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twes.305 said:
Not saying that our players are bad, but this draft shows the quality of players Golden was recruiting when it comes to the athletic side of the game. besides Sheldrick and MJ, all the other UM draft prospects had average or below average athletic numbers. Another indication on how Manny coaching has made some of our players look really good, not saying that they are bad or anything. But to keep it real, compared to top teams our players are not as athletic which is something we need to fix and are currently fixing, since we were known for having athletic guys back in the day.
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Truth.
 
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bobbydigius said:
When I see @Dwinstitles I see a true fan that just finally broke, but can you blame him? We are a middling program at this point. Sure we still have our history and built in recruiting advantage because of location but other than that we have fallen mightily. The problem is that a good part of the fan base refuses to acknowledge that harsh truth. I mean, this board was trying to convince itself that Richt was a top 5 coach when we first hired him. Bottom line as it pertains to this thread, we absolutely over rate our own players. Let’s revisit prior to the season. Joe Jack was gonna possibly be a 1st rounder, as well as Mike Jack. Then after the season Willis, Joe and Mike were all 2-3 round talents. Homer and JJ 3-4. **** there were posts in August citing PFF that St Louis was one of the bets Tackles in the ACC. We over rate our players, all fans do that.
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This is absolutley spot on......and your right man i finally broke. Its like i had the shades over my eyes the whole time for them to finally lift it and i see the truth now. I bytch and moan cause Im upset but like I tell my boys I already made peace with Miami never being elite again. Im convinced that theres no way the old UM will ever rise again. Sure we have our advantages but we cant take advantage of them in this era.
 
Wait...are you saying that we do NOT have the talent to win the conference and the playoffs? I thought we were only losing due to play calling and play schemes! Stars matter?!
 
twes.305 said:
Not saying that our players are bad, but this draft shows the quality of players Golden was recruiting when it comes to the athletic side of the game. besides Sheldrick and MJ, all the other UM draft prospects had average or below average athletic numbers. Another indication on how Manny coaching has made some of our players look really good, not saying that they are bad or anything. But to keep it real, compared to top teams our players are not as athletic which is something we need to fix and are currently fixing, since we were known for having athletic guys back in the day.
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Travis homer should be included with redwine/jackson numbers. He had an elite workout at the combine
 
Rellyrell said:
This is actually a solid thread; great talking points, arguments w/o personal attacks.

If we’re going to be honest, I’m not aware of any fan base that doesn’t overvalue their players. We pay attention to Miami football, and sometimes we’re blinded by our love for The U.

I try to be as objective as possible, but even I, during the season, can find myself overvaluing our players. However, as I mentioned in “The Combine” thread regarding Redwine, I said he just made himself some $, and put himself in position to be drafted in the 3rd round. He played well during games, in particular his Sr season, and he put up great athletic numbers during the combine. That caused GMs to re-watch his tape. He didn’t go 3rd, but it’s no surprise that he was the 1st Cane to go off the boards.

JJ, on the other hand, tested poorly as an athlete at his stature. What caused him to even get drafted was what he did on the field, as a leader. If he was 6’1 220 w/ those testing #’s, he would’ve went before Redwine, but he’s 5’10 191 and tested below avg for his size.

Mike Jack had good size, length, speed, but his production slipped a little from Jr to Sr year. What scouts saw was a good player who’s great in press coverage, but not that great in off man and zone. That’s y he fell, but as many sites have stated, The Boys got a steal there.

Joe Jack proved to be too stiff, with one, effective, move. His combine #’s weren’t great, and he didn’t show a lot of bend. When he bulked, he lost that first step that he had as a freshman that made him so special.

Homer had some great games, and some not so memorable games against a pretty weak schedule. He’s a 100% effort guy w athleticism, but his lack of vision, fumble problems, and his inability to find cut back lanes dropped his stock despite testing well as an athlete.

Gerald sitting out a yr, despite being eligible, not participating in the bowl game, Sr Bowl, and Combine, along w not being prepared for interviews (allegedly), was his undoing.


I think our problem is we’ve had way too many under the radar, to good football players, but not enough difference makers. The problem is we haven’t had that staff that can rightly identify these under the radar guys who were grossly undervalued by recruiting services. That’s how we end up w The Knowles of the world, Tyreic Martins, Dykstras, Mike Smiths, Tre Johnsons, etc.

Our good players are just that, good; but we have far in between elite players (1st - 2nd round projected guys). We have a football team good enough to win the ACC Coastal, but that’s about it....so when we go 7-6, the questions become what’s wrong with this team? Is it just coaching? Is it player development? Is it the players will/want/love for the game?

I think it’s a combination of it all, and that’s our problem. For all of the hate Butch received, the fact is, he created dogs, to the point that when Coker took over, the players pretty much coached themselves. As Butch guys left, the cracks showed and now we’re fully buck naked. If Manny can remove all the aforementioned question marks that’s been plaguing this program, we’ll begin to see more love during the draft.
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BBB da God
 
84312
Here's what Butchs evaluations got you....
 
brock said:
Joe Jackson was a great college player
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I love Joe Jax, but I must have missed the part where he was a great college player. He was a good college player, but IMO never achieved being "great" which it always seemed he was capable of. The guy is built like a gladiator and I thought he was going to absolutely dominate last year. Not only did he not dominate, he downright disappeared at times. I'm not that surprised to see him fall, as I personally don't feel his performance at Miami ever matched what seemed like otherworldly potential.
 
For_The_U said:
I love Joe Jax, but I must have missed the part where he was a great college player. He was a good college player, but IMO never achieved being "great" which it always seemed he was capable of. The guy is built like a gladiator and I thought he was going to absolutely dominate last year. Not only did he not dominate, he downright disappeared at times. I'm not that surprised to see him fall, as I personally don't feel his performance at Miami ever matched what seemed like otherworldly potential.
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He’s one of 7 defensive ends with at least 24 sacks last year in all of college football... 36 tfls in 3 years. 4th all time in sacks at Miami...
 
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brock said:
Travis homer should be included with redwine/jackson numbers. He had an elite workout at the combine
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Tough as nails. Will find a roster if for nothing other than special teams. Undersized to be an every down back. Some ball security issues. He ended up about right in the draft. He should have stayed under year especially under this offense.
 
brock said:
He’s one of 7 defensive ends with at least 24 sacks last year in all of college football... 36 tfls in 3 years. 4th all time in sacks at Miami...
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Fair enough. Didn't realize his numbers were that strong. I still stand behind my statement that rather than dominating this past season like I 100% expected he would, he downright disappeared for stretches. Several stretches.
 
For_The_U said:
I love Joe Jax, but I must have missed the part where he was a great college player. He was a good college player, but IMO never achieved being "great" which it always seemed he was capable of. The guy is built like a gladiator and I thought he was going to absolutely dominate last year. Not only did he not dominate, he downright disappeared at times. I'm not that surprised to see him fall, as I personally don't feel his performance at Miami ever matched what seemed like otherworldly potential.
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He pretty much played hurt all last year
 
Pentagon Cane said:
Tough as nails. Will find a roster if for nothing other than special teams. Undersized to be an every down back. Some ball security issues. He ended up about right in the draft. He should have stayed under year especially under this offense.
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I disagree. I think he's better off busting his *** to earn some PT this year on a team like Seattle than returning to Coral Gables and battling Cam'Ron, Lo and Deejay for touches.
 
RedSquare said:
Bingo!
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lol, tell a kid to play for free when he has a chance to make a living? no thanks. pay the kids or foh w crying about kids leaving early. guarantee you that none of the early entrants give a bleep that they left early once that first check comes in. they're going to leave, but its up to the school to raise their stock in the THREE years they have him.
 
Firesite said:
Most of our players get too there second contract and make a ton of money. They may get drafted in the last few rounds but they are not bust like UF players.
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How do you know this? And how do you know how our "most" compares to the top programs we are chasing?
 
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The Willis thing is the one real shocker. It wasn't just Miami fans predicting a day 2 draft slot. Almost every major prognosticator had him going in the first 3 to 4 rounds. Everyone else kind of ended up where I thought they would have.
 
brock said:
He’s one of 7 defensive ends with at least 24 sacks last year in all of college football... 36 tfls in 3 years. 4th all time in sacks at Miami...
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Joe Jackson was a good player, but he definitely wasn't a GREAT player. He was never more than all-conference honorable mention. He never finished in the top 5 in his conference in TFLs or sacks. His PFF grades were of a good, not great player. He didn't test all that well. He was 215th in the composite coming out of HS. There is literally nothing in his history that suggests he is a "great" player, other than our subjective, heavily-biased "eye test". Every data point, from different sources and in different moments in time, suggest he is just a "good" player.

It's been so long since we had a truly great player that we've forgotten what one looks like. For example, in 5 more career games than Jackson, Bradley Chubb had 19 more TFLs. Bradley Chubb was 1st team everything, a top 5 pick, and had 12 sacks as a rookie in the NFL. Bradley Chubb was a great player.

We can come up with a bunch of rationalizations - scheme, playing time, yada yada - but great players overcome all of that. Remember Ed Reed and Sean Taylor with double digit picks? McGahee with 25+ TDs in a single season? KW2 being completely unstoppable vs OSU? Andre Johnson taking over vs Nebraska? We just don't have players like that anymore.
 
In all of this, I still wonder how Gary was a 1st round pick. He didn't test well, he didn't produce, and he was in one of the best defenses in the country. SMH
 
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