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Interesting stat regarding the NFL Combine

KingB02 said:
Lol you can say this about any coach my guy. And some of those dudes were good evals because they were 2 stars that started/helped the team and some even got drafted and played in the league for a while. Lot of those dudes got in trouble and some of them injured. Can’t blame him for those.
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KingB02 said:
Lol you can say this about any coach my guy. And some of those dudes were good evals because they were 2 stars that started/helped the team and some even got drafted and played in the league for a while. Lot of those dudes got in trouble and some of them injured. Can’t blame him for those.
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My guy, my sweet prince…if you’re at Miami and sign a two star that ends up being a depth piece… it was a bad eval
 
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BoxingRobes said:
You've been failing to provide context for years. Your raw data dumps have constantly been refuted by myself, @bshaw28 and others. You make this post now as if its some revelation when others - like myself - have been saying our talent has fallen off a cliff...for years, not just now, all of a sudden. You've been propping up raw data based on a glut of day 3, fringe roster players for a decade now, brother. The ruse is over, I guess.

Glad you finally came around when it was all but obvious.

A'mod NeDMoney

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I just give you numbers. You give me terms like “mid NFL players.”

A “mid NFL player” should be a very good college player. It’s common sense. We once produced a lot of those guys. Now we don’t. That’s because our talent is dropping in a measurable, objective fashion.
 
DMoney said:
I just give you numbers. You give me terms like “mid NFL players.”

A “mid NFL player” should be an excellent college player. It’s common sense. We once produced a lot of those guys. Now we don’t. That’s because our talent is dropping in a measurable, objective fashion.
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Numbers that have provided better context to your raw data dumps have been provided in the past. You can search those up if you like, but now that you agree with me - albeit a decade later - whats the point. Welcome to the party, I guess.

Every year you "just give numbers" to prop up the idea that Miami didn't lack for talent, it just had underperforming talent, others on the board would tell you its not underperforming talent, its a lack of talent.

Not all NFL players should be or were excellent college players. Not all excellent college players are or should be a decent NFL player. That's common sense. The greatest NFL QB of all time, the GOAT of GOATs was splitting time with a minor league baseball player in college. Just like "excellent college player(s)" players go undrafted all the time. Its not linear. If you have looked at list of players with the most NFL talent, outside of a very few elite teams, there is no correlation to NFL talent and success in modern college football. Iowa, Washington, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Stanford, VaTech have a ton of NFL players - according to SportTrac - yet are usually 5, 6, 7, 8 win type teams...just like a us...and they all have or have had successful coaches to some extent (we have not).

We once did produce those players, but that ended long ago. Not just now. It has been dropping in a measurable, objective fashion for 15 years that context would have helped you understand, but you relied on raw data dumps to support a bad opinion. It happens.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Iowa, Washington, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Stanford, VaTech have a ton of NFL players - according to SportTrac - yet are usually 5, 6, 7, 8 win type teams...just like a us...
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This is exactly the point. Those teams weren’t Top 10 in NFL players for two decades straight. Our peers were teams like Alabama, Georgia and Clemson, as recently as a couple years ago. You know this because I posted the list every year.

Now, we’ve dropped to the 20s next to the programs in your post. That’s because our talent has dropped off.
 
Golden was good at recruiting a coaching OL because of Kehoe and Stoutland who were stellar. He sucked at the rest. Remember those late jags to fill classes. Bringing in 30 players witg 5 being decent. Rest was meh. Diaz, was good at recruiting squat. He is good at taking players already coached up and creating havoc. He was arrogant and not a good evaluator. F outa here with that, they told Ray Ray he too small. Go away. Recruiting is the basis of winning. They suck at it, we sucked on the field.
 
DMoney said:
This is exactly the point. Those teams weren’t Top 10 in NFL players for two decades straight. Our peers were teams like Alabama, Georgia and Clemson, as recently as a couple years ago. You know this because I posted the list every year.

Now, we’ve dropped to the 20s next to the programs in your post. That’s because our talent has dropped off.
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Pump the brakes. Alabama, Clemson were on that list...sure. Just like they are now. But, 10 years ago, it was USC, Florida, Florida State, Auburn. The names change, but the point still remains.

Also, I know you like to fight for your raw data numbers, but as you've been making these posts for years, you were also told they were propped up with long time NFL veterans from when we actually had talent on this team. Those raw data totals were also propped up by Day 3 picks and players that would barely be on NFL rosters. 2018, just a random example, Miami had 6 NFL Draft picks. Cool. Absolutely up there with Georgia, Ohio State, LSU.

As of this writing, one of those 2018 Miami players still plays in the NFL (Braxton Berrios). Georgia...all of them are still in the NFL including Nick Chubb and Roquan Smith. Ohio State...all of them are still in the NFL. LSU...all but Derrius Guice is still in the NFL.

FWIW - Alabama had 12 draft picks that year...only two (the last two picks, Bo Scarbrough and Joshua Frazier) are not playing in the NFL.

I'm not sure what to tell you, brother. You've been on the wrong side of this argument for years...its not a sudden, new revelation. Still, welcome to the party. Better late than never, I suppose. Still got some chips n dip, a few wedges of a Publix sub ring, some cold Publix tenders and a fruit platter no one has touched in the back. Help yourself.
 
DMoney said:
This is exactly the point. Those teams weren’t Top 10 in NFL players for two decades straight. Our peers were teams like Alabama, Georgia and Clemson, as recently as a couple years ago. You know this because I posted the list every year.

Now, we’ve dropped to the 20s next to the programs in your post. That’s because our talent has dropped off.
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@DMoney - there is a big difference between Quantity & Quality

That's what @BoxingRobes and myself continuously point out, but for whatever reason you won't acknowledge

The way you frame your "raw data" argument:

- Patrick Mahomes & Sklar Thompson are equal because they're both "NFL Players"
- A 1st Rounder & a 7th Rounder are equal because they're both "NFL Draft Picks"
- A GM should trade his 1st Round pick for 3 7th Round picks- because then he gets "3 NFL players for the price of 1"

If you want to use the NFL as a measuring stick of how much talent we have - then you have to look further than just "# of players drafted". That only accounts for Quantity, not Quality

When you look at - how many are drafted on Day 1, 2 & 3, and how many become Pro-Bowl/Starter/Back-up/Practice Squad level players - it's very easy to see how we're closer to Iowa than Alabama, and have been for 15+ years now.
 
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bshaw28 said:
@DMoney - there is a big difference between Quantity & Quality

That's what @BoxingRobes and myself continuously point out, but for whatever reason you won't acknowledge

The way you frame your "raw data" argument:

- Patrick Mahomes & Sklar Thompson are equal because they're both "NFL Players"
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This point keeps getting ignored because it’s irrelevant. Nobody is comparing Skylar Thompson to Mahomes, just like nobody is saying that a team with five Day 3 picks has the same talent as Alabama or Georgia with five First Rounders.

I’m comparing Skylar Thompson to the 98% of players who don’t get drafted. There were only five P5 QBs drafted last year. Skylar was one of them. He is, obviously, a high-end college talent because he passed a ruthless talent evaluation process to make the NFL.

Most teams aren’t littered with NFL players, whether they are first rounders or seventh. That’s why teams with the most NFL players typically compete for championships. It is a common-sense and objective way to measure talent.
 
DMoney said:
This point keeps getting ignored because it’s irrelevant. Nobody is comparing Skylar Thompson to Mahomes
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You're the one ignoring Quality vs Quantity (when it's convenient). You should be making those comparisons, and you are (when it's convenient)

I'm telling you there's a huge gap between Patrick Mahomes & Skylar Thompson, and that's relevant.

There's a very small gap between 7th RD Skylar Thompson & UFA D'Eriq King, which is also relevant.

The gap between a 7th RD & UFa is very small & you're trying to make it seem like a big gap those two.

DMoney: Nobody is saying that a team with five Day 3 picks has the same talent as Alabama or Georgia with five First Rounders.
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You actually JUST made that point. You're contradicting yourself.

You said "Our peers were teams like Alabama, Georgia and Clemson, as recently as a couple years ago. You know this because I posted the list every year."

But then you turn around say NO ONE is saying that, because as you point out, the Quality of 5 Day 1 picks is much different than the Quality of 5 day 3 picks.

So which one is it? Does Quality vs Quantity matter, or is it irrelevant?
 
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DMoney said:
Between 2017-2018, Miami had 18 players invited to the NFL combine. Between 2022-2023, there are only six.

We talk a lot about the drop off from elite Canes talent to the Shannon and Golden era. And that was indeed a massive drop. But there was another steep decline from that era to the Richt/Diaz years.
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told them boys our talent was going in the pits, its just been the truth for years, it wasnt even um level during the golden era and that shhyt took a downfall off a cliff.
 
bshaw28 said:
You said "Our peers were teams like Alabama, Georgia and Clemson, as recently as a couple years ago. You know this because I posted the list every year."

But then you turn around say NO ONE is saying that, because as you point out, the Quality of 5 Day 1 picks is much different than the Quality of 5 day 3 picks.

So which one is it? Does Quality vs Quantity matter, or is it irrelevant?
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You misread the post. When we ranked in the Top 10 in NFL players, the other teams on that list were programs like Alabama and Georgia. Nobody ever said we had their overall talent.

Alabama and Georgia have quantity AND first round quality. That’s the top level. What you keep missing is that having a quantity of NFL players is a lot better than lacking NFL talent altogether (like the rest of the Coastal).

Just like there is a huge difference between a first rounder and a seventh rounder, there is a huge difference between an NFL player and an accountant with a college jersey on his office wall. It’s common sense. That’s why only 2% of college players reach that level.

The fact that we are producing less NFL players is an obvious, objective sign of talent decline.
 
88 said:
Golden had so many misevaluations, its crazy to see all the short memories praising his evaluations just because Manny was horrendous.

His trench evals on both sides of the ball were devastatingly bad.

Darius Smith
Kevin Grooms
Ricardo Wiilliams
Jalen Grimble
Antonio Kinard
Thomas Finnie
Juniior Alexis
Hunter Wells
Thurston Armbrister
Jelani Hamilton
Raphael Kirby
Dwayne Hoilett
Robert Lockhart
Earl Moore
Jacoby Briscoe
Preston Dewey
Gray Crow
D'Mauri Jones
Jawand Blue
Jontavious Carter
Taylor Gadbois
Vernon Davis
Danny Dillard
Larry Hope
Nate Dortch
Gaby Terry
Jake O'Donnell
Dequan Ivery
Kevin Olsen
Beau Sandland
Standish Dobard
Ufomba Kumalu
Alex Gall
Hunter Knighton
Ray Lewis III
Rykeem Lockley
Kiy Hester
Darrion Owens
Mike Smith
Calvin Heurtelou
Michael Wyche
Ryan Mayes
Trayone Gray
Juwon Young
Marques Gayot
Terry McCray
Joe Brown
Darrel Langham
Bar Milo
Jerome Washington
Jahir Jones
Charles Perry
Jamie Gordinier
Brendan Loftus
Hayden Mahoney
Ryan Fines
Tyler Gauthier
Robert Knowlees
Evan Shirreffs
James King
Terrance Henley
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Man we have posters bring this man up every month as if he wasn’t a bad HC. Yes he found some talent but he let a lot of too talented kids go. His classes were filled with no qualifiers, eventual transfers, or kids that were overwhelmed from competing at this level. He was a bad talent evaluator. South Florida was loaded during his tenure and he didn’t take advantage of it.
 
Cookie917 said:
I may get flamed for this but Golden's issue IMO was not an eye for talent nor development. It was trying to turn Miami into Penn State and loyalty to coaches who had no business coaching with a system that was destined to fail with our players coupled with not wanting to play the local miami recruiting games.

I would be interested to see you do the same list with someone you do think was a good evaluator. I mean you may say Butch was the last good evaluator but the recruiting services are no where near what they are today. That is not taking anything from Butch just more difficult to compile such a list. Or look at Saban, do you think he is a good evaluator or simply is able to get the best kids year in and year out so when one 5* or high 4* "busts" it is not a black eye on a missed eval and instead someone new steps in.

Also need to throw in Golden was forced to find diamonds in the rough due to the sanction cloud for 3 years. I think your memory may be a little short in how bad that was. There was legit talk of a death penalty and I am sure even Mario would have a tough time recruiting against that to get the cream of the crop.

Golden had multiple faults but I actually think evals and development where part of his limited strong suits as oppose to liability.
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He was not forced to find diamonds in the rough. He was taking early commitments from kids who should not have been offered. It’s UM. The name alone will bring in a few talented kids but he let a lot of top talent go that would have played here.
 
Mklein13 said:
Was Perryman a Shannon recruit or did Golden snag him when he was hired for the final couple of months before signing day 2011?
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Golden signed him late but from what I gathered it was Barrow who lobbied to bring him in. I think he was leaning Miami until RS was fired then started flirting with fsu.
 
Why is Cohen in my mock drafts? I take him in rd 7 so he is a Bengal now. But for real, why
 

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Odysseus said:
Just guys invited to the combine won't be hard to do
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If youre implying Miami could get 10 id love to see a list. Even with a solid 8-9 win season using current roster max i see is 7.

TVD
Cohen
Zion idlf healthy
Taylor if improved
James Williams
Kam Kinchens
Davonte Brown
 
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