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I thought Sermon was going to be the pick there for sure.
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NFL Dolphins draft plan
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CaneDawgCrew
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Atlanta played us this draft.
Took Pitts
Traded with Denver and they took Williams
What did we do to **** them off lol
Took Pitts
Traded with Denver and they took Williams
What did we do to **** them off lol
CaneDawgCrew
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I like some of those guys too... But have to tell you this was a frustrating draft to witness because I felt we were always on the defensive and taking the next best choice because we were played.
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HighSeas
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Different players.
Javonte is a power back with limited burst/speed and spotty vision. But he excels creating yards beyond the line of scrimmage with his contact balance and micromovement. Gap/power scheme behind a good OL and he can devastate. If he has to create behind the line and isn't able to build momentum he will struggle.
Carter has elite footwork and vision and excellent receiving skills. He excels in zone schemes but doesn't run with power. He also got exposed in pass protection at the Senior Bowl.
streetja
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Huge fan of this draft. Surprised to see the pushback the Waddle decision is getting on here. The biggest set back on offense was the lack of weapons and explosiveness. Prioritizing that over yes, a special talent like Sewell, was warranted. Also, look at how the board ended up. Should we have passed on Waddle and stuck with Phillips we would’ve missed out on Moore, Toney, Bateman by the 35th pick in a tackle heavy draft.
The Phillips pick is a blessing given our anemic pass rush when not sending the houseand the Holland pick is the most exciting. Miami gave up a lot of big plays through the air last season so to have a CF type player roaming the back end fills a gigantic need. Now add the fact that he can play Nickel and even cover TEs and we’re dealing with a potential major playmaker.
Know nothing about Eichenberg. Agree he looks stiff in the exactly 10 second highlight reel I’ve seen of him. How do ND OL typically fare in the league? If he can live up to be serviceable I think that’s a major win given what we saw from the rookie OL last year and the increase in talent on offense that will lessen the burden on the OL.
All in all a really good feeling over this Dolphins team after this weekend until I remember it’s Tua we’re banking on
The Phillips pick is a blessing given our anemic pass rush when not sending the houseand the Holland pick is the most exciting. Miami gave up a lot of big plays through the air last season so to have a CF type player roaming the back end fills a gigantic need. Now add the fact that he can play Nickel and even cover TEs and we’re dealing with a potential major playmaker.
Know nothing about Eichenberg. Agree he looks stiff in the exactly 10 second highlight reel I’ve seen of him. How do ND OL typically fare in the league? If he can live up to be serviceable I think that’s a major win given what we saw from the rookie OL last year and the increase in talent on offense that will lessen the burden on the OL.
All in all a really good feeling over this Dolphins team after this weekend until I remember it’s Tua we’re banking on
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Fins get a high grade from just about everyone
Lance Roffers
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You’re one of my favorite posters to read because we always see things so differently. I mean that sincerely.
I liked Doaks- for Miami- better than potentially any RB taken on day three. That kid is tough, has excellent contact balance, and is smart.
He’s also probably the best pass blocking RB in the draft. He’s excellent out of the backfield as a receiver. Great on angle routes (think Edwards-Helaire on that route). He has juice for that size.
To me, he’s a Javonte-lite and will make this team. I liked Kylin Hill, but he doesn’t have the speed of Doaks.
Every pick made was sound process to me. I would’ve taken different players in a few spots, but I don’t think you can argue with the fits.
In my opinion, you really shouldn’t take a RB before day three, even the very best do not move the needle much.
Matt Skura was a player I really liked in 2018. In 2020 he wasn’t as good and was hurt in 2019. Some risk there, but I can see why they like the Tom guy from the Saints and Deiter another year to look at C.
The roster build continues upward for Miami.
HighSeas
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I don't disagree with your evaluation I just see the projection differently. I agree that he's well-built with good speed especially on flat routes out of the backfield. He gets to the sideline quickly and does an efficient job of catching and rotating to work upfield. When he has a crease he can explode downhill and cover ground in a hurry. I definitely see the traits to be a good pass protector but Rhamondre Stevenson is better at it imo.
I agree with your Javonte-lite comparison but I view that as more of a negative. Both have issues with vision and footwork behind the line of scrimmage. Doaks especially struggles in that area as he has some stiffness and it takes him a while to get lateral both from a quickness and a footwork (too many steps) standpoint. In a gap scheme you can mitigate those concerns. What makes Javonte better is his body control in his lower half where he can use micromovement to reduce his frame on contact. He's way more elusive than Doaks who pretty much just runs into contact and falls forward a bit. I'd much rather have Doaks in the 7th than Javonte in an early 2nd trade up though.
So having said all that the process does make sense to take him in the 7th where it's fine value to get a pass protector and gap-scheme short-yardage guy. Maybe he takes Laird's roster spot and brings more juice. There's also the special teams factor which often drives late-round picks and I'm sure was a major factor here. The RBs I preferred don't really project as special teamers due to lack of size and/or speed but Doaks has the speed for it.
Thanks for the response cause I hadn't thought about it the way you presented it. And thanks for breaking down line play with your UFR series because I'll never have the patience to go through it on the TV copy.
Everyone saying we gave up a 1st and a 3rd for Waddle are dead wrong. Miami wanted out of 3 but not out of the top ten so they moved to 6 and got a 2023 first rounder and 2022 third rounder. That is why the two trades happened at the same time. Ignore moving to 12 first. It would be different if we moved up to 6 on draft day after seeing who was still on the board. If Miami moved from 3 to 6 and the pick would have been Waddle, no one would have said they made a bad deal. The only grip would be if you feel like they should have stayed at 3 and picked Pitts or Chase.
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Lance Roffers
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You’ve always gotta view a draft in totality.
Few people are as guilty of the instant, in-the-moment reaction as I am. I need to put my phone away in the moment because I often look back at tweets and think that was stupid, Lance.
Miami really put together a plan to get needs, but also good players at the right spots, at the right positions.
I could talk about the draft, team building philosophy, and how decisions are made all day long. My perspective tends to be quite a bit different than general fans, and Miami really seems to share a lot of my viewpoints. Which I love, of course, because we tend to project our thought processes onto our teams and judge their decisions based on those perspectives.
Few people are as guilty of the instant, in-the-moment reaction as I am. I need to put my phone away in the moment because I often look back at tweets and think that was stupid, Lance.
Miami really put together a plan to get needs, but also good players at the right spots, at the right positions.
I could talk about the draft, team building philosophy, and how decisions are made all day long. My perspective tends to be quite a bit different than general fans, and Miami really seems to share a lot of my viewpoints. Which I love, of course, because we tend to project our thought processes onto our teams and judge their decisions based on those perspectives.
i made my feelings known about waddle at 6 earlier in this thread. i've made peace with it ... if he's the kind of game breaking freak everyone says he is and he can catch a slant and blow past LBs and safeties for 60, 70 yard TDs the pick will likely have been worth it. he needs to have some odell beckham to his game, bringing explosiveness to an offense where the QB isn't consistently pushing the ball downfield. i want to see him do damage on RPOs -- if he's used in the henry ruggs role it will have been a failed pick.
putting that aside, i love that this draft hit one theme consistently: athletes. i think this is the first dolphins draft i can remember where there seemed to be an organizing principle to the picks of getting more athletic with every selection. and they were able to do so without compromising on production. who knows if all of these guys will work out, but when you can consistently hit the combination of drafting highly athletic players who were also very productive in college, i'm not going to find much to criticize.
phillips brings a unique skillset to the defense and athleticism on the DL that we haven't seen since jason taylor. i liked holland given his athleticism, production, and the emphasis on DB in flores' system -- we should constantly be replenishing the secondary and not resting on guys like rowe, mccain, brandon jones. if igbinoghene is a player we will have really turned the dial up on the athleticism in the secondary. i won't pretend to be an expert on OL scouting but i like that eichenberg can really move his feet per his testing -- i might have taken cosmi or radunz, but i definitely prefer eichenberg to walker little and carmon so i think grier played that run of tackles well. the price to move up will be worth it if eichenberg is an above average starter. long is another productive athlete and i think given tua's skillset it makes sense to keeping looking for good tight ends.
as others have mentioned, this draft will hinge on whether waddle + eichenberg is a better combo than sewell + second round WR. personally, i don't think elijah moore, rondale moore, tutu atwell will be impact guys in the NFL given their size, so for me it's a question of whether waddle outplays guys like terrace marshall jr, josh palmer, dyami brown etc. i would still choose sewell + marshall or brown but i don't think it's a completely obvious choice. the dolphins had a plan going into the draft of taking a WR from tier one and a tackle from tier two and they executed it -- it goes against my understanding of value but i think can still work out given the players involved.
overall, the last two drafts feel like the best the dolphins have done in talent acquisition in a really, really long time. and if they want to move on from tua they should be in a position to do what the niners did and cash in future draft capital for a higher ceiling prospect knowing they have built out the infrastructure around him, or perhaps be in the market for a star level veteran QB given the location and ross' ability/willingness to invest in the team.
putting that aside, i love that this draft hit one theme consistently: athletes. i think this is the first dolphins draft i can remember where there seemed to be an organizing principle to the picks of getting more athletic with every selection. and they were able to do so without compromising on production. who knows if all of these guys will work out, but when you can consistently hit the combination of drafting highly athletic players who were also very productive in college, i'm not going to find much to criticize.
phillips brings a unique skillset to the defense and athleticism on the DL that we haven't seen since jason taylor. i liked holland given his athleticism, production, and the emphasis on DB in flores' system -- we should constantly be replenishing the secondary and not resting on guys like rowe, mccain, brandon jones. if igbinoghene is a player we will have really turned the dial up on the athleticism in the secondary. i won't pretend to be an expert on OL scouting but i like that eichenberg can really move his feet per his testing -- i might have taken cosmi or radunz, but i definitely prefer eichenberg to walker little and carmon so i think grier played that run of tackles well. the price to move up will be worth it if eichenberg is an above average starter. long is another productive athlete and i think given tua's skillset it makes sense to keeping looking for good tight ends.
as others have mentioned, this draft will hinge on whether waddle + eichenberg is a better combo than sewell + second round WR. personally, i don't think elijah moore, rondale moore, tutu atwell will be impact guys in the NFL given their size, so for me it's a question of whether waddle outplays guys like terrace marshall jr, josh palmer, dyami brown etc. i would still choose sewell + marshall or brown but i don't think it's a completely obvious choice. the dolphins had a plan going into the draft of taking a WR from tier one and a tackle from tier two and they executed it -- it goes against my understanding of value but i think can still work out given the players involved.
overall, the last two drafts feel like the best the dolphins have done in talent acquisition in a really, really long time. and if they want to move on from tua they should be in a position to do what the niners did and cash in future draft capital for a higher ceiling prospect knowing they have built out the infrastructure around him, or perhaps be in the market for a star level veteran QB given the location and ross' ability/willingness to invest in the team.
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CaneDawgCrew
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You make some assumptions. Not everybody is happy we took Waddle at 6. If you think of it as draft night and we are at 12 with Waddle on the board we did indeed give up our 12th, another first round draft pick, and I think a 4th to move up and take him. I hope he is worth 2 first rounders because that is what we gave up or let's just call it 'spent' on him. Should have stayed at 12 and maybe he is still available, or Smith, or Parsons, or Slater and you still have two number ones the next two drafts.
I wanted to move down but when we went up I thought for sure it was for Sewell. No brainer. They do that then they don't blow a 3rd round pick again acquired moving out of 3rd pick to just move up 8 little spots and take a tackle because they got nervous.
We don't let MF walk we don't have to draft a safety.
I have no idea who is right. I see we got some great grades from the "experts". Me, no faith in Grier and thought it could have been much better. If these picks are all pros I will be excited I was wrong.
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HighSeas
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I think the point Lance is making is that the Dolphins are executing a team-building process not just trying to draft the "best talents". Their vision offensively is to have a strong run game with RPOs and play action to speed guys who threaten a defense downfield. Waddle is the centerpiece of that vision with his special ability to carry his speed through cuts and accelerate after the catch, plus he can adjust to off target throws and make plays in traffic.
Defensively the Belichick system has always been about versatility, intelligence and scheme fits over any individual. The priority was to get long cover corners and now they're filling in the rest. Beyond that you want guys who will make the roster so special teams is weighed heavily with later round picks.
I don't think it's fair to grade each pick individually based on who was available. You have to take the holistic/synergistic approach judging how much better the team is and whether there are glaring holes evident come game days.
The best example of this is the Rams drafting Atwell in the 2nd then a bunch of special teams guys on Day 3. Atwell was far from the best WR available and personally I think it was a disastrous pick but they obviously believe that he brings a speed and playmaking dimension on jet sweeps and deep shots that will completely open up their offense. I think Jaelon Darden is a better player and he went in the 4th round but if their Atwell theory works then who cares? And with the special teams guys I think it's poor allocation of resources but if their starters stay healthy and perform then it worked out.
It's better to draft with a plan than to draft players and figure out the rest later. Or worse draft bad players with no plan like the Raiders have been doing (and Bucs did under Gruden).
CaneDawgCrew
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Bottom line...I am much smarter than you so you must be wrong lol. You ever watch the Princess Bride one of my favorite phrases is something like "Unless I am wrong and I am never wrong".
We are just a little different on views and I hope you are spot on! WR traditionally has been more miss than hit in round 1 and we could have grabbed the tackle and then let's say Moore from Ole Miss in Round 2. We also then lose no other draft picks. We also had to trade back up for a tackle that looks stiff to me.
On that tackle...I kid you not a few picks later a ND Guard was taken and I said what the **** did I just see. I went back and then took a video of our tackle we just moved up for falling to the ground in a video they had for the guard. I hope that was a fluke but maybe I will put it on here it was unreal.
Games are won in the trenches and we passed on the best.
Once again though you are looking at it as if we moved up from 12 to draft Waddle at 6. We did not. We moved back to 6 and ended up selecting Waddle because they felt he was the best at that spot. Making the trade with SF to 12 was just the way to move to 6. I actually thought it was a smart way to get what you wanted. If you can't find someone to trade with for the spot you want, make two trades to get there and still get additional draft collateral.
CaneDawgCrew
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Is Waddle the first receiver ever worth 2 first round draft picks and a 4th? The reason is irrelevant because we did move up to 6th and took Waddle. We, in my opinion, moved back up to 6th thinking that Pitts or Chase would be there. All that to move up should be reserved for QB or OT...And the tackle was there.
Grier has been in Miami a while and while some say the jury is out I am not one of them because in essence he has Howard to show for it.
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