Here is a stat that will surprise some people

You dont think our defensive line improvement by changing their playstyle is relevant to our offensive line playing to their weakness despite having the talent to play another way?
You’re moving the goalposts. It’s silly. I have never absolved our putrid coaches for their part in our putrid performance.

You say ‘the talent is there‘ ... it’s all coaching’

But our OL deficiencies are not just a function of coaching. As always, it’s both. Bad coaching, bad development, bad evals, mediocre recruiting, lack of depth, lack of experience, all of it.
 
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You’re moving the goalposts. It’s silly. I have never absolved our putrid coaches for their part in our putrid performance.

You say ‘the talent is there‘ ... it’s all coaching’

But our OL deficiencies are not just a function of coaching. As always, it’s both. Bad coaching, bad development, bad evals, mediocre recruiting, lack of depth, lack of experience, all of it.

You still don't get it, after all this time. SMH. Who do you think is responsible for developing, evaluating, recruiting, scheming, & motivating-the coaches or the players? Your insistence on applying a false equivalency between the different variables is preventing you from conducting an ACCURATE root cause analysis.

$$$ > Coaching > Talent > Performance
 
Fascinating considering our QBs were second only to crash test dummies isn work site accidents, though runners were successful. Need a tactician to explain that difference.

We need to stop asking our linemen to hold blocks for “10 Mississippi” in our ****** bro style offense
 
You still don't get it, after all this time. SMH. Who do you think is responsible for developing, evaluating, recruiting, scheming, & motivating-the coaches or the players? Because you continue to apply a false equivalency it prevents from you conducting an ACCURATE root cause analysis. $$$ > Coaching > Talent > Performance
You sound insane. False equivalence? I have it crystal clear. Our crap coaches have been bad at pretty much everything, including evaluations, recruiting and roster management. As a result, our talent has been less than delusional star whores believe.
 
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You’re moving the goalposts. It’s silly. I have never absolved our putrid coaches for their part in our putrid performance.

You say ‘the talent is there‘ ... it’s all coaching’

But our OL deficiencies are not just a function of coaching. As always, it’s both. Bad coaching, bad development, bad evals, mediocre recruiting, lack of depth, lack of experience, all of it.

Yes, I'm putting all of this on the coaches. Hard for me to believe that Navaughn Donaldson, who was HANDLING guys better than the ones on FIU defensive line while in high school at Tackle, suddenly isn't talented enough to do it anymore.
 
Yes, I'm putting all of this on the coaches. Hard for me to believe that Navaughn Donaldson, who was HANDLING guys better than the ones on FIU defensive line while in high school at Tackle, suddenly isn't talented enough to do it anymore.
How are you at math and logic?
 
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You sound insane. False equivalence? I have it crystal clear. Our crap coaches have been bad at pretty much everything, including evaluations, recruiting and roster management. As a result, our talent has been less than delusional star whores believe.

Listen to what you're saying. You agree that coaching @ MIA has failed to properly develop & manage talent, but at the same time you're also arguing that talent they recruited & evaluated has been less than championship caliber. Well yeah..no ****. Thats to be expected because MIA is even squandering talent that is less than championship caliber. You think the HCs have been EQUALLY bad @ EVERYTHING? 18 NFL O-lineman proves to you that's clearly not the case.
 
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Yes, I'm putting all of this on the coaches. Hard for me to believe that Navaughn Donaldson, who was HANDLING guys better than the ones on FIU defensive line while in high school at Tackle, suddenly isn't talented enough to do it anymore.
If it is hard for you to believe a kid could eat himself out of a job, you’re not paying attention.

It’s never sll one thing or all another. These boards have been filled for 20 years with people who claimed it was all X. They were all surprised when Not X didn’t translste into improvement. So they evolved to blame Y. Wash, rinse, repeat.
 
"You are not a matador and I am not a bull, so quit with the irrelevant responses. "
That is funny, but doesn’t help the discussion. It’s absurd to claim our issues are only cosches and not talent. Bad coaches evaluate poorly, often enough. They also manage the roster poorly. These things go hand in hand.
 
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Listen to what you're saying. You agree that coaching @ MIA has failed to properly develop & mange talent, but at the same time you're also arguing that talent they recruited & evaluated has been less than championship caliber. Well yeah..no ****. Thats to be expected because MIA is even squandering talent that is less than championship caliber. You think the HCs have been EQUALLY bad @ EVERYTHING? 18 NFL O-lineman proves to you that's clearly not the case.
You’re lost in your underwear here. I have literally never said the’re equally bad at everything. That is you struggling to invent a straw man to argue over. Why bother debate which thing they suck more at? It’s an idiotic topic. It’s enough to say ‘both’ or ‘all of it.’

This discussion only arises because you and others cling to the emotional view that any admission that our talent is imperfect is somehow a defense of our coaches. It shouldn’t be seen that way. The job of coaches includes recruiting and evaluating and roster management, and as I have been telling folks on these boards for ages, we are doing it poorly.
 
We always have a couple stand out guys and three turnstiles to go along with it. Just give me 5 solid guys at any given time.
 
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this is a good re-read given OL performance and recruiting concerns after seeing the season.

The results are in on Enos and Barry and they tell the same old story.

Donaldson is the latest example. High School All-American. Freshman All-American. Now, unplayable. Another talent wasted.

Duke's OL provides a good comparison. They struggled, predictably, with two freshmen tackles. But they still finished almost thirty spots ahead of us in sack percentage. Barry and Enos make young players look even less experienced.

It's a similar story with our old, bad coach. North Carolina was 4th in sack percentage when Searels got there. Now, they're 110th. We have witnessed some of the worst OL coaching in America.

This discussion only arises because you and others cling to the emotional view that any admission that our talent is imperfect is somehow a defense of our coaches.

This is a strawman. Nobody thinks our talent is perfect. That's why there are almost a million posts on the Recruiting Board. Some of us even provide specific criticisms of OL recruiting with specific suggestions on players and philosophy.

This discussion arises because we believe, with reams of evidence in support, that Miami wastes more talent than any program in the country. That includes OL, as the NFL numbers and recruiting rankings show.
 
You’re moving the goalposts. It’s silly. I have never absolved our putrid coaches for their part in our putrid performance.

You say ‘the talent is there‘ ... it’s all coaching’

But our OL deficiencies are not just a function of coaching. As always, it’s both. Bad coaching, bad development, bad evals, mediocre recruiting, lack of depth, lack of experience, all of it.
I’ve been blaming everything on coaching the last few years. Or decade. But when you lose to FIU it’s time to consider that the players are also not good enough.

I know you’ve been saying this for a few years now, and as much as I hate to admit it....you’re right.
 
The results are in on Enos and Barry and they tell the same old story.

Donaldson is the latest example. High School All-American. Freshman All-American. Now, unplayable. Another talent wasted.

Duke's OL provides a good comparison. They struggled, predictably, with two freshmen tackles. But they still finished almost thirty spots ahead of us in sack percentage. Barry and Enos make young players look even less experienced.

It's a similar story with our old, bad coach. North Carolina was 4th in sack percentage when Searels got there. Now, they're 110th. We have witnessed some of the worst OL coaching in America.



This is a strawman. Nobody thinks our talent is perfect. That's why there are almost a million posts on the Recruiting Board. Some of us even provide specific criticisms of OL recruiting with specific suggestions on players and philosophy.

This discussion arises because we believe, with reams of evidence in support, that Miami wastes more talent than any program in the country. That includes OL, as the NFL numbers and recruiting rankings show.
If your point is our coaching stinks, great, no argument. Do we waste talent as well as anyone does? Surely! That’s what crap coaches do, and our coaches are crap. But this repetitive ‘hey guys we sent a kid to the nfl‘ mantra really should stop. It’s silly. Clemson has had good lines without sending kids to the nfl. Just maybe, there’s a flaw in your premise. Isn’t it at least worth you wondering about that? It’s not just a theoretical issue — if we don’t properly understand what is wrong, we will be less likely to fix it.

Maybe a good line requires more than a random talented kid, and part of our problem has been our overall unit talent, depth and experience is part of the issue. If a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, it’s easy to see why our OL have stunk. By that reasoning, saying we’ve had more talent by reference to a few nfl kids just misses the important question of what makes for an effective college OL unit.

Maybe the nfl is looking for different things in an OL from what we need in college, to have an effective line. Flowers was a first round pick. It surely wasnt based on his technique or decision-making at UM. It was based on his physical potential. But the NFL can bet that with time and effort as a pro, a kid can gain some things that he didn’t have in college. Based on that, maybe looking at NFL picks is a misleading way to judge what we need and should look for in OL.

What’s clear is our coaching has stunk, our lines have stunk, and for the few nfl kids you reference, we’ve also run some really bad pieces out there on our lines. My point is it’s all of it. Poor talent and depth because of bad evals and development and unbalanced recruiting, along with terrible coaching and schemes. Better coaching and schemes will surely help, but when Mahoney, gauthier and jahair jones are in our top 6, we have talent issues, full stop. When we roll with a 2* true frosh project (who had no other P5 offers) at LT in our opening game because there is no one else on our roster capable of playing the spot, we have a talent issue, full stop. We also had to play another true frosh who surely wasn’t recruited to be a true frosh starter in Clark. You may come back in a decade and say this line had talent because Nelson and Clark turned out to be NFL kids. That’s the problem. It’s a mistaken view of what talent means. Talent IMO means the right collection of kids to be an effective line right now, at UM. If another staff could get Clemson results from our kids, then we have a 100% coaching issue. I don’t think for a nanosecond that Clemson’s coaches would trade their OL kids for ours. So I don’t think it’s all coaching. It’s obviously both. All of the above.
 
Maybe a good line requires more than a random talented kid, and part of our problem has been our overall unit talent, depth and experience is part of the issue. If a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, it’s easy to see why our OL have stunk. By that reasoning, saying we’ve had more talent by reference to a few nfl kids just misses the important question of what makes for an effective college OL unit.

But even the NFL kids didn't play like that here. That is why I focus on development and scheme.

For example, we had five OL start games in the NFL this year. That's a huge number. But not a single one of those guys made All-ACC. If the NFL talents are underperforming, I suspect that is true across the board.

Clemson is not ignoring NFL prospects by choice. They are just getting the most out of what they have and covering up flaws with scheme. Now, with a track record of success, they are starting to sign the future NFL linemen.

First thing I do is fire Barry and let the new OC bring his own coach. Then, I develop a top-down OL recruiting strategy with several key principles:

1. Focus on the three uncoachable traits-- length, athleticism and toughness.

2. Communicate those physical traits to your low-level recruiting staff, and have them scour the country for guys with verified measurables and/or converts from other sports and positions. This needs to be an ongoing process due to late bloomers and converted guys.

3. Focus on South Florida and big cities. Stoutland's lines were heavy on local kids and big city recruits. Country kids are, by and large, a waste of resources. They don't like the culture. We need to be the expert on every big city's OL crop, including South Florida and Jacksonville.
 
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