ESPN: 'They're in a deep, deep hole': Inside the 6-year unraveling of Florida State football

[Rellyrell]

1. A coach who flirted with a seemingly endless string of deep-pocketed suitors. No. (The only flirt was Golden with PSU, and we wanted him to leave)
2. A contentious power struggle among the program's leadership. Maybe.
3. Demands for bigger and better facilities stressing an already tight budget. Yes
4. A pervasive attitude of entitlement within the locker room. Yes
5. Declining academic performance. And a string of high-profile, off-field trouble that bruised the program's reputation. No & No.

Miami's problems haven't been nearly as bad as FSUs and they are quite different.

Miami's biggest issue by far is bad HCs (Jimbo landed at a top P5, none of our former HCs even coached P5 again). The second major issue is lack of bags. FSU had both a championship winning coach this decade and still has bags. I don't think there is that much in common between the decline of the programs.

Also, the AD not letting Fisher start a foundation for his own sick kid was a douche move. I don't think Flake James is that callous.

I think you might want to revisit #5 & think again my guy. Remember the negative recruiting against us, having parents thinking Miami was a place where only thugs go?

 

[AlexCane]

Come to Miami so we can beat anyone and everyone.

Dude I'm with you. But look at it objectively from high school kids' perspective. We play in a stadium that is generally not filled to capacity in slots that are typically not prime-time slots or marquee matchups. Conversely, we got all the SEC schools recruiting down here and they're on the major networks down here, filled to capacity in big time games. It matters in terms of where the kids will get national recognition and a stage to highlight their abilities. I mean, if you're a high school kid, you want to be on the ACC network at noon or 3:30 national game on CBS?

 

[423Hurricane]

Some Miami "fans" think we're the only school in the country with issues. If nothing else, this article proves otherwise.

 

[AlexCane]

Stop being soft and dopey.

Does UNC need to tell recruits "we define ourselves by beating NC State"?

Whether our "historical rival" is good or not is not the definition of our program. Whether we win all of our games is the definition of our program.

Besides our next-most-frequent rival is Virginia Tech. A long-standing independent before joining the Big East. It may not be as **** as F$U, but I'm still not compelled to pine away for F$U to "get better, like in the olden days".

F$U should be a cautionary tale that causes Beta Blake to wake up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night, and motivates him to do more when he goes to work each day.

You're misconstruing what I'm saying. It's not that we need FSU to be good. But we need marquee matchups in our schedule to attract kids to come here. Look at this year's schedule. Clemson was a **** matchup but that doesn't even happen if not for covid. Had we played the pre-covid schedule, there's only a single ranked team on that schedule (UNC). That's not optimum when you're trying to vie for high school kid's attention.

 

[Brains]

Dude I'm with you. But look at it objectively from high school kids' perspective. We play in a stadium that is generally not filled to capacity in slots that are typically not prime-time slots or marquee matchups. Conversely, we got all the SEC schools recruiting down here and they're on the major networks down here, filled to capacity in big time games. It matters in terms of where the kids will get national recognition and a stage to highlight their abilities. I mean, if you're a high school kid, you want to be on the ACC network at noon or 3:30 national game on CBS?

Your argument is fair.

The response is also very simple: If the Miami Hurricanes are a perennial 10+ game winner, every game is a marquee game, and everything you mentioned gets better (attendance, tv, recognition).

 

[Canes2082]

Agreed. This portion of the article was interesting:

If Fisher was brusque, however, those close to him believed it was out of necessity. Bowden's tenure also ended poorly, as a contingent of boosters ushered the aging coach out the door after many years of mediocrity. As one source said, many at FSU wanted Fisher's record with Bowden's budget. But Fisher saw Clemson's program expanding, including plans for a $55 million football facility that opened in 2017, and he believed Florida State needed to keep pace.

"He knew if Florida State didn't jump on top of it right away, Clemson would eventually overtake everyone," one Fisher staffer said. "Their administration on down, everyone was in alignment with the vision of the program and totally committed to doing what it takes to make football successful."

This is the concern I have. I don't believe the Miami administration has the money or the interest in overtaking Clemson and competing at that level.

I dont know if we're ever gonna have the money because our alumni base is so much smaller than other schools.

Many of our alumni are also international and don't have the same investment to the team and university as those that grow up in the area rooting for Clemson

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I think you might want to revisit #5 & think again my guy. Remember the negative recruiting against us, having parents thinking Miami was a place where only thugs go?

No and Yes. If anything, Miami's academic performance was exceptional during the early 2000s, right up to Julio Frenk. I guess that's pretty much the only positive that can be said for Shalala's tenure. Pata's murder (which Bootch used against us) and Nevin Shapiro really hurt, but generally Miami didn't have players getting in trouble. The ones that did were kicked off the team, which caused great consternation on this site. Shannon, Golden, and Richt all tried to run clean programs, for better or worse. The rest of the reputation came from the 1980s era Canes. Miami will always be Thug U even if the entire team gets canonized by Pope Francis.

IMO, Miami had three huge misses that would have changed Miami's trajectory, and none of them had anything to do with the school's reputation.
1. Teddy Bridgewater (because Shannon was fired)
2. Dalvin Cook (FSU isn't FSU without Dalvin Cook)
3. Patrick Peterson (bags)

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’m certainly not saying we need them to be good. But certainly more gratifying to beat them when they are respectable. And you can’t deny that beating a well respected ranked team (especially a rival) certainly helps your own national perception

All of those things may be true. I still hate F$U and I still want F$U to fail in every possible way.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

You're misconstruing what I'm saying. It's not that we need FSU to be good. But we need marquee matchups in our schedule to attract kids to come here. Look at this year's schedule. Clemson was a **** matchup but that doesn't even happen if not for covid. Had we played the pre-covid schedule, there's only a single ranked team on that schedule (UNC). That's not optimum when you're trying to vie for high school kid's attention.

Sure, it would be helpful for the ACC to have better quality teams. And I have LONG argued for two good P5 OOC games EVERY YEAR, while the pvssies on the board have told us that "all we need" is one good P5 OOC game per year.

But I don't care how good or how bad our opponents are, we have to win every game.

I still remember the Sports Illustrated cover from 1986 when SI claimed that Miami's #1 ranking was due to our poor schedule. Fvck SI and fvck all the haters.

Just win, baby.

 

[TrueFloridian]

Dude I'm with you. But look at it objectively from high school kids' perspective. We play in a stadium that is generally not filled to capacity in slots that are typically not prime-time slots or marquee matchups. Conversely, we got all the SEC schools recruiting down here and they're on the major networks down here, filled to capacity in big time games. It matters in terms of where the kids will get national recognition and a stage to highlight their abilities. I mean, if you're a high school kid, you want to be on the ACC network at noon or 3:30 national game on CBS?

We were on college Gameday two weeks in a row on prime time. Almost all our games have been night games on ESPN and ABC. Try again.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Your argument is fair.

The response is also very simple: If the Miami Hurricanes are a perennial 10+ game winner, every game is a marquee game, and everything you mentioned gets better (attendance, tv, recognition).

EXACTLY.

Why does Miami have to define itself by "our opponents", when just about every team that plays Miami treats our game like "their Super Bowl".

Be the best Miami we can be, and everyone else will be gunning for us, not the other way around.

 

[JD08]

 

[The Franchise]

I know we hate Florida State, but seeing them so terrible isn’t good for us either.

1. Makes the rivalry game mean nothing

2. Kids that used to go to FSU are now going to the SEC. That continues to build the SEC’s allure as the hands down best conference.

3. Along with point #2, the ACC now only has Clemson as a national team making it look like a weak conference.

A decent FSU is good for a good Miami team.

Please stop with this. Seeing FSU suck is the best thing in the world for us.

 

[Canes Device]

Fvck FSU, we fight for the same recruits, so they being trash is good for Miami no matter what. The point about marquee games and opponents is a fair one, but if we ever get to the level we want Miami we can schedule out of conference teams, like LSU 2018, Bama 2021 and so on.

Now, one thing that makes my blood boil about CFB and something that makes me sick is reading something like this:

"Wilcox pushed for the hire, which was, according to sources, enthusiastically approved by Thrasher and Burr. Negotiations moved quickly and Taggart's agent, Jimmy Sexton (who also represents Fisher and Norvell), secured a six-year contract with a hefty buyout of about $18 million. Wilcox also failed to properly account for Taggart's buyout with Oregon, according to two sources close to the situation, which also included paying off the remainder of his buyout from his previous stop at USF. The combined price tag to hire Taggart was $34.5 million."

There are so very few coaches that actually make a difference. So why are colleges this quick to throw money away? Money that could be spent in something for the athletes and students and ends up on agents and coaches pockets just because

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Fvck FSU, we fight for the same recruits, so they being trash is good for Miami no matter what. The point about marquee games and opponents is a fair one, but if we ever get to the level we want Miami we can schedule out of conference teams, like LSU 2018, Bama 2021 and so on.

Now, one thing that makes my blood boil about CFB and something that makes me sick is reading something like this:

"Wilcox pushed for the hire, which was, according to sources, enthusiastically approved by Thrasher and Burr. Negotiations moved quickly and Taggart's agent, Jimmy Sexton (who also represents Fisher and Norvell), secured a six-year contract with a hefty buyout of about $18 million. Wilcox also failed to properly account for Taggart's buyout with Oregon, according to two sources close to the situation, which also included paying off the remainder of his buyout from his previous stop at USF. The combined price tag to hire Taggart was $34.5 million."

There are so very few coaches that actually make a difference. So why are colleges this quick to throw money away? Money that could be spent in something for the athletes and students and ends up on agents and coaches pockets just because

Good point at the end, there.

There is, literally, an NCAA violation case that punished a school and a female athlete for using UNIVERSITY WATER FROM A UNIVERSITY HOSE to wash her car, while it is OK to spend THIRTY-FOUR MILLION DOLLARS to induce a coach to break TWO consecutive employment contracts.

Just let that sink in.

 

[Brains]

Fvck FSU, we fight for the same recruits, so they being trash is good for Miami no matter what. The point about marquee games and opponents is a fair one, but if we ever get to the level we want Miami we can schedule out of conference teams, like LSU 2018, Bama 2021 and so on.

Now, one thing that makes my blood boil about CFB and something that makes me sick is reading something like this:

"Wilcox pushed for the hire, which was, according to sources, enthusiastically approved by Thrasher and Burr. Negotiations moved quickly and Taggart's agent, Jimmy Sexton (who also represents Fisher and Norvell), secured a six-year contract with a hefty buyout of about $18 million. Wilcox also failed to properly account for Taggart's buyout with Oregon, according to two sources close to the situation, which also included paying off the remainder of his buyout from his previous stop at USF. The combined price tag to hire Taggart was $34.5 million."

There are so very few coaches that actually make a difference. So why are colleges this quick to throw money away? Money that could be spent in something for the athletes and students and ends up on agents and coaches pockets just because

Ive gotta hand it to Willie. The man really knows how to fail forward.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Ive gotta hand it to Willie. The man really knows how to fail forward.

Willie's a genius in his own way. If you add it all up and prorate the buyouts, he's probably getting paid more than Nick Saban at Bama to coach FAU. If Taggart created an online course to teach how to be like him, I'd sign up.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Willie's a genius in his own way. If you add it all up and prorate the buyouts, he's probably getting paid more than Nick Saban at Bama to coach FAU. If Taggart created an online course to teach how to be like him, I'd sign up.

I don't think Willie gets paid the prior-employer buyouts. That money goes to USF and Oregon. The only windfall Willie got was the F$U buyout of his contract.

Now, did it COST a lot for F$U? Absolutely.

 

[GojiraCane]

Stevenson said altercations were common between veterans of FSU's best years and younger players who lacked the focus and drive to win at a high level, and he worried what would become of the team after those veterans left.

Sounds like the problems that Miami faced in 2004 onward

Demands for bigger and better facilities stressing an already tight budget. A pervasive attitude of entitlement within the locker room. Declining academic performance. And a string of high-profile, off-field trouble that bruised the program's reputation.

Exactly what happened to Miami from 2004 onward

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Stevenson said altercations were common between veterans of FSU's best years and younger players who lacked the focus and drive to win at a high level, and he worried what would become of the team after those veterans left.

Sounds like the problems that Miami faced in 2004 onward

Demands for bigger and better facilities stressing an already tight budget. A pervasive attitude of entitlement within the locker room. Declining academic performance. And a string of high-profile, off-field trouble that bruised the program's reputation.

Exactly what happened to Miami from 2004 onward

Not really. From 2007 onward we’ve had virtually no off field problems. Bad coaching and bad coaching hires, yes, most definitely. Facilities, while not at SEC or Clemson levels, have also markedly improved slowly but surely since then. Is there room for improvement? Yes. But we’re not in some declining falling to the bottom state as far as that goes.