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  • Thread starter Thread starter Taverndrunk99
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Cane Velazquez said:
Both can be true.

Fans are lazy and uninformed so blaming coaches is easy.

But the recruiting hasn't been good enough in the trenches.
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I don't disagree but, to be honest, short of a few coaches, alot of the blame lies on them.
We've had more poor coaches than competent to stellar ones.
 
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The problem is a combination of a lot of things. Just getting training tables under golden. Just got a nutritionist when richt was hired. Having a s&c coach who wasn't even certified and then having a 600 pound guy running things. Feeley seems to be a good hire as i have seen people outside the program vouch for him.

Then you have recruiting. The biggest difference i have seen between miami and the elite programs is size and strength in the trenches, qb play, and overall team athleticism.


As i look to this season and heading to 2020 i see these things changing. If they can take care of buisiness on the field and trail this year the 2020 roster will be the best, deepest, and most athletic in a long time.
 
Canesq said:
Exactly. That never happens.

Jeff Thomas is going first overall next year and he would still be the steal of the draft.
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This entire time as I'm reading the overating our own guys theory I was thinking You mean exactly like I see now on a daily basis about Jeff Thomas? If you never watched him and just read boards, particularly the same 5-10 unrealistic sunshine pumpers that comment on every single 247 story, you would think he was Jerry ******* Rice.
 
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Edward20 said:
This entire time as I'm reading the overating our own guys theory I was thinking You mean exactly like I see now on a daily basis about Jeff Thomas? If you never watched him and just read boards, particularly the same 5-10 unrealistic sunshine pumpers that comment on every single 247 story, you would think he was Jerry ******* Rice.
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Agreed. I remember before the LSU game reading posts that Shaq was a 2nd round pick at worst.
 
bobbydigius said:
When I see @Dwinstitles I see a true fan that just finally broke, but can you blame him? We are a middling program at this point. Sure we still have our history and built in recruiting advantage because of location but other than that we have fallen mightily. The problem is that a good part of the fan base refuses to acknowledge that harsh truth. I mean, this board was trying to convince itself that Richt was a top 5 coach when we first hired him. Bottom line as it pertains to this thread, we absolutely over rate our own players. Let’s revisit prior to the season. Joe Jack was gonna possibly be a 1st rounder, as well as Mike Jack. Then after the season Willis, Joe and Mike were all 2-3 round talents. Homer and JJ 3-4. **** there were posts in August citing PFF that St Louis was one of the bets Tackles in the ACC. We over rate our players, all fans do that.
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Facts man Im broke, I dont believe any positive news anymore. I feel like its all tricks
 
AustinCane6688 said:
Sick and tired of your schtick. No one overvalued anyone. Homer got picked in the top 110 players after 1 full year as a starter. Redwine went from a lightly recruited CB to a Top 4 round safety. Mike Jackson was left for dead 2 years ago by our fanbase and turned into a mid-round draft pick. Will love JJ forever but no one with half a brain thought he was going in the first two days of the draft given his size and testing numbers. Joe Jax left early but that was on him. Would have loved to have seen his stock rise with another year of seasoning. The Willis debacle is one of, if not the biggest draft mysteries of the past few years but don't put that on the fanbase overvaluing him. Every draft outlet had him going in the first 3 rounds.
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I hear what your saying and your partially right but that doesnt mean there isnt better players then those guys
 
BoxingRobes said:
A few addendums:

Many in our fanbase completely ignore the athletic testing our players perform during the pre-draft process. Its not as if some of these players are average or even below average players...they are going to be in the bottom 10% of all NFL athletes. This stuff matters. More and more teams are using advanced analytics, metrics, etc. for on field performance and also use the same data driven evaluations to help get outliers off of their board. Guys like Joe Jackson, Gerald Willis, and Jaquan Johnson were not even on a majority of team's draft board most likely because they failed to make qualifying scores during the process. Redwine and Mike Jackson were the first two 'Canes off the board...they were also the highest athletic testing performers from our class.

Many on this forum got it twisted...they think its a conspiracy against Miami players...when, I think most NFL teams give Miami players the benefit of the doubt in their projection to the NFL. Its why we still have so many players in the NFL despite being a pretty mediocre team for basically, 15 years.

One more...we as fans ignore aspects of these players that we consciously know are problematic. Our bewilderment with Gerald Willis is a prime example of this. We know his background and character are problematic for even the most kind of evaluators. We saw how poor his athletic testing was. We constantly complained about how soft our front seven can be. But, we loved the splash plays he made and the fact that he has a U on his helmet says we think he's going to be drafted high. If Gerald Willis played for another other team, knowing what we know about him...no one would support him as a draft pick. He just played for us, so we ignore all of the legitimately concerning aspects of his prospect profile.
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Solid, solid post
 
This is actually a solid thread; great talking points, arguments w/o personal attacks.

If we’re going to be honest, I’m not aware of any fan base that doesn’t overvalue their players. We pay attention to Miami football, and sometimes we’re blinded by our love for The U.

I try to be as objective as possible, but even I, during the season, can find myself overvaluing our players. However, as I mentioned in “The Combine” thread regarding Redwine, I said he just made himself some $, and put himself in position to be drafted in the 3rd round. He played well during games, in particular his Sr season, and he put up great athletic numbers during the combine. That caused GMs to re-watch his tape. He didn’t go 3rd, but it’s no surprise that he was the 1st Cane to go off the boards.

JJ, on the other hand, tested poorly as an athlete at his stature. What caused him to even get drafted was what he did on the field, as a leader. If he was 6’1 220 w/ those testing #’s, he would’ve went before Redwine, but he’s 5’10 191 and tested below avg for his size.

Mike Jack had good size, length, speed, but his production slipped a little from Jr to Sr year. What scouts saw was a good player who’s great in press coverage, but not that great in off man and zone. That’s y he fell, but as many sites have stated, The Boys got a steal there.

Joe Jack proved to be too stiff, with one, effective, move. His combine #’s weren’t great, and he didn’t show a lot of bend. When he bulked, he lost that first step that he had as a freshman that made him so special.

Homer had some great games, and some not so memorable games against a pretty weak schedule. He’s a 100% effort guy w athleticism, but his lack of vision, fumble problems, and his inability to find cut back lanes dropped his stock despite testing well as an athlete.

Gerald sitting out a yr, despite being eligible, not participating in the bowl game, Sr Bowl, and Combine, along w not being prepared for interviews (allegedly), was his undoing.


I think our problem is we’ve had way too many under the radar, to good football players, but not enough difference makers. The problem is we haven’t had that staff that can rightly identify these under the radar guys who were grossly undervalued by recruiting services. That’s how we end up w The Knowles of the world, Tyreic Martins, Dykstras, Mike Smiths, Tre Johnsons, etc.

Our good players are just that, good; but we have far in between elite players (1st - 2nd round projected guys). We have a football team good enough to win the ACC Coastal, but that’s about it....so when we go 7-6, the questions become what’s wrong with this team? Is it just coaching? Is it player development? Is it the players will/want/love for the game?

I think it’s a combination of it all, and that’s our problem. For all of the hate Butch received, the fact is, he created dogs, to the point that when Coker took over, the players pretty much coached themselves. As Butch guys left, the cracks showed and now we’re fully buck naked. If Manny can remove all the aforementioned question marks that’s been plaguing this program, we’ll begin to see more love during the draft.
 
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Not saying that our players are bad, but this draft shows the quality of players Golden was recruiting when it comes to the athletic side of the game. besides Sheldrick and MJ, all the other UM draft prospects had average or below average athletic numbers. Another indication on how Manny coaching has made some of our players look really good, not saying that they are bad or anything. But to keep it real, compared to top teams our players are not as athletic which is something we need to fix and are currently fixing, since we were known for having athletic guys back in the day.
 
Agreed. I'll bet had these guys stayed, that our DL would've been compared to Clemson's DL. favorably this year and next. There's nothing like continuity and experience.

Clemson UM
Lawrence Jr. 38 games McIntosh Jr. 29 games
Ferrell RS Jr. 44 games Norton Jr. 34 games
Bryant Sr. 45 games Jackson Jr. 35 games
Wilkins Sr. 55 games

Captain Uberpants said:
Garvin needs to learn from JJ and Norton/McIntosh
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