Did Mario think ND was out of timeouts at the end?

[TheOriginalCane]

Don't disagree. Just saying I noticed that for both teams injury timeouts werent taken away. Jacobe Thomas gets hurt in the 4th and Miami's TO wasnt taken away. Gray gets hurt same thing..With that being said the injury to Gray happened in the 2nd qtr...

Hang on, let's be very clear.

You are NOT charged for a timeout on every injury.

You are ONLY charged for a timeout IF THE BALL HAS BEEN SPOTTED and then an injury "presents". Thus, if a player is hurt during a play and does not get up, a timeout is NOT charged.

Therefore, it is only when the ball is spotted AND THEN a player suddenly "falls down" or grabs his arm like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack that a timeout would be assessed.

I do find it hard to believe that Mario could have misunderstood this rule, as it would be pretty obvious. It's much more likely that he thought the 2-minute timeout was called by Notre Dame, if there was actually any real confusion at all.

 

[KingCane20]

Hang on, let's be very clear.

You are NOT charged for a timeout on every injury.

You are ONLY charged for a timeout IF THE BALL HAS BEEN SPOTTED and then an injury "presents". Thus, if a player is hurt during a play and does not get up, a timeout is NOT charged.

Therefore, it is only when the ball is spotted AND THEN a player suddenly "falls down" or grabs his arm like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack that a timeout would be assessed.

I do find it hard to believe that Mario could have misunderstood this rule, as it would be pretty obvious. It's much more likely that he thought the 2-minute timeout was called by Notre Dame, if there was actually any real confusion at all.

ok, didnt know that.

 

[JHallCanes]

Dawson addressed this, said he had two plays called. One a "safe pass" the other a run. He chose to run. He said because with no timeouts left. Notre Dame wasnt going to score on this defense with a minute left. He said he goes up against the defense everyday in the two minute drill and said it was likely we'd get a sack with bain and mesidor unleashed. A sack would run at least 30 seconds off the clock.

I don’t have to agree with someone to respect their decision if they take the time to explain

Just nice to have someone actually ask a question that warrants a real answer

 

[Tru C]

I just want yall to know that my family and I are forever greatfull Carter Davis made that field goal because when we handed that ball off on 3rd and 4 to settle for a 47 yard field goal I started googling one way airplane tickets to Miami from Maryland

 

[U_Canes]

Good point. After the grounding, if they had the TO they'd have had :38-9, 2nd & 17 from their own 30. They'd have had time to get set too. Hit a 15-20 yard pass and they conceivably could have attempted a FG, but certainly a hail mary.

Risking a throw on 3rd & 4 to get a 5-10 yard shorter FG and chewing the rest of the clock not as clear cut as I thought. Thanks

To me it comes down to how much faith you have in the kicker. Being he came in 4/11 and our earlier fg’s were a little shaky. Kicking a near 50 yard FG in the rain with the game on the line felt like a 50/50 shot at best. And if we missed they had good field position with a minute left to win it.

If we had more of a sure thing at kicker I’d have felt better. I didn’t think they were likely to drive the length of the field for the TD.

 

[rsa coral gables]

A) theres legit like ZERO chance he doesn't have someone in his ear telling him how many timeouts the opponents have in that situation. Like I could believe he was told hey they have 0 timeouts here, and then he's like just run then....

B) It's entirely possible whoever was checking about timeouts confused an injury or something or a previous stoppage as a timeout used. In fact I feel like i remember an injury to a ND guy late like that and the refs blowing a stoppage, but they specifically didn't take away a timeout, I'm not sure in that moment if they were Supposed to or not though, So I didn't really think anything of it.

C) He was probably just continuiously *****ing the entire drive to be honest. We were getting stuffed. Also if he did think they should have had 1 less this is reason too

D) Who knows, maybe the scoreboard was showing it incorrectly and that's what they were going off of.

Scoreboard in front of him was wrong entrie time during last drive. I was watching it also

 

[pacusmc]

Doesn't fit the narrative.

Huge problem with society right now. People rather be right and burn their own house down, than be wrong and keep living in it.
They also can’t wait to jump on social media and validate their intelligence or morality. Virtue signaling, FOMO, and clout chasing has become an epidemic.

Biggest win in this program’s history over 20 years and people just can’t wait to jump on and talk about Mario’s coaching because it’s the hill they’ve chosen to die on.

ND just went to the final game and their entire fanbase and the media is saying they got out coached. The team that everyone penciled in as a playoff shoe in with “waves of talent on the 2 deep”.

The only people saying that they didn’t get out coached are our fans and the people who have said Freeman can put in their …
Dudes have bruised knees and talk about him like he’s the Saban.

I was upset and posted in the 4th. “Call plays like a btch and you’ll get fckd like one” and that was an emotional response.

In retrospect:

The most experienced and proven unit on that field was the Notre dame secondary. The unit with the least experience and least amount of time playing together was our passing attack.
The most experienced and proven concept on our team was the running game.

Mario would’ve gotten destroyed if we turned the ball over in the 4th cause we threw it.

“Why go away from the run game when they haven’t stopped you all night”

“Why attack the opposition’s strongest unit”

“Why put the game on the shoulders of a dude coming off of a surgery”

Whatever notre dame fans are saying about their staff would be exponentially worse from our fanbase and the haters.

 

[407cane]

watch the press conference

 

[DTP]

Good point. After the grounding, if they had the TO they'd have had :38-9, 2nd & 17 from their own 30. They'd have had time to get set too. Hit a 15-20 yard pass and they conceivably could have attempted a FG, but certainly a hail mary.

Risking a throw on 3rd & 4 to get a 5-10 yard shorter FG and chewing the rest of the clock not as clear cut as I thought. Thanks

I wasn’t as confident in our ability to convert that 3rd and 4 as other people. If we call a pass play and it’s incomplete, you’re giving Notre Dame a timeout to set up a field goal attempt. If we call a pass play and take a sack. We’re hoping for overtime.

It’s all semantics at this point and just a fun discussion but the way the refs were allowing their DBs to manhandle our receivers, I wasn’t confident that we could easily get that first down.

 

[ben]

 

[rsa coral gables]

Huge problem with society right now. People rather be right and burn their own house down, than be wrong and keep living in it.
They also can’t wait to jump on social media and validate their intelligence or morality. Virtue signaling, FOMO, and clout chasing has become an epidemic.

Biggest win in this program’s history over 20 years and people just can’t wait to jump on and talk about Mario’s coaching because it’s the hill they’ve chosen to die on.

ND just went to the final game and their entire fanbase and the media is saying they got out coached. The team that everyone penciled in as a playoff shoe in with “waves of talent on the 2 deep”.

The only people saying that they didn’t get out coached are our fans and the people who have said Freeman can put in their …
Dudes have bruised knees and talk about him like he’s the Saban.

I was upset and posted in the 4th. “Call plays like a btch and you’ll get fckd like one” and that was an emotional response.

In retrospect:

The most experienced and proven unit on that field was the Notre dame secondary. The unit with the least experience and least amount of time playing together was our passing attack.
The most experienced and proven concept on our team was the running game.

Mario would’ve gotten destroyed if we turned the ball over in the 4th cause we threw it.

“Why go away from the run game when they haven’t stopped you all night”

“Why attack the opposition’s strongest unit”

“Why put the game on the shoulders of a dude coming off of a surgery”

Whatever notre dame fans are saying about their staff would be exponentially worse from our fanbase and the haters.

ABSOLUTE TRUTHS RIGHT HERE

 

[TheOriginalCane]

OK, I have watched the final drive again on TV.

No injuries before the 2-minute timeout. Granted, TV cuts away to replays and whatnot, but it does not look like the clock stopped before the 2-minute timeout EXCEPT FOR the pass interference penalty and one incompletion.

Then, as the clock approached 2 minutes, you can see a player down on the ground. This was BEFORE the ball was spotted, but perhaps the refs didn't see it. This is the guy that I remember, the TV angle is from the "home" side of the field, but I saw things from the "away" side. So there WAS a player down for a moment, and there WAS a clock stoppage. However, it was definitely the 2-minute timeout.

Then, after the clock started again, we ran once to get the first, then we ran on first down where the FIRST timeout was called at 1:19. Furthermore, the ref announced it as "Notre Dame's first timeout". Then we ran again for no gain and the 2nd timeout was taken at 1:14. Not only did the ref announce it as "Notre Dame's second timeout", it was also announced as the 30-second timeout. Clearly, the Miami coaches got THAT bit of information correct, so they must have heard the ref announce it.

Finally, the third timeout is called at 1:08. This is the first time that Mario gets animated.. He didn't seem to be bothered when the ref announced ND's first and second timeouts. So what are the options:

1. Maybe Mario thought there "should have been" a timeout assessed for a fake ND injury BEFORE Miami's final scoring drive. If someone knows WHEN this happened, I would be happy to review it. Let's say it happened in the 3rd quarter. Alrighty, then, how is it that Mario NEVER said anything when the scoreboard showed ND with 3 timeouts UNTIL THE CLOCK HIT 1:19 IN THE FOURTH QUARTER? This would seem to be a very belated complaint. Maybe Mario could TECHNICALLY be correct, but waited way too long to complain.

2. Maybe Mario confused the 2-minute timeout with a "fake injury" timeout assessment. There WAS a Notre Dame player down, but only briefly. All I know is that the clock stopped SIX TIMES during our final drive, once for the P.I. penalty, once for an incompletion, once for the 2-minute timeout, and 3 times for the ND timeouts.

3. Maybe Mario was misinformed by his secret timeout guru. I mean...I guess it could happen. As @rsa coral gables and I have discussed, it looks like the scoreboards on the home and away sides MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG for at least part of that drive. However, the ref correctly announced the timeouts, and you can hear that on the TV broadcast.

All in all, it certainly appears that everything was legit.

 

[WaterburyCane]

Im not reading 6 pages of this thread. All I know is it sure looked as **** like he wS surprised about something and it happened when ND called their last TO. I called it out when it happened in the game thread

Post in thread 'UM v ND'
https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/um-v-nd.200215/post-7823330

 

[423Hurricane]

Whether Mario knew or not is almost irrelevant, because Shannon Dawson knew how many TO’s ND had and made a decision to force them to use all 3 TO’s on defense.

Dawson’s explanation of that issue and why it would be hard to score against our D with 1 minute and no TO’s was basically a master class in clock management. He is a future head coach.

I highly recommend Dawson’s Monday presser be watched by others instead of throwing around all the speculative bull**** by the usual suspects.

 

[Schnelly'sPipe]

not to defend Mario or anything, but it's not his fault.
He only thinks the opposition gets 2 timeouts per half and he gets endless amount.

for the love of God change your profile picture

 

[flips]

Have closely reviewed the video. My final verdict is that Coach was simply shocked that we didn't get 4.5 yards running in the B-gap.

 

[canes732]

I give the guy a ton of credit, and he does deserve plenty of it, but I'd be remiss to not point out flaws.

Go back and watch the game again. Mario had no idea ND still had 1 timeout left when we ran the ball on 3rd and 4 at the end of the game.

There was 1:14 left to go in the game, we had 3rd and 4 from the ND 30. After the 1 yard run from Brown, they cut to Mario, and you can see him confused and saying "NO WAY!". I'm 100% convinced he was yelling at the refs thinking ND was out of timeouts when they clearly had 1 left. He was thinking he could run it down to about 30 seconds and kick the FG, and even if you miss, you're probably going to overtime. Otherwise, why are you playing for a FG with a minute left?

So instead of running it down to 30 seconds like he thought they would, you have to kick with over a minute left, and now even if you make it, you leave them a full minute to just go down to get a FG to tie the game.

Thankfully the defense bailed us out and completely swallowed Carr on the last drive, but this is maddening stuff. The dude has so many positive qualities and I was fully in support of him getting this job, and still am because the program has been flipped, but **** you've been a Head Coach for 15 years now, this is stuff that an 8 year old playing Madden is on top of.

If I'm wrong, someone tell me how and I'll gladly delete this. But I was at the game and going berserk how we played it, and it still makes very little sense but it makes slightly more if you know he thinks they were out of timeouts. Watching it back, I almost fell off the couch and immediately said to myself, "Holy ****, he thought they were out of timeouts".

Idk but I thought ND should’ve been docked a TO bc of an injury but they didn’t take it obviously so maybe there was something we couldn’t see off camera with that

 

[hoops156]

I think there's some credence to the theory that he mistook the 2 minute warning as the first ND timeout.

It came one play before ND started using their timeouts:

Marty Brown run for 8 yards to the ND 39 on 2nd and 10 (this was a MASSIVE play, by the way)
Two-minute warning
Marty Brown run for 3 yards to the ND 36 on 3rd and 2
Marty Brown run for 6 yards to the ND 30 on 1st and 10
This is where ND starts taking timeouts. First one after first down. Second one after second down. Third one after third down.

If Mario thought the first stoppage, which was the 2 minute warning, was really ND timeout #1, then yeah I'd sure as **** explain the surprise on his face when the clock stopped for the 4th time.

thats even worse that he doesn't know college has a 2 min warning as of last year

 

[jps2344]

They love it, man. You can see it in the pre-game video all over TikTok. The Canes are about to run on the field and I **** you not, Mario has to be back in the 80s. It is extremely hard for great players to lose that feeling.

If he hasn’t already, he should walk to the math department and find himself a genius and hand off all those split time decisions, preferably a nerd that doesn’t even know what football is.

Yeah he runs hot about the program for sure, mostly a positive obviously.

They have a guy. Somewhere the ball was dropped.

 

[hoops156]

o

I thought the same thing watching it but the entire approach on that drive was playing for a FG

I'm not sure why you would ever put the ball in the air on 3rd down instead of burning their last timeout. If you put the ball in the air its on 1st or 2nd down and its a high % screen or quick slant. Not on 3rd down right at the edge of FG range when you want to keep the ball centered.

I lean towards believing what Dawson said in the presser and knowing they were trying to burn their TOs and play for the FG

At worst, he thought they used all 3 already and there would be 30 seconds instead of 1 minute which doesn't change the approach at all.

ironically enough, it was putting the ball in the air that got us into position (the PI call I believe)