forums

How can you blame coaches when theres zero talent?

A coach gets a team full of wiry skinny guys with quickness but tries to make them into an I formation team that plows people over.

Team ends up sucking.

Fans who have no clue what they're looking at: there's no talent on this team.


Fans who have a clue: why are we even running this scheme if we don't have the horses too?
 
Advertisement
bshaw28 said:
We had 1 player drafted last year. Jonathan Ford in the 7th Round.

Gus Edwards was 5 years ago.

We've had 2 Day 1 & 2 players the last 4 drafts - Phillips & Rousseau - who both essentially only played 1 year at Miami and never on the same team.

Saying we have no talent is going way too far - but lack of talent is clearly a major issue
Click to expand...

We are tied for SEVENTH for NFL draft picks in the last five years.

Has our on field results been ANYWHERE near this level?

So we are top 14 in blue chip ratio and top 10 in draft picks, but we still play like ****. Can’t even be a solid top 25 program. No one is comparing us to the top 5, the NFL says we have a lot more talent than our results on the field.

The funny thing is, I hate using the draft as a gauge of how well a college team plays. I think it’s stupid. There are teams with fewer draft picks that have won a lot more games than us. I just posted this to shut down the narrative many of these posters try to push using their own argument against them.
 
TruCane81 said:
We are tied for SEVENTH for NFL draft picks in the last five years.

Has our on field results been ANYWHERE near this level?

So we are top 14 in blue chip ratio and top 10 in draft picks, but we still play like ****. Can’t even be a solid top 25 program. No one is comparing us to the top 5, the NFL says we have a lot more talent than our results on the field.

The funny thing is, I hate using the draft as a gauge of how well a college team plays. I think it’s stupid. There are teams with fewer draft picks that have won a lot more games than us. I just posted this to shut down the narrative many of these posters try to push using their own argument against them.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem...Yes, we are comparing ourselves to the Top 5 teams. This isn't directed at you because it's something everyone inadvertently does

OK....so Miami is 7th in NFL Draft picks the last 5 years - and we know there's a huge gap between Miami & Bama, Georgia, Ohio St, Clemson, etc.

OK...so how big is the gap between Miami & FSU, UNC, VT, Pitt? That comparison is rarely done - but the teams we play every year should be the comparison.

Our NFL talent is very close/similar to FSU, UNC, VT, Pitt. Our record is also very similar. But we always think we're so much better. That's just being a fan - but it's not reality.

The understanding of how big the gap is between Miami & Clemson is widely known & discussed. The understanding of how small the gap is between Miami & UNC is misunderstood & rarely discussed.
 
Last edited:
nobeastofburden said:
My point was fuzzy, I was actually trying to point out we didn't have guys drafted, had like the 20th most production coming back off a 7-5 team. I was pretty emphatic early in the season we just don't have a ton of talent. When I say that however, I'm comparing us to the best in cfb. Rather obvious to all of us how far we are talent wise from a Georgia. Our coaching actually made our guys look worse this year though. People claimed Rambo was going 2nd or 3rd rd. TVD first rounder, etc. The narrative changes all the time. Talent isn't losing against most teams we lose too. It is my belief other teams get guys drafted because they are better coaches and the players get coached up. Here.......I don't think it happens anymore.
Click to expand...
I agree our talent was overrated by most coming into this year. I think we play at or below our talent level, but rarely above it, which is frustrating.

I struggle with the "lack of development" argument because it's so subjective. We don't have much more players drafted than FSU, UNC, Pitt, VT - but we do have better recruiting rankings. So that lends itself to the lack of development argument.

At the same time - I don't see many players that transfer get better at other places with better coaching. I don't see many of our players outplay their draft position because NFL coaches get more out of their talent. So that lends itself to the they just weren't that talented to begin with argument.
 
bshaw28 said:
I agree our talent was overrated by most coming into this year. I think we play at or below our talent level, but rarely above it, which is frustrating.

I struggle with the "lack of development" argument because it's so subjective. We don't have much more players drafted than FSU, UNC, Pitt, VT - but we do have better recruiting rankings. So that lends itself to the lack of development argument.

At the same time - I don't see many players that transfer get better at other places with better coaching. I don't see many of our players outplay their draft position because NFL coaches get more out of their talent. So that lends itself to the they just weren't that talented to begin with argument.
Click to expand...
Fair points. Transfers coming in have been our best players though. So if it isn't player development, it is player evaluations. Still falls on coaches in my opinion.
 
The start of this thread is beyond dumb. The coaches should take 100% responsibility for this season. It starts and ends with MARIO and he made a calamity of errors this year with his coaching hires, poor execution in the portal, and just an abomination of day game coaching. What a disaster he turned out to be and we are stuck with him. The fact that he hasn't fired Gattis by now is even more troublesome.
 
bshaw28 said:
Here's the problem...Yes, we are comparing ourselves to the Top 5 teams. This isn't directed at you because it's something everyone inadvertently does

OK....so Miami is 7th in NFL Draft picks the last 5 years - and we know there's a huge gap between Miami & Bama, Georgia, Ohio St, Clemson, etc.

OK...so how big is the gap between Miami & FSU, UNC, VT, Pitt? That comparison is rarely done - but the teams we play every year should be the comparison.

Our NFL talent is very close/similar to FSU, UNC, VT, Pitt. Our record is also very similar. But we always think we're so much better. That's just being a fan - but it's not reality.

The understanding of how big the gap is between Miami & Clemson is widely known & discussed. The understanding of how small the gap is between Miami & UNC is misunderstood & rarely discussed.
Click to expand...

We have at least 10 more draft picks than each team you listed. Looking at teams with that many more than us you get into the lower playoff caliber teams (LSU, Michigan, etc).

Now when you compare us to teams with similar numbers, we are BY FAR the worst performing (Georgia, Norte Dame, Clemson, Oklahoma). All those teams have made the playoffs. Two have won national titles. I am well aware those teams have had more top end talent, but the disparity should not be so large.

More than anything what your post shows is there is a whole lot of corching in the ACC.
 
TruCane81 said:
We have at least 10 more draft picks than each team you listed. Looking at teams with that many more than us you get into the lower playoff caliber teams (LSU, Michigan, etc).

Now when you compare us to teams with similar numbers, we are BY FAR the worst performing (Georgia, Norte Dame, Clemson, Oklahoma). All those teams have made the playoffs. Two have won national titles. I am well aware those teams have had more top end talent, but the disparity should not be so large.

More than anything what your post shows is there is a whole lot of corching in the ACC.
Click to expand...

Your post proves my point of the problem when comparing up and not down. Again - this isn't directed at you because everyone including myself does it

Your assumption is both these sets of teams are 10 drafts picks apart - but the reality is FAR different

Miami vs FSU/UNC/Pitt/VT (Last 5 Drafts)
Overall Draft Picks - Miami has 5-7 MORE
Day 1&2 Draft Picks - Miami hs 0-3 LESS

The gap is very small - and Miami has less Top Tier talent

Miami vs LSU/Michigan (Last 5 Drafts)
Overall Draft Picks - Miami has 10-21 LESS
Day 1&2 Draft Picks - Miami hs 13-19 LESS

The gap is huge - and Miami has nowhere near the same Top Tier talent

1669757049647.png
 
Advertisement
I am so sorry I missed this post when it was in its full glory. I promise to do better next time.
 
WanderFranco said:
This has been explained ad nauseam, but no one bothers to learn anything new around here. Last year's team lived in a country club. Cool, they cared enough to win 7 games. Many players on this year's team has no interest in playing for a guy who has expectations.

Your theory is actually more bizarre. You absolutely believe that our players were out there giving it their all and that MTSU just outschemed us.
Click to expand...

Ad nauseum? Are your mental gymnastics to defend a ridiculous opinion giving you nausea?

I love the strawman you created. I'm sure it sounded very convincing in your own head. Do I "absolutely believe players were giving there all and MTSU outschemed UM"? No, players were not giving their all. Yes, MTSU out schemed UM to the point of humiliation.

I believe that the players thought the game would be a cakewalk and the coaches: 1. Didn't motivate the players to take the game seriously 2. MTSU had superb game planning and went surgically after UMs weaknesses, and 3. The UM coaches didn't expect MTSU to throw the ball all over the field and couldn't adjust. Cristobal was a dumbfounded when MTSU's coach was taking him to school.

Your comment that they had no interest playing for a "guy who has expectations" is hilarious. After King was lost to season ending surgery in the 3rd game of the season (where the first game was against Bama, which finished 13-2 and the 3rd game was against a Michigan St team that ended up winning 11+ games, which is where King got injured), UM then turned to a freshman QB. The 3 losses after that were by a combined TOTAL of 6 pts.

Compare that to eye violations that happened over and over again with Mario. Apparently the players will play hard for a coach with "no expectations" , and win 6 of the last 7, including wins over 2 top 25 teams- one of which was the ACC champ, but won't play hard for a coach with "expectations." Yeah, that makes all sorts of sense.

Here's another possibility, maybe they actually liked playing for Diaz and/or Lashlee. Football is a lot more fun when you know that your offense can score points and can keep you in games. Players know that even if they make a mistake, it isn't the end of the world because the offense will usually be able to make up for it. It's not fun when football is slow and boring, and the players are constantly worrying that one fumble or blown coverage is basically game over because the offense can't score points.
 
bshaw28 said:
Your post proves my point of the problem when comparing up and not down. Again - this isn't directed at you because everyone including myself does it

Your assumption is both these sets of teams are 10 drafts picks apart - but the reality is FAR different

Miami vs FSU/UNC/Pitt/VT (Last 5 Drafts)
Overall Draft Picks - Miami has 5-7 MORE
Day 1&2 Draft Picks - Miami hs 0-3 LESS

The gap is very small - and Miami has less Top Tier talent

Miami vs LSU/Michigan (Last 5 Drafts)
Overall Draft Picks - Miami has 10-21 LESS
Day 1&2 Draft Picks - Miami hs 13-19 LESS

The gap is huge - and Miami has nowhere near the same Top Tier talent

View attachment 217073
Click to expand...
bshaw28 said:
Your post proves my point of the problem when comparing up and not down. Again - this isn't directed at you because everyone including myself does it

Your assumption is both these sets of teams are 10 drafts picks apart - but the reality is FAR different

Miami vs FSU/UNC/Pitt/VT (Last 5 Drafts)
Overall Draft Picks - Miami has 5-7 MORE
Day 1&2 Draft Picks - Miami hs 0-3 LESS

The gap is very small - and Miami has less Top Tier talent

Miami vs LSU/Michigan (Last 5 Drafts)
Overall Draft Picks - Miami has 10-21 LESS
Day 1&2 Draft Picks - Miami hs 13-19 LESS

The gap is huge - and Miami has nowhere near the same Top Tier talent

View attachment 217073
Click to expand...

The numbers I used said 2022, but were actually the 2017 to 2021 drafts. Yours seem to be 2018-2022.

Still my point is that Miami, FSU, and UNC have underperformed considerably. Pitt has been pretty solid the last couple of seasons.

We should be competing much better in the 10-25 range and we are not.
 
TruCane81 said:
The numbers I used said 2022, but were actually the 2017 to 2021 drafts. Yours seem to be 2018-2022.

Still my point is that Miami, FSU, and UNC have underperformed considerably. Pitt has been pretty solid the last couple of seasons.

We should be competing much better in the 10-25 range and we are not.
Click to expand...
You said the last 5 drafts - so that's what I used

We don't have Top 10 talent. We do have flirting with the Top 25 talent. We're underachieving, but just by a little. Not considerably. We overrate our talent.

We have similar NFL Talent to FSU/UNC/Pitt/VT. Those 4 teams combined have 2 Top 25 finishes the last 5 years. We have 1. Similar talent, similar results.

Miami & LSU both have 20 total wins the last 3 season - but we act like Miami's struggles are the worst in the country.
 
bshaw28 said:
Here's the problem...Yes, we are comparing ourselves to the Top 5 teams. This isn't directed at you because it's something everyone inadvertently does

OK....so Miami is 7th in NFL Draft picks the last 5 years - and we know there's a huge gap between Miami & Bama, Georgia, Ohio St, Clemson, etc.

OK...so how big is the gap between Miami & FSU, UNC, VT, Pitt? That comparison is rarely done - but the teams we play every year should be the comparison.

Our NFL talent is very close/similar to FSU, UNC, VT, Pitt. Our record is also very similar. But we always think we're so much better. That's just being a fan - but it's not reality.

The understanding of how big the gap is between Miami & Clemson is widely known & discussed. The understanding of how small the gap is between Miami & UNC is misunderstood & rarely discussed.
Click to expand...
The bolded isnt true as they have owned us since joining the acc.

VT and Pitt are our rivals from Big East days so we know those teams well and fsu is our main rival.

Whats misunderstood is why do we lose to UVa, DUKE, and ****** MTSU. Do those teams....We know where we are in reference to fsu, unc, vt, and Pitt.
 
TruCane81 said:
Nope.

View attachment 216994

10 of these 15 teams are ranked and have performed mostly in line with there recruiting classes. Almost all have played multiple games against teams on this very list, so it skews win-loss record and rankings.

We are the only team on this list with a losing record besides aTm. We both have awful, out of date offenses that suppress our talent and locker room issues.

Auburn plays a murderous schedule and just replaced their coach who was a bad fit. Oklahoma and Florida are both under 1st year coaches. They have issues but are not devoid of talent.

So why are we the only team on this list that “has no talent”? It’s bullshyt the fan base keeps spewing to vent their frustration and coddle terrible coaching.

Our team hasn’t played well. Doesn’t mean we “have no talent”. It just means we haven’t played well for MANY reasons. There are coaches and players who need to be replaced. We need to improve our size, athleticism, and depth. None of that is in question.

Look at our performance from Enos to Lashlee to Gattis. The talent level didn’t change much, but the production certainly did. Talent is not equal to production. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to see.
Click to expand...
giphy-7.gif
 
Advertisement
gogeta4 said:
The bolded isnt true as they have owned us since joining the acc.

VT and Pitt are our rivals from Big East days so we know those teams well and fsu is our main rival.

Whats misunderstood is why do we lose to UVa, DUKE, and ****** MTSU. Do those teams....We know where we are in reference to fsu, unc, vt, and Pitt.
Click to expand...

MTSU was a disaster. But when you turn the ball over on your first 3 possessions, it's hard to overcome that against any team. Some games just go off the rails.

As to why we lose against Duke & UVA sometimes - I'd say the same reason UNC & Pitt lost to GT this year. Or why UNC is 1-4 vs GT in their last 5 games. 5-6 win type teams upset 8-9 win type teams in every conference every weekend.

Sure we're more talented than Duke - but not talented enough to overcome 8 turnovers (2022), or when leading at halftime, turning over 3 times in the 2nd half (2018). Or if the happen to catch us on an epic late season meltdown in 2019 when we lost to FIU, Duke, La Tech in a row (are we still sure 2022 was the worst ever?)

On paper we have a ton more NFL draft picks than UVA & Duke, but it's Day 1 & 2 guys that move the needle. Example - you can't trade a 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th RD pick for a 1st RD pick. Can't even get a 2nd RD pick. Can only get into the middle of the 3rd RD. That's how the NFL values these guys. So having a collection of NFL draft picks, but all late round guys, means it isn't going to be uncommon to get caught by lesser teams.

1669999909555.png
 
Back
Top