Golden Wins Out and I will eat Crow

[dk72]

This thread is hilarious. No matter what happens against FSU next week, Golden will be the HC next year unless he leaves on his own. He is really starting to build something here, so I doubt highly he leaves.

These people have no concept of what "building something" looks like in college football.

They'd have fired Jim Harbaugh after going 8-5 with a RS Freshman Andrew Luck; they'd have fired Jimbo Fisher when he dropped three in a row in 2011 after being a preseason top 5; and they DEFINITELY would have fired Butch Davis after losing 66-13 to Syracuse in his fourth year with Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Dan Morgan, Ed Reed, Al Blades, etc.

Exactly. If some of these people were in charge of firing and hiring we'd have a coaching carousel with changes every 2 years because we didn't win a championship. Bottom line is the program was close to dying, and you don't come back from that overnight. Those comparing the timing to Shannon are delusional, as Shannon inherited a team not far removed from a national championship, and with no NCAA issues and only a short period of mediocrity. Golden inherited a program that was in the middle of a complete **** storm and that MANY in the national and local sports media were questioning whether it would even exist as a major program in the next few years.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

This thread is hilarious. No matter what happens against FSU next week, Golden will be the HC next year unless he leaves on his own. He is really starting to build something here, so I doubt highly he leaves.

These people have no concept of what "building something" looks like in college football.

They'd have fired Jim Harbaugh after going 8-5 with a RS Freshman Andrew Luck; they'd have fired Jimbo Fisher when he dropped three in a row in 2011 after being a preseason top 5; and they DEFINITELY would have fired Butch Davis after losing 66-13 to Syracuse in his fourth year with Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Dan Morgan, Ed Reed, Al Blades, etc.

Exactly. If some of these people were in charge of firing and hiring we'd have a coaching carousel with changes every 2 years because we didn't win a championship. Bottom line is the program was close to dying, and you don't come back from that overnight. Those comparing the timing to Shannon are delusional, as Shannon inherited a team not far removed from a national championship, and with no NCAA issues and only a short period of mediocrity. Golden inherited a program that was in the middle of a complete **** storm and that MANY in the national and local sports media were questioning whether it would even exist as a major program in the next few years.

We've outrecruited every team we've lost to over the past two years. The "sanctions" handed down by NCAA are nothing, especially compared to what Butch endured. So, tell us why Golden has been unsuccessful the past two years?

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

Nothing I can't deal with less than the "results are results are results" perspectives.

If you can't put results into perspective, you're going to consistently find yourself wading through the bull**** created by the manipulation of often irrelevant numbers. In any case, Golden has not been successful on any objective measure, yet, other than off-the-field handling of the NCAA mess. If we're talking about on-the-field success, his teams have made less talented look superior and have outright lost to virtually any team with equal or superior talent.

The measure of a good coach, in my estimation, is to do a little more with less. To put pieces together and get more than what would be expected of the individual parts. Up to this point, that has not yet been shown. Like I've said throughout, it's not personal to Golden for me. I'd accept sustainable results (with proper context) from virtually anyone. It'd make it easier to get us back to winning meaningful games.

LU, what are your thoughts on Golden saying we didn't play with the lead w/r/t how our defense performed against GaTech? Considering that not only did we play with the lead, but did so twice.

 

[Consigliere]

This thread is hilarious. No matter what happens against FSU next week, Golden will be the HC next year unless he leaves on his own. He is really starting to build something here, so I doubt highly he leaves.

These people have no concept of what "building something" looks like in college football.

They'd have fired Jim Harbaugh after going 8-5 with a RS Freshman Andrew Luck; they'd have fired Jimbo Fisher when he dropped three in a row in 2011 after being a preseason top 5; and they DEFINITELY would have fired Butch Davis after losing 66-13 to Syracuse in his fourth year with Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Dan Morgan, Ed Reed, Al Blades, etc.

Let's go to the video tape and watch the stupidity unfold.

Part 1: Actual Improvement

Here is Harbaugh at Stanford. In terms of improvement:

2007: 3-6
2008: 4-5
2009: 6-3
2010: 8-1 (BCS Win Orange Bowl)

What you will notice is improvement in the division every season. Golden hit is peak in year 2 and unless he wins out, will remain a 5-3 team in the division.

NO IMPROVEMENT SINCE 2012 FOR GOLDEN

Part 2: Inheritance

I don't think people realize how bad Stanford was before Harbaugh. The year before Harbaugh arrived, Stanford was 1-11 (1-8). That is pretty darn bad. Between 2002-2006, Stanford went 16-40 (10-31). This was no picnic, every season was a losing season. This was a dead program. Their last bowl appearance was 2001.

Harbaugh not only improved every season, he inherited a bigger chit storm. Thus when he was actually improving and given the severity of the program before his tenure, he was allowed proper time.

Part 3: DOING MORE WITH LESS

Stanford doesn't recruit well. They never were going to out talent the big boys (Oregon and USC). Still Harbuagh constantly won games against better teams. Golden's best win came against an 8-5 GT team in 2011.

Here is the 9+ Win Game Club For Harbaugh

2007 #2 USC [11-2(7-2)]
2008 #19 Oregon State [9-4(7-2)]
2009 #7 Oregon [10-3 (8-1)]
2009 #11 USC [9-4 (5-4)]

These are the first 3 years. Harbaugh was able to do more with less. He was able to beat good teams and beat them with less.

Now that we realize there is no comparison for Golden and Harbaugh, let's stop saying it and announce this a dead point

Part 4: Butch v. Golden

I was already sure this argument was dead as the situations were nothing alike. Here is an old post on the comparison.

As for the retarded comparison to Butch Davis.

- Butch was down 31 ships
- Butch was a first time HC
- Butch won his first bowl game, Al never won any (already lost his first one at Miami)
- Butch was 17-6 after two seasons at Miami. Al Golden 13-12.
- Butch was 31-15 after four seasons at Miami. Al Golden is 28-18 (at this point).
- Butch finished 51-20 at Miami. For Golden, to match that he can only lose 2 games over the next 25.

Al Golden's best win at Miami was against an 8-5 GT team in 2011.
Butch Davis beat the following teams (9 or more wins) [This is through 46 games or the same point at Miami]

#22 Syracuse (9-3) in 95
#16 Syracuse (9-3) in 96
#3 UCLA (10-2) in 98

Butch Davis had issues but for being a FIRST TIME HC and dealing with REAL SANCTIONS...Al isn't close.

 

[canefan#1]

Here is a record Al will break,head coach at Miami the longest. Not a **** thing anyone of you legends in your own mind can do.

 

[OrangetieFatface]

Here is a record Al will break,head coach at Miami the longest. Not a **** thing anyone of you legends in your own mind can do.

I hope you're right. Nobody wants 4 more years of growing pains. Let's see the results on the field, because so far 28-18 is very average. 15 years from now if he stays on track and his overall record is 100-80 than there's really no spin of objectivity that can overcome actual statistical mediocrity.

 

[CBurrr93]

How can you people say that Al Golden deserves anything? We sat back and ALLOWED Nebraska to run time after timr. Time after time. Just sat there and took it. No coach worth his salt allows that to happen

 

[datcaneguy]

Losing to Nebraska and GT after failing to adjust on defense and getting beat down by Louisville in the same fashion less than 9 months earlier is enough for me to say it doesn't matter if he wins out he still not a good coach. Good coaches do not take 3 and a half years to address the problems on defense.

 

[LuCane]

Nothing I can't deal with less than the "results are results are results" perspectives.

If you can't put results into perspective, you're going to consistently find yourself wading through the bull**** created by the manipulation of often irrelevant numbers. In any case, Golden has not been successful on any objective measure, yet, other than off-the-field handling of the NCAA mess. If we're talking about on-the-field success, his teams have made less talented look superior and have outright lost to virtually any team with equal or superior talent.

The measure of a good coach, in my estimation, is to do a little more with less. To put pieces together and get more than what would be expected of the individual parts. Up to this point, that has not yet been shown. Like I've said throughout, it's not personal to Golden for me. I'd accept sustainable results (with proper context) from virtually anyone. It'd make it easier to get us back to winning meaningful games.

LU, what are your thoughts on Golden saying we didn't play with the lead w/r/t how our defense performed against GaTech? Considering that not only did we play with the lead, but did so twice.

In a post on another thread, I outlined how Miami didn't really control or blow out GaTech in 2013. Instead, they were in a back and forth game until we fell into an INT. At that point, with more of a commanding lead, GaTech completely unraveled. If that's Coach Golden's expectation, he should have probably done more to get up into a commanding lead quickly. Instead, I suppose he was waiting for it to happen by the grace of God. Problem is that a team is unlikely to make a mistake when you're conceding 5-6 yards per play on one of the safest plays in football.

It's a poor excuse and not a substantive explanation for why we aligned the way we did. Bluntly, what I know has happened since, internally, in terms of changes, speaks more to how he really feels about that game and what we were conceding. It's a shame it takes that type of egregious result to spark a meaningful adjustment.

 

[Consigliere]

No improvement since 2012? LMAO.

That 2012 team got blown out several times and was playing in nail-biters every week against even the weak teams on their schedule. You can cherry pick stats all day. Nobody on here is going to buy the argument that there hasn't been improvement since 2012.

Butch Davis inherited a team that played for a national championship and a program that had won 4 in the previous dozen years. Nobody is going to argue his sanctions weren't difficult, but Al Golden inherited a BAD TEAM that had been BAD for a long time and had more coaches fired (2) than ACC Coastal titles (0) since joining the conference. Then he was slapped with the NCAA situation!

What the NCAA did to us from 2011 to 2013 was unprecedented. Two and a half years of the media discussing the death penalty for our program while we tried to recruit and turn a **** team into a team with Miami talent and the team has improved every year to the point where we're blasting mediocre teams for the first time in years and we expect to be competitive against the most talented team in the country... oh and we also have a freshman quarterback that is the envy of the nation.

Correct. No improvement since 2012

2011: 3-5
2012: 5-3
2013: 5-3
2014: 3-2 (So Far)

So we improved in 2012 and we haven't since then in the conference. This is a fact. This isn't debatable. You win or you lose. We continue to lose without improving in the conference. These aren't cherry picked stats, these are the actual results. You win or you lose.

As for your fictional argument. Here is the average points per loss in the ACC play (i.e. how many points we lost by):

2011: 5.8 PPL
2012: 6.0 PPL
2013: 21.0 PPL (each was double digits)

So yes, each year we're losing in conference by more points each game so we're improving at losing. Congrats!

I'm not saying that Al Golden inherited a good team. I know he didn't inherit a good team. But But But our team still has more talent to beat VT and Duke last year. Our team was favored in both of those games. Instead we allowed 90 points combined to teams that we should have beat. Our team chit the bed in both of those games.

Then there is all the other stuff:

1. Zero coastal titles,

2. Zero wins against FSU, and

3. 3 losses already this year.

I don't see anything that anyone can be proud of with AL. I see a coach who is underachieving and hitting his ceiling (5-3) in th conference. If Al goes on to win out this year, beat FSU, he can actual have an argument that we're improving because we went 6-2 in the conference (i.e. ACTUAL IMPROVEMENT).

In general stop comparing Al to Butch or Harbaugh. Both are terrible and inaccurate. As for the cloud, it ran it's course. It had no impact on 2013 VT and Duke games. We lost those games because we chit the bed. It had nothing to do with the "cloud".

So keep defending your boy. That is your right. But cut the chit with these false comparisons.

 

[OrangetieFatface]

Stanford doesn't recruit well. They never were going to out talent the big boys (Oregon and USC). Still Harbuagh constantly won games against better teams. Golden's best win came against an 8-5 GT team in 2011.

Here is the 9+ Win Game Club For Harbaugh

2007 #2 USC [11-2(7-2)]
2008 #19 Oregon State [9-4(7-2)]
2009 #7 Oregon [10-3 (8-1)]
2009 #11 USC [9-4 (5-4)]

These are the first 3 years. Harbaugh was able to do more with less. He was able to beat good teams and beat them with less.

And here's where your argument is at its flat out most idiotic.

You arbitrarily set the bar at 9 wins for a good team, because that's the bar you thought makes Miami look bad. Yet, by setting the bar at 9 wins for a good team you MAKE THE POINT that Miami was a good team last year and has the opportunity to be a good team again this year with a freshman at quarterback.

Beating opponents who win 9+ is used as a standard in these conversations because albert can't do it. Not because going 9-4 is a magical barrier.

 

[Consigliere]

Stanford doesn't recruit well. They never were going to out talent the big boys (Oregon and USC). Still Harbuagh constantly won games against better teams. Golden's best win came against an 8-5 GT team in 2011.

Here is the 9+ Win Game Club For Harbaugh

2007 #2 USC [11-2(7-2)]
2008 #19 Oregon State [9-4(7-2)]
2009 #7 Oregon [10-3 (8-1)]
2009 #11 USC [9-4 (5-4)]

These are the first 3 years. Harbaugh was able to do more with less. He was able to beat good teams and beat them with less.

And here's where your argument is at its flat out most idiotic.

You arbitrarily set the bar at 9 wins for a good team, because that's the bar you thought makes Miami look bad. Yet, by setting the bar at 9 wins for a good team you MAKE THE POINT that Miami was a good team last year and has the opportunity to be a good team again this year with a freshman at quarterback.

No I didn't set that bar. Al Golden set that bar. He is unable to beat a team (SO FAR) that has more than 8 wins at the end of the season. I'm making the point that Al Golden is not a good coach. My point is Al Golden loses to above average teams even when he has a significant talent advantage. Let me know how good VT and Duke recruits. Let me know how GT's recruiting classes look compared to Miami. I for one wouldn't trade.

As for our Freshman at QB. He is the best QB Al Golden ever had. I don't care if he is a RS-Senior or a newborn. Kaaya is the goods and he is playing darn good.

 

[Consigliere]

Stanford doesn't recruit well. They never were going to out talent the big boys (Oregon and USC). Still Harbuagh constantly won games against better teams. Golden's best win came against an 8-5 GT team in 2011.

Here is the 9+ Win Game Club For Harbaugh

2007 #2 USC [11-2(7-2)]
2008 #19 Oregon State [9-4(7-2)]
2009 #7 Oregon [10-3 (8-1)]
2009 #11 USC [9-4 (5-4)]

These are the first 3 years. Harbaugh was able to do more with less. He was able to beat good teams and beat them with less.

And here's where your argument is at its flat out most idiotic.

You arbitrarily set the bar at 9 wins for a good team, because that's the bar you thought makes Miami look bad. Yet, by setting the bar at 9 wins for a good team you MAKE THE POINT that Miami was a good team last year and has the opportunity to be a good team again this year with a freshman at quarterback.

Beating opponents who win 9+ is used as a standard in these conversations because albert can't do it. Not because going 9-4 is a magical barrier.

Correct.

 

[puertorricane]

If Al Golden was a sun loving beach going person he woild be getting the randy shannon treatment bit sincd he isnt he gets a pass by many of our fans. Yet when you look at it the situations are identical and Golden hasnt improved the program from Shannon in four years.

 

[Canezum5]

Randy took over a program that was in shambles as a first time head coach. We had two major fights on national t.v. Our players were getting killed(r.i.p. pata) and Coker had lost complete control of recruiting and the team. Also trying to keep Shapiro off campus while the bots and shallow run to the bank with his dirty money. Al hasn't gone through a third of that.

And at the end of the day Miami will and did recruit right through it. How? Because its the U. Sanctions will not stop talent from coming here just like it didn't stop the best qb in the nation to pick penn state and didn't stop USC from pulling in top classes either.

Comparing al to great coaches who struggled at points in there career is stupid because most of those coaches still had the ability to put the players in a good position to succeed. Al has tried to force his scheme onto the players in order to sell his book on success in the future. It's really the only reason we haven't been as successful as we should be.

Like consi said, al has no signature wins and can barely escape games against duke and wake forest. He is not a young coach. He's been a hc for 10 years. Wtf.

Al just sucks and no matter how much canefam1 golden and badazz golden take up for him with their contradictory opinions and terrible reading comprehension skills he won't ever be right for Miami.

 

[Consigliere]

You set the bar because you arbitrarily use stats without a lick of context to justify your emotions about Miami losing 3 tough road games earlier this year.

In your words 9+ wins is a good team. I don't even agree with that because I believe in CONTEXT. You're going in loops, cherry picking stats. If I asked you to point at a Butch Davis or Jimbo Fisher team pre-2013 that didn't lose to a less talented team, you couldn't, because it doesn't exist.

And Duke is going to win 9 games this year, Cincinnati may hit that mark, as well. Does that make you feel any better or worse about the future of our team with Brad Kaaya and a bunch of stud underclassmen learning from some really talented leaders like Duke, Dorsett, Perryman etc? Because it shouldn't.

Dear Kelly,

I've been saying this since before the season. I've been this way since we allowed 90 points combined to VT and Duke. Nothing has changed under ALbortion, why?Because we already lost 3 games in year 4. This is how it works under Al. He is consistent. He is consistent with losing. He is consistently losing games and not improving. He doesn't do well against above average teams. Look at the track record. He has ZERO wins against teams that win 9 games. Great, Duke may be his first. I suppose in year 4 this should be Al's Marquee moment...not beating our rival or winning the coastal or the conference or anything but beating Duke. Why didn't he beat Duke last year, we were the favorites? Maybe because Al is not a good coach.

These are all facts I've stated. You can argue around them and claim there arbitrary but there all facts:

1. 0-3 Against FSU,

2. Zero Coastal Titles, and

3. Haven't improved in the ACC since 2012.

9 Games or More+: the point of the 9 game mark only is too illustrate that Golden performs crappy against above average-good teams. That is all. He has ONE win at Miami against a team with 8 wins. If Al was a good coach, he would NOT ONLY beat the bad teams but win more games against the above average-good teams. He doesn't beat these teams though.

Finally, I don't care that Al has really good young players (even though Perryman and Dorsett were upperclassmen last year and are gone). We all know we have better talent than 95% of the teams we play (short of FSU). This is the problem, his talent is not the issue, it is the coaching and development. Al sucks because he gets out coached by teams with inferior talent. That is our problem.

 

[Caneatty]

Bump

 

[SmokeyRone]

I don't care if he wins out or goes 6-6. Winning the awful Coastal is the minimum standard. Absolute minimum.

 

[txcanes]

Once in a lifetime cindrella team that just so happens to be winning again this year after losing a bunch of good players. gtfoh.

He said the day Auburn lost at home to a HORRIBLE Texas A&M team with a true freshman QB and 10 freshmen on defense to ruin their season.

Man, you guys really know your football.

They think they are experts, so funny to read.

 

[motorcitycane]

VT will beat Duke GT will lose another and then we will make it into the ACCG. One can dream right?