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mirvin88 said:
Stand up guy for throwing presumption of innocence out the window.

A couple of kids with no legal help are given a choice between community service and courses or the possibility of prison....hmm...
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Youre making a ton of assumptions. How do you know they didnt ask for legal help? How do you know their lawyers didnt look at the evidence and agree they should plea? What seems more likely to you?
 
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CFLCane said:
Youre making a ton of assumptions. How do you know they didnt ask for legal help? How do you know their lawyers didnt look at the evidence and agree they should plea? What seems more likely to you?
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I'm giving possible scenarios. You realize your entire premise here is based on assumption right?
 
For_The_U said:
Valid points. But there is also the possibility that they actually did what they were charged with, right? You seem to be very dismissive of that.
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I haven’t dismissed anything. To the contrary, too many folks here seem to think a plea is proof of guilt, as opposed to proof of the vast coercive power of the state. Anyone who is honest and knowledgeable should know at this point that prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich, as someone famous once said, and can coerce plea deals in the face of egregious threats of decades of torture. When the saudis or Iranians coerce confessions our media condemns them, but it goes on every day in this country with no interest from our political elites.
 
hoops156 said:
so it can't be that they did what they were accused of? its always the system and ASAs stacking the deck against them?
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You sound like you’re bad at trolling. I have not said anything cannot be so, so it’s silly to respond that way. Now, it’s true that the system is always stacked against those charged, but again, that doesn’t mean they are all not guilty.
 
mirvin88 said:
I'm giving possible scenarios. You realize your entire premise here is based on assumption right?
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Its highly probable assumption based on the fact they entered a plea. Any other assumption would be highly impropable by comparison.
 
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CFLCane said:
Most people that accept pleas are guilty in some fashion. Its just math.
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Quite the contrary. The number of arrests going to trial has been diminishing due to favorable pleas and trial penalty. If you're going to say "because math!" you would have to reason that more innocent people are taking pleas in fear of trial and trial penalty because the numbers are reversing.
 
mirvin88 said:
Quite the contrary. The number of arrests going to trial has been diminishing due to favorable pleas and trial penalty. If you're going to say "because math!" you would have to reason that more innocent people are taking pleas in fear of trial and trial penalty because the numbers are reversing.
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It's just as likely that guilty people are taking more pleas and walking amongst us......
 
CFLCane said:
It's just as likely that guilty people are taking more pleas and walking amongst us......
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Now you're saying either case is just as likely when before it was clearly a majority of guilty people "because math". Pick an argument and stick with it man.

Almost all charges end in a plea deal. Almost all cases end with a guilty verdict. It's completely reasonable to assume innocent people take a favorable plea deals all the time when the numbers are stacked against them if they opt for trial. To add, if found guilty at trial on average the penalty handed down is three times the magnitude of the plea that was offered.
 
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mirvin88 said:
Now you're saying either case is just as likely when before it was clearly a majority of guilty people "because math". Pick an argument and stick with it man.

Almost all charges end in a plea deal. Almost all cases end with a guilty verdict. It's completely reasonable it assume innocent people take a favorable plea deal all the time when the numbers are stacked against them if they opt for trial. To add, if found guilty at trial on average the penalty handed down is three times the magnitude of the plea taken.
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Read what i wrote again. The increase in plea deals can apply to both the truly guilty and the truly innocent.

Its completely reasonable to think all guilty rapist would accept plea deals that lessen their sentence......
 
CFLCane said:
Read what i wrote again. The increase in plea deals can apply to both the truly guilty and the truly innocent.

Its completely reasonable to think all guilty rapist would accept plea deals that lessen their sentence......
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Sure but with the "math" both ways you cannot state with any certainty that the majority are guilty as you are.
 
CFLCane said:
But when the two linebackers took the teen back to the dorms, she says, campus security did nothing. The two athletes were reportedly filmed carrying the incapacitated, underage student directly past dorm security, which consisted of what the victim's lawyers say was just one, untrained fellow student.

"Alexander M. Figueroa and JaWand Blue took the minor plaintiff to their room and severely sexually assaulted her and raped her numerous times without her actual or [implied] consent as she was physically helpless to resist and was unaware of what was going to happen and what in fact happened in the Pearson dorm on the campus of the University of Miami," the suit reads.
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The girl came back out and said this didnt happen and all charges were dropped. But Golden was stubborn and would let them back on the team. They went to the police and the coaches before any of this came out.
 
swagsick said:
The girl came back out and said this didnt happen and all charges were dropped. But Golden was stubborn and would let them back on the team. They went to the police and the coaches before any of this came out.
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link?
 
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