Goal line Offense

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

We have a lot of genius offensive coaching minds here, and I'm surprised this hasn't come up.

What everyone seems to be forgetting in terms of the goal line offense is that we have something this year that we certainly did not have last year, a relatively quick and athletic quarterback that's a threat to run it in directly, or pass or run it in on the rollout, pass/run option, and various other uses of someone with legs that actually move.

That was specifically what I was talking about on page 1.

I see that in your referrence to Rosier.

Assuming he's the guy, as it looks now, I can't help but think it helps our red zone offense.

How many times have we seen a mobile QB, whether college or pros, roll out in the red zone, with a receiver or RB shadowing him in or near the goal line, where the QB either flips it in for a passing TD, or runs it in if he's given a seam.

That's just one use of a mobile QB in the end zone. My point is that I think our options might actually be better this year.

Just have to wonder if Rick is just poormouthing and playing possum...his old boss Vince Dooley was a master at that.

Agreed.

Hopefully, Richt is just being super humble, because the reality is, with a more mobile QB at the helm we should actually have even less issues in the Redzone.

I think he's mainly referring to a lack of personnel for Max protections, but the reality is, the Patriots run Max protects all the time with just 1 TE in the Redzone.

Ideally you would want the traditional 2 TE & FB power set, but that shouldn't prevent us from adjusting and utilizing Rosier's strengths as a runner.

Exactly, and you can still run max protect with a little personnel creativity if the situation calls for it. I honestly think that overall we have better options this year in the red zone. Also, I haven't seen Rosier throw the fade, but I'm assuming he can.

 

[CanesNation26]

Something that no one is really talking about is just how bad our o-line depth is. We have Herbert, Mahoney, Jahair Jones, Corey Gaynor, and George Brown as our second-string unit. Quite frankly, that's scary, losing Linda and Sunny could really cost us.

[MENTION=2]DMoney[/MENTION] Have any of these guys flashed/made improvements? Who's our next of the bench at the tackle/interior positions?

 

[Loose Cannon]

Fade to Cager. Solved.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Or Njoku. Or Richards.

6'1" Richards
6'4" Herndon
6'5" Cager
6'6" Njoku

You cannot cover all of those guys in the short field AND defend against the run.

 

[canesjip]

Perry would score every time in the redzone easily

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Why cant we use an extra OL or a DL either on the line or as a lead blocker if we want to bang it in? Not that we have to with Walton, Homer, Rosier, Perry and Dallas. We also have big tall receiving options like Langham, Richards, Cager, Herndon and Njoku. I don't want to hear any of these lame excuses. We have the weapons. Now go out and score.

 

[DMoney]

Something that no one is really talking about is just how bad our o-line depth is. We have Herbert, Mahoney, Jahair Jones, Corey Gaynor, and George Brown as our second-string unit. Quite frankly, that's scary, losing Linda and Sunny could really cost us.

@DMoney Have any of these guys flashed/made improvements? Who's our next of the bench at the tackle/interior positions?

Gaynor is our sixth guy. I will elaborate more in my post-camp write up but he's special. Behind him is sketchy.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Thomas Brown is Offensive Coordinator
Ron Dugans is Passing Game Coordinator
There are 3 quality controls analysts on offense
Mark Richt calls plays

Other notable head coaches that call plays: David Shaw, Jimbo Fisher, Lincoln Riley, Bobby Petrino, Rich Rodriguez, Mike Leach, Paul Chryst, Derek Mason, Willie Taggert, Dan Mullen. There close 40 HC that call there own plays.

When your HC is one of the best offensive minds in the game, you don't pay someone to do it for you.

Not sure this addresses anything of what's being suggested. He still needs top-quality eyes and assistance with implementation. Especially on game day.

I think it was directed at a certain faction of fans who seem to think that calling plays is pretty much all an OC is responsible for, and that because CMR calls his own plays, that makes him the de facto OC. You hear all the time that Richt needs to hire an OC, and what I think OP was pointing out was that we have one. If the play calling is bad, point the finger at the play caller, who may or may not be the OC.

 

[rok]

Sounds like Irving may have turned a corner

[TWEET]899594716232249344[/TWEET]

 

[deleted1998]

It's disconcering that Richt still believes a goal line offense has to consist of a fullback and 2 TE's. Just hire an OC already.

Maybe because he was only talking about a traditional goal line offense? Not attacking you just an assumption. Hopefully this means he realizes we have to get creative to score close now

I just read his full quote and I think you might be right. Still, I wish he would hire a full time OC.

Why refute you when you someone else already did. It's easy to see that he is only talking about traditional goal line, and some of you still have that Al Golden syndrome, Richt isn't the type to use the excuse of not scoring in the goal line because we dont have traditional tight ends and fullbacks.

 

[deleted1998]

CMR mentioned in his post-scrimmage interview today that they have not put in a goal line offense yet and he's not sure that we have the personnel to really have an effective one (I'm paraphrasing but he went on to say we don't have the big fullbacks and tight ends of the past). With that being said, if we are unable to run an effective goal line offense, what kinds of unique packages do you think this team could use instead to effectively score close to the goal line? Could this be a potential wildcat-esque opportunity for a guy like Deejay Dallas?

. I can always count on many posters to give me a good laugh when I read comments on this board. The posts concerning this topic gave me the opportunity to have some good laughs. It seems we have several "expert" amateur coaches on board. They are offering us information how to have a goal line offense. I think you amateur coaches should contact our paid coaches and share your information with them,

This is a message board to discuss the Miami Hurricanes football program. Please do not discourage discussion on any football-related topic.

There is plenty of football related talk that should be discouraged here.

 

[Gables Canes]

This and 3rd and short woes have been a huge issue for a long time. Rick better figure it out quickly or hire an OC. With all the weapons we have, we shouldn't need a mammoth FB and 2nd TE in order to move the chains and/or punch it in the endzone.

 

[LuCane]

CMR mentioned in his post-scrimmage interview today that they have not put in a goal line offense yet and he's not sure that we have the personnel to really have an effective one (I'm paraphrasing but he went on to say we don't have the big fullbacks and tight ends of the past). With that being said, if we are unable to run an effective goal line offense, what kinds of unique packages do you think this team could use instead to effectively score close to the goal line? Could this be a potential wildcat-esque opportunity for a guy like Deejay Dallas?

. I can always count on many posters to give me a good laugh when I read comments on this board. The posts concerning this topic gave me the opportunity to have some good laughs. It seems we have several "expert" amateur coaches on board. They are offering us information how to have a goal line offense. I think you amateur coaches should contact our paid coaches and share your information with them,

This is a message board to discuss the Miami Hurricanes football program. Please do not discourage discussion on any football-related topic.

There is plenty of football related talk that should be discouraged here.

Unless it hurts the program, we're going to disagree on this one.

 

[scrantoncane]

As I said in the other thread, you have a ton of NFL teams running the freakin' 'Gun from inside the 5. Missing an extra TE is less than ideal. Not having a FB should not be a big enough deal. You can add an OL or two, or go Gun, or be creative in terms of who you pop into your backfield. Ton of stuff we can do to be effective there.

Yes, but NFL teams with elite quarterbacks can get away with virtually anything. Consequently the Patriots aren't a good example of anything over the past decade or more. Try to emulate them and it's doomed to flop. None of the schemes are particularly remarkable, as Charlie Weiss was doomed to discover. They have quick resourceful guys and Brady is simply a genius at maximization, especially when it matters.

Without a Brady or Brees type talent, its not as easy as many are making it sound to get completions near the goal line. Possibly the worst suggestion of all that I keep reading is the fade, which is one of the lowest completion percentage plays in football, and requires a QB with the accuracy to put it in an ant's cnut - which Rosier does not have.

On top of that, the Patriots will pound it down your throat when the situation calls for it. A few years ago, they had a RB come in and score 4 TDs, only to never be heard from again. They are the best at situational offense. This goes to my point of lining up in shotgun and/or throwing because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to. Outside of anyone but FSU, we shouldn't have to get cute to pick up feet or inches. We should be able to win up front battles against the GTs and UNCs of the world.





If the Canes want to study and emulate an NFL team in terms of red zone sophistication and variety, it should be the Titans. Yes, the Titans. They quietly have been absolutely superb in the red zone since Mariota arrived. They generally use the shotgun but it's mostly power based with two backs and fantastic variety of play calls, utilizing play action and any number of crossing routes, delayed routes, mixed with power runs. Mariota's stats are incredible in the red zone, especially for such a young quarterback. In such congested space the young quarterbacks are often suckered.

The reference to the Titans is probably the best reply I've read so far. Elements of the power run game, while still making the D account for the pass or QB run. Carolina does a good job of this too, but Rosier is no Cam (not many are). But Carolina also has a nice power game out of the shotgun.

My reply is in red.

I think a lack of OL and TE depth is going to cost us. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[LuCane]

The "you need to have Brady or Brees to run spread well from the goal line" flies in the face of evidence across so many levels of football. This isn't a hypothetical. Go watch La. Tech, as an extreme example to drive home the point, and their "elite" QB. They were about 30 spots higher than us in redzone efficiency.



Here's Middle Tennessee State against Missouri. MTSU was #6 in the country in Red Zone efficiency.



To even further weaken the argument about traditional personnel groupings, we had 2 NFL TEs and an NFL FB last year, relative depth at OL (compared to this year) and we were still 87th in efficiency.

*Lack of OL is totally different if you're talking about depth. Everyone can agree if one of our starters go down, we're thin and in trouble.

 

[scrantoncane]

The "you need to have Brady or Brees to run spread well from the goal line" flies in the face of evidence across so many levels of football. This isn't a hypothetical. Go watch La. Tech, as an extreme example to drive home the point, and their "elite" QB. ****, pull up video of the D-II playoffs.

To add, we had 2 NFL TEs and an NFL FB last year, relative depth at OL (compared to this year) and we were still 87th in efficiency.

Lack of OL is totally different if you're talking about depth. Everyone can agree if one of our starters go down, we're thin and in trouble.

I referenced lack of OL depth bc it has been suggested (by myself, included) that some sort of power package be installed because of the lack of FB and TE, but we don't really even have OL to do that.

And I do not disagree that plenty of teams have success spreading it out near the goal line, although I would argue that the lesser the talent level (La Tech, DII), the easier it becomes.

Again, my issue is that this has not been addressed yet. Richt did not spread it out at the goal line at UGA. Presumably, our guys have no practice experience spreading it out at the goal line. We have a QB that likes to throw it to the defense in practice. It is a lot easier to talk about it on a message board than it is to implement it and expect consistantly successful results. I am concerned that we are 3.5 weeks out from FSU and we have nothing in place.

 

[scrantoncane]

Non issue IMO.

Defenses match offensive personnel, so bringing in more TE's and/or FB's is going to get more DL/LB's from the defense.
Going spread is going to get more DB's on the field.

At the end of the day boils down to match-ups.

If we line-up with "heavy" personnel then we still have to win our individual battles. It's mano y mano down there. Our O-linemen have to beat their guy, our FB has to beat his guy and our RB will likely have to make a guy miss.

It's no different if you line-up in spread. You're gonna get press-man coverage and our guys have to win their battles. (our WR's have to beat press)

It just all boils down to who you trust more to win battles. I like our WR's versus DB's more than our like our OL versus a stacked box.

Do you really match personnel at the goal line when you only have a 10 yard deep end zone to account for? Don't you still keep extra DL in there to stuff all the gaps, in case its an inside handoff or designed QB run? I am genuinely asking, because I respect your Xs and Os knowledge.

For the record, I am not pessimistic, I am just a guy that needs real football to start ASAP so I can stop dissecting every word our coaches say after practice.

 

[Loose Cannon]

The "you need to have Brady or Brees to run spread well from the goal line" flies in the face of evidence across so many levels of football. This isn't a hypothetical. Go watch La. Tech, as an extreme example to drive home the point, and their "elite" QB. ****, pull up video of the D-II playoffs.

To add, we had 2 NFL TEs and an NFL FB last year, relative depth at OL (compared to this year) and we were still 87th in efficiency.

Lack of OL is totally different if you're talking about depth. Everyone can agree if one of our starters go down, we're thin and in trouble.

I referenced lack of OL depth bc it has been suggested (by myself, included) that some sort of power package be installed because of the lack of FB and TE, but we don't really even have OL to do that.

And I do not disagree that plenty of teams have success spreading it out near the goal line, although I would argue that the lesser the talent level (La Tech, DII), the easier it becomes.

Again, my issue is that this has not been addressed yet. Richt did not spread it out at the goal line at UGA. Presumably, our guys have no practice experience spreading it out at the goal line. It is a lot easier to talk about it on a message board than it is to implement it and expect consistantly successful results. I am concerned that we are 3.5 weeks out from FSU and we have nothing in place.

Not exactly goal line, but I do remember one play inside the 10 where CMR chose to go with a spread look.

 

[LuCane]

The "you need to have Brady or Brees to run spread well from the goal line" flies in the face of evidence across so many levels of football. This isn't a hypothetical. Go watch La. Tech, as an extreme example to drive home the point, and their "elite" QB. ****, pull up video of the D-II playoffs.

To add, we had 2 NFL TEs and an NFL FB last year, relative depth at OL (compared to this year) and we were still 87th in efficiency.

Lack of OL is totally different if you're talking about depth. Everyone can agree if one of our starters go down, we're thin and in trouble.

I referenced lack of OL depth bc it has been suggested (by myself, included) that some sort of power package be installed because of the lack of FB and TE, but we don't really even have OL to do that.

And I do not disagree that plenty of teams have success spreading it out near the goal line, although I would argue that the lesser the talent level (La Tech, DII), the easier it becomes.

Again, my issue is that this has not been addressed yet. Richt did not spread it out at the goal line at UGA. Presumably, our guys have no practice experience spreading it out at the goal line. It is a lot easier to talk about it on a message board than it is to implement it and expect consistantly successful results. I am concerned that we are 3.5 weeks out from FSU and we have nothing in place.

I edited my post a bit to clean up the answer.

#1 So long as we have 5-6 OL and a TE, we can flash a power run game. I'd say we're actually in better position to do this now because Gauthier and Donaldson will be better suited to run Power (literally).

#2 I added the Middle Tennessee State example (especially against Mizzou) because it once again contradicts the thinking you need to have a marksman or elite talent to run spread sets with power elements inside the redzone. Further, they were #6 in the nation in efficiency.

#3 Understood. However, we've run a ton of spread sets over the past year. We've run inside zone and we've run power. Why is it a stretch to just extend that to inside the RZ? Now, it may break tendency and that's sorta the point we're addressing here, but it's not like having 2TEs, a professional FB and about 7 OL last year got us anywhere but 87th. I share your concern about being able to adjust and breaking tendency. I imagine Richt will adjust as he did to other aspects at the end of last season, though.

 

[LuCane]

Non issue IMO.

Defenses match offensive personnel, so bringing in more TE's and/or FB's is going to get more DL/LB's from the defense.
Going spread is going to get more DB's on the field.

At the end of the day boils down to match-ups.

If we line-up with "heavy" personnel then we still have to win our individual battles. It's mano y mano down there. Our O-linemen have to beat their guy, our FB has to beat his guy and our RB will likely have to make a guy miss.

It's no different if you line-up in spread. You're gonna get press-man coverage and our guys have to win their battles. (our WR's have to beat press)

It just all boils down to who you trust more to win battles. I like our WR's versus DB's more than our like our OL versus a stacked box.

Do you really match personnel at the goal line when you only have a 10 yard deep end zone to account for? Don't you still keep extra DL in there to stuff all the gaps, in case its an inside handoff or designed QB run? I am genuinely asking, because I respect your Xs and Os knowledge.

For the record, I am not pessimistic, I am just a guy that needs real football to start ASAP so I can stop dissecting every word our coaches say after practice.

If we spread to 3WR and Herndon and the defense doesn't match, you run the most basic route combination on the outside and score easier than driving it home with power against a stacked front.

I agree with you in minimizing the low-efficiency "fade" route. For those who say basic route combinations require exceptional accuracy, again, you see this at even the HS level. Running a quick out when Berrios/Harley/Thomas are matched up on a LB (in the case they didn't match up) requires the ball to be in the air about 12 total yards. If Rosier can't execute that, he shouldn't play at all.

I'm optimistic Richt will adjust accordingly. He's shown good evidence of adjusting already as a UM coach. It's a matter of adjusting quickly in-game, which is why I hope guys on his staff are helping there. He can't be expected to be calling plays, observing tendencies, adjusting and running the team. Little heavy.

 

[Coach Macho]

Non issue IMO.

Defenses match offensive personnel, so bringing in more TE's and/or FB's is going to get more DL/LB's from the defense.
Going spread is going to get more DB's on the field.

At the end of the day boils down to match-ups.

If we line-up with "heavy" personnel then we still have to win our individual battles. It's mano y mano down there. Our O-linemen have to beat their guy, our FB has to beat his guy and our RB will likely have to make a guy miss.

It's no different if you line-up in spread. You're gonna get press-man coverage and our guys have to win their battles. (our WR's have to beat press)

It just all boils down to who you trust more to win battles. I like our WR's versus DB's more than our like our OL versus a stacked box.

Do you really match personnel at the goal line when you only have a 10 yard deep end zone to account for? Don't you still keep extra DL in there to stuff all the gaps, in case its an inside handoff or designed QB run? I am genuinely asking, because I respect your Xs and Os knowledge.

For the record, I am not pessimistic, I am just a guy that needs real football to start ASAP so I can stop dissecting every word our coaches say after practice.

Well most DC's will go Cover-1 or Cover-0 in that territory. This would allow the defense to keep 5 D-linemen on the field if they wanted to. (with 1 Linebacker or 2 if it's Cover-0)