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Gore Update

Ethnicsands said:
love the discussion. foreman would be high on my offense list. otis was a better curtis martin in his era but don’t know if the veterans committee has much rationale. don’t see waters either. craig yes, on impact.

on d, imo woodson and lynch are no brainers. lake imo is a good bit below them on all pro and other metrics.
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I agree w/ u. The reason I put Ricky in there is b/c he only played 10 seasons, but has close to 15k all purpose yards & 91 Tubs. Half his career was in the PB, and he’s a SB champ. But again, he wasn’t a media friendly guy, & I know they knock players on that.

Foreman is a huge head scratcher. 8 yr career, OROY, 5x pro bowler, revolutionary RB as he introduced spinning to break tackles as opposed to juking, 4x All Pro, and led the league in receptions as a RB! I mean, that’s HOF credentials compared to some of these other bums already in Canton.

Roger Craig became Chuck Foreman on steroids. Not only was he an integral member of SF’s dynasties, forget the pro bowls; he revolutionized how RBs were viewed. He was the APB! The guy was the epitome of the Swiss Army Knife out of the backfield!

I also forgot to add Lorenzo Neal & Mike Alstott. Lorenzo Neal may be the greatest blocking FB in NFL history. Set a record for 8 str8 1,000 yard rushers behind him. Mike Alstott was arguably the best running FB in NFL history (No disrespect to Larry Z). 11 yr career, 6 pro bowls, 4x all pro, SB winner?? I mean, come on. FBs get zero respect by Canton.

D Wood & J Lynch should’ve been in. Not 1st ballot, but definitely by the 3rd. I threw in Carnell b/c ppl forget how devastating of a Safety he was. He was a true SS. He was on the all decades team for a reason, so I’m not sure why his name don’t get talked about much. Maybe b/c of Woodson, Greene, and Lloyd always overshadowed him during the Blitzburgh yrs.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Man Walter Payton man. People forget how good he was. Set the mark at rushing, receiving from backfield, best blocking HB you’ll see, and literally was backup punter and third string QB, and actually played those positions in spots. And did it all on a team that was terrible for most of his career. Best all around FB player ever and it ain’t close.

/cool story bro
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Facts; and ppl truly forget how chitty those Bears teams were on O. Ppl always talk ‘85 Bears w/o realizing he played w/ an one eyed QB, and a WR who was a track star w/ inconsistent hands. He didn’t have PBs surrounding him like that.

Dude was 5’10 & played the game like he was 6’4. His endurance, leaping ability, the high step....whatever u needed from him as a player, he gave it to u. And this dude Ditka didn’t reward him w/ a TD in the SB. Guy bled Chicago; never was a hold out, didn’t ask for anything, not even to be traded, and u don’t give him the rock to score? After he endured 10 yrs of trash??

Epitome of a football player; just wish he got that opportunity to score.
 
Ethnicsands said:
i’m not really qualified to evaluate OL, except by the grandma test. i always viewed faneca like curtis martin. hall of pretty dang good for a long while?
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Rating players for the Hall really has nothing to do with evaluating the position. I know you know, its just comparing players v. their peers. I think OL is probably the easiest to debate or evaluate for the Hall as there are no historical numbers to really debate. Pro Bowls, All-Pros, All-Decade spot. Tells you everything you need to know about how they were viewed against their peers.

So, who has gotten in from Faneca's generation...Steve Hutchinson. Faneca has him beat across the board for Pro Bowls and All-Pro teams. Both were All-Decade, and Faneca is the only one from the 2000s All-Decade offense not to be in the Hall (Tom Brady isn't yet, because he's still playing). Larry Allen and Will Roaf...behind him in All-Decade made it (subjectively, I feel Larry Allen is better, but we're splitting hairs here ultimately, and Allen is more of a 90s guy, IMO). I think he's got a clear cut case.

If I am just using my unqualified OL evaluators glasses and judge HoF by just that...I'd say Tony Boselli should be a Hall of Famer. From the playoff game against Bruce Smith all of the way through 1999, I don't think there has even been a stretch of offensive tackle player than that era of Tony Boselli. He was incredible. But the reality is, he shouldn't be a Hall of Famer. Didn't sustain that greatness long enough. Same reason we'd agree on Terrell Davis. Another guy we'd agree on is Curtis Martin...and I actually really liked him as a player. I thought he was great. Loved his style. Was just a first down machine. But the reality is...he was never really GREAT, Top 2, 3 at his position...as you said, he always seemed to be really good, just not great...but accumulated stats over his career that make him one of the most prolific. He's the Isaac Bruce of RBs.
 
Rellyrell said:
I agree w/ u. The reason I put Ricky in there is b/c he only played 10 seasons, but has close to 15k all purpose yards & 91 Tubs. Half his career was in the PB, and he’s a SB champ. But again, he wasn’t a media friendly guy, & I know they knock players on that.

Foreman is a huge head scratcher. 8 yr career, OROY, 5x pro bowler, revolutionary RB as he introduced spinning to break tackles as opposed to juking, 4x All Pro, and led the league in receptions as a RB! I mean, that’s HOF credentials compared to some of these other bums already in Canton.

Roger Craig became Chuck Foreman on steroids. Not only was he an integral member of SF’s dynasties, forget the pro bowls; he revolutionized how RBs were viewed. He was the APB! The guy was the epitome of the Swiss Army Knife out of the backfield!

I also forgot to add Lorenzo Neal & Mike Alstott. Lorenzo Neal may be the greatest blocking FB in NFL history. Set a record for 8 str8 1,000 yard rushers behind him. Mike Alstott was arguably the best running FB in NFL history (No disrespect to Larry Z). 11 yr career, 6 pro bowls, 4x all pro, SB winner?? I mean, come on. FBs get zero respect by Canton.

D Wood & J Lynch should’ve been in. Not 1st ballot, but definitely by the 3rd. I threw in Carnell b/c ppl forget how devastating of a Safety he was. He was a true SS. He was on the all decades team for a reason, so I’m not sure why his name don’t get talked about much. Maybe b/c of Woodson, Greene, and Lloyd always overshadowed him during the Blitzburgh yrs.
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Thoughts on Ricky Watters?

His main knock was his terrible attitude. As much as I hate the Domers, the guy was pretty good in the NFL.
 
Another player that I feel is pretty underrated in a Hall of Fame discussion...Hines Ward. I know his numbers aren't quite there for pretty much everything...but he's a sum of the total parts guy, and I think did things not on the stat sheet that made him far more respected amongst his peers than the raw stats would among the media at the time. One of, if not the leagues best blockers at the WR position and was dirty as fvck. When the ball wasn't coming his way, he was like playing safety on offense. Underrated at the time as a WR1, too. He was that guy under multiple QBs (not just Ben) and made a good wide receiver opposite him even better.
 
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TerragonSix said:
Thoughts on Ricky Watters?

His main knock was his terrible attitude. As much as I hate the Domers, the guy was pretty good in the NFL.
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Bingo; he’s not in b/c of his attitude. That’s b.s to me. Judge a player off what he did on the field; not b/c he isn’t your butt buddy. Smh
 
Rellyrell said:
Bingo; he’s not in b/c of his attitude. That’s b.s to me. Judge a player off what he did on the field; not b/c he isn’t your butt buddy. Smh
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If they let ******' TO in (who had an ego the size of Texas and habitually buried his teammates), then Ricky Watters should get in. Yes, TO was a way better player than Watters, but if the attitude thing is the only thing keeping Watters from getting in, then TO broke that barrier.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of sportswriters deciding who gets to go in and who doesn't. HOF coaches and HOF players should have more of a say than they do now. What if Tom Brady turned out to be the biggest A-hole in the world, consistently in trouble with the law? You're not going to let him in because he didn't suck a sportswriters ****? GTFOH.

Here's an interesting question; if Antonio Brown doesn't play another down of football, does he get in? Does all the off-the-field issues and shortened career keep him out? I was of the opinion if he played 2-3 more years solidly, he was a solid 1st ballot.
 
TerragonSix said:
If they let ******' TO in (who had an ego the size of Texas and habitually buried his teammates), then Ricky Watters should get in. Yes, TO was a way better player than Watters, but if the attitude thing is the only thing keeping Watters from getting in, then TO broke that barrier.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of sportswriters deciding who gets to go in and who doesn't. HOF coaches and HOF players should have more of a say than they do now. What if Tom Brady turned out to be the biggest A-hole in the world, consistently in trouble with the law? You're not going to let him in because he didn't suck a sportswriters ****? GTFOH.

Here's an interesting question; if Antonio Brown doesn't play another down of football, does he get in? Does all the off-the-field issues and shortened career keep him out? I was of the opinion if he played 2-3 more years solidly, he was a solid 1st ballot.
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AB was the best WR for a 5 yr stretch. 7x pro bowler, 5x all pro, and an all decades team member.

To me; once u hit all decades, u gotta be considered for the hall. That means u were one of the best players for a decade. But w/ his off the field problems, I’m not sure he gets the call, which is really sad.
 
Rellyrell said:
Exactly; when I brought up Portis & how he got snubbed out some hardware his rookie yr, ppl said it’s b/c he played in a RB friendly running scheme....and they said literally every RB had a good season or two in Denver as a RB. My next argument was just what u said; then why is Davis in the HOF?
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SF have recreated it a bit, without the blatant chop blocks.

I used to hate playing Denver back in the day - the line of scrimmage looked like a war movie.
 
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