• Attention: Register today to view CanesInSight Ad-Free for 7 days.

NFL Dolphins draft plan

HighSeas

Sophomore
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4,604
You make some assumptions. Not everybody is happy we took Waddle at 6. If you think of it as draft night and we are at 12 with Waddle on the board we did indeed give up our 12th, another first round draft pick, and I think a 4th to move up and take him. I hope he is worth 2 first rounders because that is what we gave up or let's just call it 'spent' on him. Should have stayed at 12 and maybe he is still available, or Smith, or Parsons, or Slater and you still have two number ones the next two drafts.

I wanted to move down but when we went up I thought for sure it was for Sewell. No brainer. They do that then they don't blow a 3rd round pick again acquired moving out of 3rd pick to just move up 8 little spots and take a tackle because they got nervous.

We don't let MF walk we don't have to draft a safety.

I have no idea who is right. I see we got some great grades from the "experts". Me, no faith in Grier and thought it could have been much better. If these picks are all pros I will be excited I was wrong.
I think the point Lance is making is that the Dolphins are executing a team-building process not just trying to draft the "best talents". Their vision offensively is to have a strong run game with RPOs and play action to speed guys who threaten a defense downfield. Waddle is the centerpiece of that vision with his special ability to carry his speed through cuts and accelerate after the catch, plus he can adjust to off target throws and make plays in traffic.

Defensively the Belichick system has always been about versatility, intelligence and scheme fits over any individual. The priority was to get long cover corners and now they're filling in the rest. Beyond that you want guys who will make the roster so special teams is weighed heavily with later round picks.

I don't think it's fair to grade each pick individually based on who was available. You have to take the holistic/synergistic approach judging how much better the team is and whether there are glaring holes evident come game days.

The best example of this is the Rams drafting Atwell in the 2nd then a bunch of special teams guys on Day 3. Atwell was far from the best WR available and personally I think it was a disastrous pick but they obviously believe that he brings a speed and playmaking dimension on jet sweeps and deep shots that will completely open up their offense. I think Jaelon Darden is a better player and he went in the 4th round but if their Atwell theory works then who cares? And with the special teams guys I think it's poor allocation of resources but if their starters stay healthy and perform then it worked out.

It's better to draft with a plan than to draft players and figure out the rest later. Or worse draft bad players with no plan like the Raiders have been doing (and Bucs did under Gruden).
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
I think the point Lance is making is that the Dolphins are executing a team-building process not just trying to draft the "best talents". Their vision offensively is to have a strong run game with RPOs and play action to speed guys who threaten a defense downfield. Waddle is the centerpiece of that vision with his special ability to carry his speed through cuts and accelerate after the catch, plus he can adjust to off target throws and make plays in traffic.

Defensively the Belichick system has always been about versatility, intelligence and scheme fits over any individual. The priority was to get long cover corners and now they're filling in the rest. Beyond that you want guys who will make the roster so special teams is weighed heavily with later round picks.

I don't think it's fair to grade each pick individually based on who was available. You have to take the holistic/synergistic approach judging how much better the team is and whether there are glaring holes evident come game days.

The best example of this is the Rams drafting Atwell in the 2nd then a bunch of special teams guys on Day 3. Atwell was far from the best WR available and personally I think it was a disastrous pick but they obviously believe that he brings a speed and playmaking dimension on jet sweeps and deep shots that will completely open up their offense. I think Jaelon Darden is a better player and he went in the 4th round but if their Atwell theory works then who cares? And with the special teams guys I think it's poor allocation of resources but if their starters stay healthy and perform then it worked out.

It's better to draft with a plan than to draft players and figure out the rest later. Or worse draft bad players with no plan like the Raiders have been doing (and Bucs did under Gruden).
Bottom line...I am much smarter than you so you must be wrong lol. You ever watch the Princess Bride one of my favorite phrases is something like "Unless I am wrong and I am never wrong".

We are just a little different on views and I hope you are spot on! WR traditionally has been more miss than hit in round 1 and we could have grabbed the tackle and then let's say Moore from Ole Miss in Round 2. We also then lose no other draft picks. We also had to trade back up for a tackle that looks stiff to me.

On that tackle...I kid you not a few picks later a ND Guard was taken and I said what the hell did I just see. I went back and then took a video of our tackle we just moved up for falling to the ground in a video they had for the guard. I hope that was a fluke but maybe I will put it on here it was unreal.

Games are won in the trenches and we passed on the best.
 

HTXCane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
206
You make some assumptions. Not everybody is happy we took Waddle at 6. If you think of it as draft night and we are at 12 with Waddle on the board we did indeed give up our 12th, another first round draft pick, and I think a 4th to move up and take him. I hope he is worth 2 first rounders because that is what we gave up or let's just call it 'spent' on him. Should have stayed at 12 and maybe he is still available, or Smith, or Parsons, or Slater and you still have two number ones the next two drafts.

I wanted to move down but when we went up I thought for sure it was for Sewell. No brainer. They do that then they don't blow a 3rd round pick again acquired moving out of 3rd pick to just move up 8 little spots and take a tackle because they got nervous.

We don't let MF walk we don't have to draft a safety.

I have no idea who is right. I see we got some great grades from the "experts". Me, no faith in Grier and thought it could have been much better. If these picks are all pros I will be excited I was wrong.
Once again though you are looking at it as if we moved up from 12 to draft Waddle at 6. We did not. We moved back to 6 and ended up selecting Waddle because they felt he was the best at that spot. Making the trade with SF to 12 was just the way to move to 6. I actually thought it was a smart way to get what you wanted. If you can't find someone to trade with for the spot you want, make two trades to get there and still get additional draft collateral.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
Once again though you are looking at it as if we moved up from 12 to draft Waddle at 6. We did not. We moved back to 6 and ended up selecting Waddle because they felt he was the best at that spot. Making the trade with SF to 12 was just the way to move to 6. I actually thought it was a smart way to get what you wanted. If you can't find someone to trade with for the spot you want, make two trades to get there and still get additional draft collateral.
Is Waddle the first receiver ever worth 2 first round draft picks and a 4th? The reason is irrelevant because we did move up to 6th and took Waddle. We, in my opinion, moved back up to 6th thinking that Pitts or Chase would be there. All that to move up should be reserved for QB or OT...And the tackle was there.

Grier has been in Miami a while and while some say the jury is out I am not one of them because in essence he has Howard to show for it.
 

HTXCane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
206
Is Waddle the first receiver ever worth 2 first round draft picks and a 4th? The reason is irrelevant because we did move up to 6th and took Waddle. We, in my opinion, moved back up to 6th thinking that Pitts or Chase would be there. All that to move up should be reserved for QB or OT...And the tackle was there.

Grier has been in Miami a while and while some say the jury is out I am not one of them because in essence he has Howard to show for it.
No but is Waddle worth moving out of 3(passing on Pitts and Chase) and picking up a 1st and 3rd is the really question you should be asking because what you are saying did not happen. The 12th pick is an imaginary pick because they would never had made the trade to 12 if they didn't have Denver willing to move out of the 6 spot. This is no different than a 3 team trade in the NBA. You don't look at what the other players in the trade were because they were irrelevant.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
No but is Waddle worth moving out of 3(passing on Pitts and Chase) and picking up a 1st and 3rd is the really question you should be asking because what you are saying did not happen.
Yes stay at 12 if it means picking between Smith, Parsons, or NW tackle. So it cost us nothing to move into position to draft somebody at 6. Philly those dudes not only make great cheesesteaks but they are super generous.
 

HTXCane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
206
Yes stay at 12 if it means picking between Smith, Parsons, or NW tackle. So it cost us nothing to move into position to draft somebody at 6. Philly those dudes not only make great cheesesteaks but they are super generous.

How do you know any of those guys are sitting at 12 if we stayed there? If Philly stays at 6, every pick from 6-11 could be completely different. Who is Philly taking at 6 that affects other teams? Do they pick Smith still at 6 or do they pick Sewell? Dallas traded back with Philly to 12 to pick Parsons. Do they still trade back or stay at 10 and pick him there? You can't just assume all the picks stay the same as they were.

And I guess you will never understand why and how the trade went down so I guess I will stop trying.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
How do you know any of those guys are sitting at 12 if we stayed there? If Philly stays at 6, every pick from 6-11 could be completely different. Who is Philly taking at 6 that affects other teams? Do they pick Smith still at 6 or do they pick Sewell? Dallas traded back with Philly to 12 to pick Parsons. Do they still trade back or stay at 10 and pick him there? You can't just assume all the picks stay the same as they were.

And I guess you will never understand why and how the trade went down so I guess I will stop trying.
You never know who would have been there which is why I just named 4. Not giving up a future 1st rounder though that is for certain. It would appear there are quite a few others as well thinking we had to give up a little something something...

Analysis: Well, one thing is certainly clear: The NFL hasn’t lost its love of pure, blazing speed. Waddle brings plenty of it, possessing the field-tilting explosiveness and playmaking talent to score every time he touches the ball. I love the Crimson Tide star’s fit with the Dolphins, too. He’ll mesh well with DeVante Parker, Will Fuller V, and Mike Gesicki in the team’s passing game, giving quarterback Tua Tagovailoa a familiar face to throw to downfield. But when factoring in the price Miami paid to move back up from no. 12 to no. 6 to make this pick (mainly a future first-rounder), I don’t love the value here. Waddle, who lacks size, is coming off a major ankle injury that forced him to miss most of the 2020 season, and ranks lower than Heisman winner DeVonta Smith on my board. Waddle will need to turn into an unguardable go-to guy and true no. 1 in the Dolphins offense to justify this price. Grade: B-

SHEIL KAPADIA, The Athletic
Analysis: A broken ankle limited him to six games last season, but when Waddle was on the field, he produced (106 catches for 1,999 yards and 17 touchdowns in three seasons). In many ways, he is a Tyreek Hill clone with elite speed and acceleration. Tua Tagovailoa now has DeVante Parker, Will Fuller and Waddle to throw to in 2021. That supporting cast will allow Miami to properly evaluate its second-year quarterback. It’s fair to question whether the Dolphins should have traded up to six from 12 for Waddle, given what they had to give up. But Waddle is a perfectly reasonable use of resources at this spot. Grade: B
 

BoxingRobes

Junior
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
7,195
The trading down and then back up adds a bit of an asterisks next to the Dolphins draft. But, its a little more complicated than "they traded an extra R1 pick to get Waddle"...the moves they made need to be in combination. They dropped from 3 to 6 for a R1 pick in 2023 and a 3rd in 2022 and 5th this year.

Whats worth more...

Pitts and nothing more.
Waddle + R1 2023, R3 in 2022, and R5 in 2021
Not Waddle / Not Pitts + R1 2022, R1 2023, R3 2021
 

HTXCane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
206
The trading down and then back up adds a bit of an asterisks next to the Dolphins draft. But, its a little more complicated than "they traded an extra R1 pick to get Waddle"...the moves they made need to be in combination. They dropped from 3 to 6 for a R1 pick in 2023 and a 3rd in 2022 and 5th this year.

Whats worth more...

Pitts and nothing more.
Waddle + R1 2023, R3 in 2022, and R5 in 2021
Not Waddle / Not Pitts + R1 2022, R1 2023, R3 2021
Exactly.

Plus we gave Philly our 2022 R1 not SFs. If they decide to go with Lance this year, that pick could be pretty good.
 

HighSeas

Sophomore
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4,604
Bottom line...I am much smarter than you so you must be wrong lol. You ever watch the Princess Bride one of my favorite phrases is something like "Unless I am wrong and I am never wrong".

We are just a little different on views and I hope you are spot on! WR traditionally has been more miss than hit in round 1 and we could have grabbed the tackle and then let's say Moore from Ole Miss in Round 2. We also then lose no other draft picks. We also had to trade back up for a tackle that looks stiff to me.

On that tackle...I kid you not a few picks later a ND Guard was taken and I said what the hell did I just see. I went back and then took a video of our tackle we just moved up for falling to the ground in a video they had for the guard. I hope that was a fluke but maybe I will put it on here it was unreal.

Games are won in the trenches and we passed on the best.
Actually I'm more of your mindset that you draft the best players and build around them. I'm just rationalizing the Dolphins process.

The Dolphins didn't know Elijah would be available in round 2. The Jets would've taken him at 23 if they weren't able to trade up for AVT.

This circles back to my point where if you evaluate them independent of scheme there isn't a huge gap between Waddle and Moore, but when you zero in on glance routes and post routes Waddle is way superior at those. The Dolphins are committed to Tua so they're living in a world where they need athletes who can make plays on schemed looks. They don't care if a WR is great at separating on option routes and settling into zones and doing all the stuff that's useful for a QB with anticipation and progression skills that Tua doesn't have.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
The trading down and then back up adds a bit of an asterisks next to the Dolphins draft. But, its a little more complicated than "they traded an extra R1 pick to get Waddle"...the moves they made need to be in combination. They dropped from 3 to 6 for a R1 pick in 2023 and a 3rd in 2022 and 5th this year.

Whats worth more...

Pitts and nothing more.
Waddle + R1 2023, R3 in 2022, and R5 in 2021
Not Waddle / Not Pitts + R1 2022, R1 2023, R3 2021
No, it didn't happen that way and I am not going to explain it to you. Maybe you explained it better because HTX says 'Exactly'.

You left one out and that is Sewell. Drafting Sewell allows us to keep a future 3rd we acquired then flushed down the toilet moving up 8 spots. What we gave up to move back to 6 is a lot for Sewell as well but I would have felt better on using that capital on OT or a QB but not a small receiver, especially if you value what history has to say on the WR position and where they should be picked in a draft. Wouldn't draft RB at 6 either.

I didn't want to trade back down so far but I am in red above simply because we have a lot of question marks on a roster that is looking increasingly better. I want as many top 30/50 draft picks as possible in future drafts so I would have stayed at 12 and picked Slater or highest player on my board I had dreams at night about.

At the least...sit at 12 until draft night and see how the board is playing out.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
Actually I'm more of your mindset that you draft the best players and build around them. I'm just rationalizing the Dolphins process.

The Dolphins didn't know Elijah would be available in round 2. The Jets would've taken him at 23 if they weren't able to trade up for AVT.

This circles back to my point where if you evaluate them independent of scheme there isn't a huge gap between Waddle and Moore, but when you zero in on glance routes and post routes Waddle is way superior at those. The Dolphins are committed to Tua so they're living in a world where they need athletes who can make plays on schemed looks. They don't care if a WR is great at separating on option routes and settling into zones and doing all the stuff that's useful for a QB with anticipation and progression skills that Tua doesn't have.
In order to develop anticipation and progression skills you need time in the pocket. Chargers drafted Slater. Jets moved up to protect their new QB. We waited on OT until the Bears I believe moved in front of us for Jenkins who we passed on earlier in round 2 for a safety we needed because we gave our All Pro away to Pittsburgh for a lesser draft pick than we picked him at.

WR historically are better found later in drafts. OT and Center were a position of huge need but I guess we can just keep signing journeyman players to one year contracts.
 

BoxingRobes

Junior
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
7,195
No, it didn't happen that way and I am not going to explain it to you. Maybe you explained it better because HTX says 'Exactly'.

You left one out and that is Sewell. Drafting Sewell allows us to keep a future 3rd we acquired then flushed down the toilet moving up 8 spots. What we gave up to move back to 6 is a lot for Sewell as well but I would have felt better on using that capital on OT or a QB but not a small receiver, especially if you value what history has to say on the WR position and where they should be picked in a draft. Wouldn't draft RB at 6 either.

I didn't want to trade back down so far but I am in red above simply because we have a lot of question marks on a roster that is looking increasingly better. I want as many top 30/50 draft picks as possible in future drafts so I would have stayed at 12 and picked Slater or highest player on my board I had dreams at night about.

At the least...sit at 12 until draft night and see how the board is playing out.

Sewell wouldn't have been there at 12 either.

The reality is...they were interested in a playmaker. Pitts or Waddle were the long rumored players of interest.

If you want to say "they should have drafted Sewell"...ok, but thats a different discussion than the value the Dolphins "gave up" for Waddle. Those two trades happened on the same day, within...minutes???...maybe an hour or so between them. "They gave up a first rounder for Waddle" is a pretty disingenuous take was what I was responding to.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
Exactly.

Plus we gave Philly our 2022 R1 not SFs. If they decide to go with Lance this year, that pick could be pretty good.
IMO SF is a better football team than we are. Not close (yet).

They were decimated by injuries last year especially on the defensive side of the ball. They have excellent WR group and drafted Sermon I believe and we all know who Kittle is. This pick could quite easily become a pick in the 26-29 range which is what it is but if we go backwards next year which seems to be our tradition then it will be painful to watch Philly picking in our slot.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
Sewell wouldn't have been there at 12 either.

The reality is...they were interested in a playmaker. Pitts or Waddle were the long rumored players of interest.

If you want to say "they should have drafted Sewell"...ok, but thats a different discussion than the value the Dolphins "gave up" for Waddle. Those two trades happened on the same day, within...minutes???...maybe an hour or so between them. "They gave up a first rounder for Waddle" is a pretty disingenuous take was what I was responding to.
Waddle and Grier will be judged on what was given up to select him at 6 as compared to all other options such as staying at 3, or all the picks given up to select him at 6. I actually think we should have drafted Sewell at 3 or 6, but would have been ok with Pitts at 3 just because he is a freak and a mismatch nightmare.

Fair or not...That is what will be looked at. Whoever was taken at 6 would have been judged by what was given up. Everyone playing games coming to Waddle's defense and nothing disingenuous about it... Dolphins gave up multiple picks, including a future first rounder, for whoever was picked at 6 and that player will be judged on what was given up. I believe, and I think we can agree, that player was Waddle.

The other unfortunate thing, and I don't think it is fair, is that Waddle will also be compared to Chase and Pitts because had we done nothing we wouldn't have selected Waddle but either/or on the above.
 

rayray

Sophomore
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,062
In order to develop anticipation and progression skills you need time in the pocket. Chargers drafted Slater. Jets moved up to protect their new QB. We waited on OT until the Bears I believe moved in front of us for Jenkins who we passed on earlier in round 2 for a safety we needed because we gave our All Pro away to Pittsburgh for a lesser draft pick than we picked him at.

WR historically are better found later in drafts. OT and Center were a position of huge need but I guess we can just keep signing journeyman players to one year contracts.
but they did use the pick acquired in the fitzpatrick trade to take a LT, who if he turns out to be an above average starter makes that a pretty good swap from the standpoint of positional value. plus, if they had kept fitzpatrick then who knows what they do to address LT in last year's draft... it's hard to start untangling all these moves. this post also leaves out the picks of hunt and kindley who look like hits.

i would have taken sewell personally, and i prob would've taken creed humphery over holland. so i don't disagree with you about the importance of the positions. but at the end of the day the dolphins traded a first round safety for a first round pick they used on a LT, and traded a third to move up in the second round to take a RT -- if both players can anchor their spots for 5 years, those are cheap prices to pay for stability at those positions. now it just comes down to whether they picked the right guys and can develop them properly.
 

HighSeas

Sophomore
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4,604
IMO SF is a better football team than we are. Not close (yet).

They were decimated by injuries last year especially on the defensive side of the ball. They have excellent WR group and drafted Sermon I believe and we all know who Kittle is. This pick could quite easily become a pick in the 26-29 range which is what it is but if we go backwards next year which seems to be our tradition then it will be painful to watch Philly picking in our slot.
Trey Lance + strong supporting cast is tough to beat. He runs the ball, gets the ball out underneath, doesn't turn the ball over and can throw it over the top. That's a winning formula. RG3 was 9-6 as a rookie under Shanahan and this is a better team with a better prospect.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
694
Trey Lance + strong supporting cast is tough to beat. He runs the ball, gets the ball out underneath, doesn't turn the ball over and can throw it over the top. That's a winning formula. RG3 was 9-6 as a rookie under Shanahan and this is a better team with a better prospect.
Could we not have made it conditional? Like, we get the higher draft pick in round 1? Tua better be it because it will be probably two years before we are in a position to do anything about it now

To be fair I am just not a fan of Grier and maybe it is clouding my judgment.
 
Top