfect in that role, man I hope that kid is ok, those scans look pretty bad.


Will be fun to see who emerges.

 

[plantcity3]

Grace is not 205.

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[RBhurricane87]

Carter would be ideal for the Rover position

I can fap to this...

 

[ErikAtlantaCane]

[MENTION=293]ghost2[/MENTION] [MENTION=10044]UknowWhat[/MENTION] So does a linebacker primarily play this( counting subs ), or teams also use safeties to fill that role? If so does Romeo Finley fit that bill if needed? Asking cause seems like you know a **** ton about this setup

 

[Canemang]

Grace is not 205

Carter would be ideal for the Rover position...

This

 

[drifters1234]

So unfortunate that Grace's immense talent was squandered in a big 10 defense for three years. Will be awesome to see him in a defense that capitalizes on his unique skill set.

 

[Coach Macho]

Kinda sounds similar to some of the stuff I do. We call that guy (Grace) a "Sam" too but he's really a hybrid player. Somebody who's between a Linebacker and a Strong Safety. He'll play a lot of coverage and he'll also blitz off the edge while we play a Cover-3 zone behind it. That's usually where my most talented/versatile player is. Last season I used a 6'3" 215lb converted basketball player at that spot. Kid was a back-up DE before I got there. He ended up earning himself a ride to Alcorn State as a Linebacker.

The good thing is, these kind of athletes grow on trees down here. You can find 6'0"-6'2" 205lb-220lb Linebackers with speed all over the place in South Florida. IMO you need to have this approach with all of the spread offenses we see nowadays. That's the main thing we're gonna see throughout our schedule considering the new HC hires that were made in the conference.

 

[sebringcanethang23]

Did I say that everybody runs Arizona's defense? No, I said Grace is a Nickle Linebacker. Defenses in the NFL are in the Nickle more than the base 4-3 or 3-4. And it is easier for a player to go from SS to a Will backer like Barron. It is much more difficult for a player to go from playing linebacker to Safety. Have you heard of a player going from linebacker to SS and be successful? I can't from the top of my head.

Carnell Lake. As mentioned by another poster earlier in this thread. Granted game has changed, but he was a better pro as a safety than he was LB in college.


Go Canes!

Lake was an All-American LB at UCLA, but undersized for the position in the NFL. He had the speed to move to the safety spot.

Sounds just like grace Imo

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[Samson Doyo]

Did I say that everybody runs Arizona's defense? No, I said Grace is a Nickle Linebacker. Defenses in the NFL are in the Nickle more than the base 4-3 or 3-4. And it is easier for a player to go from SS to a Will backer like Barron. It is much more difficult for a player to go from playing linebacker to Safety. Have you heard of a player going from linebacker to SS and be successful? I can't from the top of my head.

Carnell Lake. As mentioned by another poster earlier in this thread. Granted game has changed, but he was a better pro as a safety than he was LB in college.


Go Canes!

Lake was an All-American LB at UCLA, but undersized for the position in the NFL. He had the speed to move to the safety spot.

For some reason I thought he underperformed or didn't live up to pre-season hype his senior year at UCLA. I may be wrong. As a Steeler fan I'm biased as far as being a better pro. Either way, we agree he made the move and was a **** good safety in the NFL.

Go Canes!

 

[ghost2]

[MENTION=293]ghost2[/MENTION] [MENTION=10044]UknowWhat[/MENTION] So does a linebacker primarily play this( counting subs ), or teams also use safeties to fill that role? If so does Romeo Finley fit that bill if needed? Asking cause seems like you know a **** ton about this setup

Depends on the team and possibly even on the situation. You might see Grace running it or Carter or maybe somebody else depending on where Diaz wants to bring pressure from. I do think Finley would be a good prospect for this role as well - I initially thought of Wright because of how much of a "thumper" he is on his highlight tape. As Macho pointed out, this is a perfect position for recruiting typical SoFla linebackers - lean, rangy guys with speed who can be asked to either cover man-to-man or rush the QB.

That's the other kinda nice thing about what we're asking Grace et al to do in this scheme, IMO. It appears his responsibility is either man coverage or blitzing - that's a lot simpler than dealing with drops and pass-offs and all the intricacies of playing zone. Not that we won't see some Zone from our LBs occasionally I'm sure, but that Rover position (or "SAM" in our defense) is gonna be fun to watch with the type of athletes we have at our disposal.

Chise correctly pointed out that right now Grace is the only real guy we have on our roster who can play that role to its true effectiveness. Going forward though, I think we'll be recruiting a lot more "Grace"-type players. Incidentally, another guy I immediately thought of in this role from back in the day was Ramon Buchanan...

 

[gcane44]

[MENTION=293]ghost2[/MENTION] [MENTION=10044]UknowWhat[/MENTION] So does a linebacker primarily play this( counting subs ), or teams also use safeties to fill that role? If so does Romeo Finley fit that bill if needed? Asking cause seems like you know a **** ton about this setup

Depends on the team and possibly even on the situation. You might see Grace running it or Carter or maybe somebody else depending on where Diaz wants to bring pressure from. I do think Finley would be a good prospect for this role as well - I initially thought of Wright because of how much of a "thumper" he is on his highlight tape. As Macho pointed out, this is a perfect position for recruiting typical SoFla linebackers - lean, rangy guys with speed who can be asked to either cover man-to-man or rush the QB.

That's the other kinda nice thing about what we're asking Grace et al to do in this scheme, IMO. It appears his responsibility is either man coverage or blitzing - that's a lot simpler than dealing with drops and pass-offs and all the intricacies of playing zone. Not that we won't see some Zone from our LBs occasionally I'm sure, but that Rover position (or "SAM" in our defense) is gonna be fun to watch with the type of athletes we have at our disposal.

Chise correctly pointed out that right now Grace is the only real guy we have on our roster who can play that role to its true effectiveness. Going forward though, I think we'll be recruiting a lot more "Grace"-type players. Incidentally, another guy I immediately thought of in this role from back in the day was Ramon Buchanan...

From an athletic versatility perspective, Ramon had the tools for this position, but I remember getting so frustrated watching him in coverage. He got lost in coverage and spent more time in "no man's land" than just about any of our recent LBs that I can recall.

Most of us haven't seen this defense in action, so it may be hard to gauge. But isn't it likely that the SAM will have a rover role, but also spend significant time up on the LOS over the TE? If so, then that eliminates the ability for some of the DBs to play it full time, as the SAM will be tasked with essentially setting the edge in run responsibility (I could be mistaken).

Nonetheless, it all comes down to your first line -- "it depends on the team and possibly even on the situation"

 

[ghost2]

[MENTION=293]ghost2[/MENTION] [MENTION=10044]UknowWhat[/MENTION] So does a linebacker primarily play this( counting subs ), or teams also use safeties to fill that role? If so does Romeo Finley fit that bill if needed? Asking cause seems like you know a **** ton about this setup

Depends on the team and possibly even on the situation. You might see Grace running it or Carter or maybe somebody else depending on where Diaz wants to bring pressure from. I do think Finley would be a good prospect for this role as well - I initially thought of Wright because of how much of a "thumper" he is on his highlight tape. As Macho pointed out, this is a perfect position for recruiting typical SoFla linebackers - lean, rangy guys with speed who can be asked to either cover man-to-man or rush the QB.

That's the other kinda nice thing about what we're asking Grace et al to do in this scheme, IMO. It appears his responsibility is either man coverage or blitzing - that's a lot simpler than dealing with drops and pass-offs and all the intricacies of playing zone. Not that we won't see some Zone from our LBs occasionally I'm sure, but that Rover position (or "SAM" in our defense) is gonna be fun to watch with the type of athletes we have at our disposal.

Chise correctly pointed out that right now Grace is the only real guy we have on our roster who can play that role to its true effectiveness. Going forward though, I think we'll be recruiting a lot more "Grace"-type players. Incidentally, another guy I immediately thought of in this role from back in the day was Ramon Buchanan...

From an athletic versatility perspective, Ramon had the tools for this position, but I remember getting so frustrated watching him in coverage. He got lost in coverage and spent more time in "no man's land" than just about any of our recent LBs that I can recall.

Most of us haven't seen this defense in action, so it may be hard to gauge. But isn't it likely that the SAM will have a rover role, but also spend significant time up on the LOS over the TE? If so, then that eliminates the ability for some of the DBs to play it full time, as the SAM will be tasked with essentially setting the edge in run responsibility (I could be mistaken).

Nonetheless, it all comes down to your first line -- "it depends on the team and possibly even on the situation"

Yeah I was speaking more from an athletic skillset perspective on Ramon. I remember what you remember!

I also agree that we're probably making too much out of Grace's comments and what we consider to be a Sam vs. a Rover. I'm sure Grace will be in the box playing a traditional SAM role over the strongside during obvious run downs, etc. I just think Grace was/is excited about some of his newer responsibilities (playing over receivers and blitzing) and spoke accordingly.

 

[Ohio_Cane]

Gayot would have been perfect in that role, man I hope that kid is ok, those scans look pretty bad.


Will be fun to see who emerges.

His neck scans are out there on the internet?

 

[gcane44]

[MENTION=293]ghost2[/MENTION] [MENTION=10044]UknowWhat[/MENTION] So does a linebacker primarily play this( counting subs ), or teams also use safeties to fill that role? If so does Romeo Finley fit that bill if needed? Asking cause seems like you know a **** ton about this setup

Depends on the team and possibly even on the situation. You might see Grace running it or Carter or maybe somebody else depending on where Diaz wants to bring pressure from. I do think Finley would be a good prospect for this role as well - I initially thought of Wright because of how much of a "thumper" he is on his highlight tape. As Macho pointed out, this is a perfect position for recruiting typical SoFla linebackers - lean, rangy guys with speed who can be asked to either cover man-to-man or rush the QB.

That's the other kinda nice thing about what we're asking Grace et al to do in this scheme, IMO. It appears his responsibility is either man coverage or blitzing - that's a lot simpler than dealing with drops and pass-offs and all the intricacies of playing zone. Not that we won't see some Zone from our LBs occasionally I'm sure, but that Rover position (or "SAM" in our defense) is gonna be fun to watch with the type of athletes we have at our disposal.

Chise correctly pointed out that right now Grace is the only real guy we have on our roster who can play that role to its true effectiveness. Going forward though, I think we'll be recruiting a lot more "Grace"-type players. Incidentally, another guy I immediately thought of in this role from back in the day was Ramon Buchanan...

From an athletic versatility perspective, Ramon had the tools for this position, but I remember getting so frustrated watching him in coverage. He got lost in coverage and spent more time in "no man's land" than just about any of our recent LBs that I can recall.

Most of us haven't seen this defense in action, so it may be hard to gauge. But isn't it likely that the SAM will have a rover role, but also spend significant time up on the LOS over the TE? If so, then that eliminates the ability for some of the DBs to play it full time, as the SAM will be tasked with essentially setting the edge in run responsibility (I could be mistaken).

Nonetheless, it all comes down to your first line -- "it depends on the team and possibly even on the situation"

Yeah I was speaking more from an athletic skillset perspective on Ramon. I remember what you remember!

I also agree that we're probably making too much out of Grace's comments and what we consider to be a Sam vs. a Rover. I'm sure Grace will be in the box playing a traditional SAM role over the strongside during obvious run downs, etc. I just think Grace was/is excited about some of his newer responsibilities (playing over receivers and blitzing) and spoke accordingly.

Seems like Grace's versatility is key for us. And should we miss him for some games (knock on wood), we might need to change personnel more based on situation (i.e. playing a nickel back on passing downs in a rover role and subbing out the SAM). Even though, I still think Owens might have a similarly versatile skillset to Grace.

It's going to be very interesting to see who our starting LBs end up being once Owens is back

 

[rok]

Wasn't Perry a RB in high school? He's obviously not the caliber of athlete Grace is but maybe he's fast enough to step in if needed.

 

[WestEndZone]

Technically this ^^ is a 43 over front. You can expect our base front to look something like the above. It features a 6-tech SDE (head up the TE while playing the C-gap) and an overhang Sam/SS/Rover/Nickel playing the D-gap. I like to think this is more of a modified 44 than anything else. It can also be considered a 425 depending on how you label people and how your secondary functions.

Below is your classic 43 over front that we made famous. It features a 9-tech SDE (outside shoulder of the TE while playing the D-gap) and a stacked Sam playing a 50-tech (stacked over the tackle while playing the C-gap). Note that the lions liked to 2-gap the Nose, hence the red circle around him. This is not a bad idea if you have a player on your roster that is best suited for that type of technique.