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ESPN: 'They're in a deep, deep hole': Inside the 6-year unraveling of Florida State football

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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Not really. From 2007 onward we’ve had virtually no off field problems. Bad coaching and bad coaching hires, yes, most definitely. Facilities, while not at SEC or Clemson levels, have also markedly improved slowly but surely since then. Is there room for improvement? Yes. But we’re not in some declining falling to the bottom state as far as that goes.
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Just have to caveat with one big off-field issue: Shapiro. But in terms of actual legal problems caused by players (rapes, drugs, robberies, murders, serial killers, *** drug dealing serial killers- basically UF's entire modus operandi) Miami kept a clean nose.
 
TimeB0mb said:
Just have to caveat with one big off-field issue: Shapiro. But in terms of actual legal problems caused by players (rapes, drugs, robberies, murders, serial killers, *** drug dealing serial killers- basically UF's entire modus operandi) Miami kept a clean nose.
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Shapiro was low hanging fruit and in essence a manufactured issue by a hack reporter trying to make a name for himself at our school’s expense.

The real cheaters, by a million times, were in the SEC, and he knew it, but he was afraid of being lynched and thought urban thug stereotypes would play better to the reading public.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Shapiro was low hanging fruit and in essence a manufactured issue by a hack reporter trying to make a name for himself at our school’s expense.

The real cheaters, by a million times, were in the SEC, and he knew it, but he was afraid of being lynched and thought urban thug stereotypes would play better to the reading public.
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Right.

I would have LOVED to have seen Yahoo set up a separate webpage for every SEC player who has even been ALLEGED to have taken extra benefits from an SEC booster.

They would have broken the internet.
 
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Shapiro was low hanging fruit and in essence a manufactured issue by a hack reporter trying to make a name for himself at our school’s expense.

The real cheaters, by a million times, were in the SEC, and he knew it, but he was afraid of being lynched and thought urban thug stereotypes would play better to the reading public.
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In a weird way, the reporter may have done us a favor. Since the yahoo reporter turned it into national news, the NCAA got such a hard-on to give Miami the death penalty that it tripped over its d!ck in its rush to act and blew up the investigation. If it had been kept on the DL, the NCAA might have slower and more methodical and Miami wouldnt have a football program today.
 
AlexCane said:
Do we though? I do not believe that we have the resources to compete with Bama, Clemson, OSU, and various SEC schools.
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Do you have to be reminded where we're based?

Bama, Clemson, OSU etc have to bag kids up because of their location. If we win consistently, kids that have played together since they first put on pads will want to play together in college.

You're ALWAYS going to lose the front running 5 stars who are bagged up at 13, but that's the nature of the game. Bring the rest in and the college world trembles.
 
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OldhamA said:
Do you have to be reminded where we're based?

Bama, Clemson, OSU etc have to bag kids up because of their location. If we win consistently, kids that have played together since they first put on pads will want to play together in college.

You're ALWAYS going to lose the front running 5 stars who are bagged up at 13, but that's the nature of the game. Bring the rest in and the college world trembles.
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Our location is good, our booster network is the absolute worst. It does not even compare to even the lower level SEC schools. And that’s where the money comes from
 
OldhamA said:
Do you have to be reminded where we're based?

Bama, Clemson, OSU etc have to bag kids up because of their location. If we win consistently, kids that have played together since they first put on pads will want to play together in college.

You're ALWAYS going to lose the front running 5 stars who are bagged up at 13, but that's the nature of the game. Bring the rest in and the college world trembles.
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There's another aspect of this. We are in a metro area where the media ain't gonna do our bidding. It's full of people, e.g. Le *******, who are social climbers, and see any story- including negatives- as a means to do that. That **** gets shut down real quick in Saban town.

If SMU had been in a small town with a massive alumni network and local media behind it, you may never have known that their players had W2 income.
 
TimeB0mb said:
1. A coach who flirted with a seemingly endless string of deep-pocketed suitors. No. (The only flirt was Golden with PSU, and we wanted him to leave)
2. A contentious power struggle among the program's leadership. Maybe.
3. Demands for bigger and better facilities stressing an already tight budget. Yes
4. A pervasive attitude of entitlement within the locker room. Yes
5. Declining academic performance. And a string of high-profile, off-field trouble that bruised the program's reputation. No & No.

Miami's problems haven't been nearly as bad as FSUs and they are quite different.

Miami's biggest issue by far is bad HCs (Jimbo landed at a top P5, none of our former HCs even coached P5 again). The second major issue is lack of bags. FSU had both a championship winning coach this decade and still has bags. I don't think there is that much in common between the decline of the programs.

Also, the AD not letting Fisher start a foundation for his own sick kid was a douche move. I don't think Flake James is that callous.
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Some of 3 and for sure 4, for us. We also had cronyism to deal with. Plus, I know some of you don't like to hear this, because you think every Miami player is a NFL prospect who just needs "better coaching," but the level of talent has been wildly uneven for a while. We've had plenty of kids at several positions who had worked hard, tried their best, but just weren't major college level players. So for us, I'd say facilities+entitlement+cronyism+overall talent not up to par.
 
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JeddTheFisch said:
There's another aspect of this. We are in a metro area where the media ain't gonna do our bidding. It's full of people, e.g. Le *******, who are social climbers, and see any story- including negatives- as a means to do that. That **** gets shut down real quick in Saban town.

If SMU had been in a small town with a massive alumni network and local media behind it, you may never have known that their players had W2 income.
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Truth.

Most of what LeBastard wrote about in his first series of articles was "old information", that is, stuff he knew from when he was a UM undergrad and the players "trusted him" because Dannyboy was a classmate and "friend". None of that was "super-reporter" Dan LeBastard going after the seamy underbelly of college football.

Anyone know how many great exposes LeBastard has published since then?

Spoiler Alert...

ZERO-POINT-ZERO.

****, if I would have known that trading in my undergrad knowledge for a full-time job on ESPN would have worked, I could have done the same thing.
 
LPK2006 said:
Some of 3 and for sure 4, for us. We also had cronyism to deal with. Plus, I know some of you don't like to hear this, because you think every Miami player is a NFL prospect who just needs "better coaching," but the level of talent has been wildly uneven for a while. We've had plenty of kids at several positions who had worked hard, tried their best, but just weren't major college level players. So for us, I'd say facilities+entitlement+cronyism+overall talent not up to par.
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Anybody that thinks our talent level has been anywhere close to even sniffing championship or even consistent conference title contender level is kidding themselves. I’m talking about the last 15 years or so.

Yes, we’ve had some good players, but not across-the-board, and not enough to get to the aforementioned levels.

People keep saying we are not developing players, and to some extent that’s true, but when the raw talent isn’t there, you can develop all you want, they’re just not going to get to the level that someone with that natural raw talent would. Perfect example since were talking about FSU: Yearby versus Dalvin Cook
 
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LPK2006 said:
The more I think about it, the worst issue Miami has dealt with over the past decade might have been the cronyism. It really tends to rot out a program, I think. D'Onofrio, mini-Richt.......it's just not a great idea to hire your friends and family.
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First rule of a successful business: Never hire someone you can’t fire.
 
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