Kiffin won 66% of his games at USC during his 1st 3 years ... Butch won 65% of his games at Miami during his 1st 3 years.
Both dealt with teams with NCAA sanctions, and Kiffin couldn't use track and academic scholarships to get around those penalties.
Both had really bad years during their 3rd season ...
And both coaches were 3-2 in the 1st 5 games of their 4th season ...
You, and others, can allow what Butch did after that to deify him, but the numbers clearly suggest Butch and Kiffin were equals during their first 40 games as HC.
You can add whatever narrative you like ... The numbers are the numbers.
As for the UNC days ...
... Some, maybe even you, are allowing message board legend to become fact. This belief that Butch had some awesome 2010 team that the NCAA suspensions decimated isn't factual.
That team was ranked 18th in the country to start the season.
If you're telling me that team was poised to do damage, then I'll remind you that his 2009 team started the season ranked 20th, and finished the season unranked at 8-5, and 4-4 in the ACC.
His 2008 team also spent various weeks in the top 20, before finishing the season unranked.
And his first team at UNC had TJ Yates, Greg Little, Hakeem Nicks, and Brandon Tate on the roster ... All future NFL pros. How did he only manage 4 wins with that much NFL talent on offense? The same way Kiffin could go 7-6 with NFL talent at Tennessee in year 1 ... It wasn't really his team.
But beyond that ... For the BBB crowd ... NC State is a basketball school, too ... And Tom O'Brien OWNED Butch Davis, beating him 4 consecutive times from 2007-2010. NC State doesn't have some solid history that would give them an inherent advantage over UNC .... That was just about coaching, and O'Brien outcoached Butch every time they played.
You think Kiffin's immediate past should disqualify him. I think his immediate past is no more a disqualifier than Butch's.
Again, I'm not discrediting what Butch did 20 years ago ... But it was 20 years ago ...
And with certainty, I'll wager Kiffin will be a college HC before Butch.
Which, either, means Kiffin is viewed as the better coach, or Butch has some NCAA issues college ADs can't get beyond ...
I'm just looking for consistency from the BBB crew.
So, Kiffn has 13 pros on the Tennessee team, and you knock him for the record he had in his only season there after they had just fired a coach, right?
Now, remind me how many players Butch had drafted from his UNC teams and tell me why he never finished higher than 3rd in the Coastal?
I'm not knocking Butch ... But I find it interesting that people keep knocking other candidates who are just as unproven as Butch was when he got the UM job. Fans wanted to fire Butch, too .. But he figured it out.
Who's to say Kiffin can't figure it out?
Seriously ... The names people love today would have been talked about to no end 5-6 years ago ...
Had we stolen the OC from a gimmicky Oregon team, fans would have been griping about taking Chip Kelly. But now, he's awesome!
Had we taken the coach from the University of Cincinnati 10 years ago, fans would have gone crazy! Who's Mark Dantonio?
And while many are on the "we should have hired Gary Patterson or Kevin Sumlin" train, now, both of those guys were getting knocked for coaching at TCU and Houston.
Fans who want the BOT and admin to have some vision for the future ought to follow their own advice ...
We're not "going BACK to the future" ...
I've got no clue if Kiffin or Chad Morris would be successful as our HC ... But both are realistic, and both would come with equivalent or better credentials than our last 4 coaches, including Butch when he was hired, IMO.
Lane Kiffin's one year at Tennessee he had a roster that included 13 players that would be later drafted into the NFL including 8 players in the top 4 rounds and three 1st rounders and he went 7-6 while losing to a UCLA team at home that went 7-6 and an Auburn team at home.
That's the difference between him and Butch if you want to get whiny. Butch lost to better teams and Kiffin lost to worse teams. Above all else, as scholarships improved Butch's team got better and Kiffin's teams got worse.
He had 6 players drafted in just that one year so he had an overwhelming amount of talent, just a small talent edge if you could read deeper seeing as I didn't think it needed to be put so bluntly. And the fact that Tennessee went full stupid and fired Phil Fulmer is their fault and you mentioning is a moot point. Fulmer was two years removed from 10 wins and first place finish in the SEC East, had a disappointing 5-7 season, everybody panicked, and they've sucked absolute *** ever since.
North Carolina hadn't gone better than 6-6 in the five years prior to Butch walking onto campus and they had a season of 3-9 and 2-10 sprinkled in there so Butch took over a situation a thousand times worse than Kiffin did. Butch's first three years at UNC, he had three total players drafted. In 2010, he had nine players drafted but four of them missed big portions of the season or all of the season like Robert Quinn so that might have had just a little something to do with why the team underachieved. With those players, he wins two more games minimum so your argument is shot.
Butch had Miami ties, fit the style, and oozed likability and not Southern California doucheiness like Kiffin does. Butch, from the jump, showed that he got it and got better and weathered the storm of sanctions. The biggest damning piece of evidence over your odd man-crush on Kiffin and that he can't figure it out is that he had the preseason
[URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] team in the country in 2012 and they finished 7-6 and unranked. He not only hadn't figured it out and his play calling of, "Throw it to Amari Cooper," doesn't make me change my mind yet.
And now you're just languishing in a world of hypotheticals and grasping at straws. Nobody would have griped about Chip Kelly the same way nobody would really gripe if we took Scott Frost tomorrow. Mark Dantonio was the defensive coordinator for Ohio State in 2002 before he was the Cincinnati head coach so most fans saw him scheme and play call brilliantly so I highly doubt people would have complained as much as you're pretending they would have.
I don't see anybody saying we missed out on Kevin Sumlin too much. Last year poked a hole in my opinion of him but this will be the real rubber year now that he has a well above par DC. Gary Patterson had won 10 games or more seven times when his name was being linked with Miami and he was falling in the Jimmy Johnson southern school paradigm so people would have fallen into a similar line of thinking so all you really did was just make up scenarios.
Your definition of what the BOT and the Admin should view as a bright future is just you impressing your opinion passive aggressively. Going back to the future would yield tangible results since we have already been down this road and seen the results in spite of your whining.
I've got a clue on Kiffin. He wouldn't be a success for a laundry list of reasons that includes his failure with above average talent, his inability to inspire his players, and his poor in game adjustments and game planning particularly on defense. There's a bunch of reasons. Pick your favorite. Chad Morris hasn't been a head coach for a single game yet so it seems fair to give him at least a year or so to evaluate because he at least can recruit in South Florida and now in a major hub like SMU the sky is the limit talent wise and minor scheme creativity could really give rise to something.
However, your argument that Kiffin or Morris have credentials even in the same wheelhouse as Butch as laughable. Butch was a two time national champion participant and one time national championship winner as the DL coach for us, a one time Super Bowl winner as the DL coach for the Cowboys, and a one time Super Bowl winner as the DC for the Cowboys. Lane Kiffin was the WR coach for the 2003 USC champions and the 2004 USC vacated champions and then the OC for USC where the offense began to decline where he then jumped to the Oakland Raiders to go a pathetic 5-15 before failing at Tennessee with a wealth of talent before failing at USC with a wealth of talent and going from preseason
[URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] to 7-6 and unranked and fired at the airport before being an above par OC for Alabama. Chad Morris has been the OC for very impressive offenses and one ACC Atlantic title and one ACC championship. Those resumes don't even compare to Butch's.
