DB rules - What?

[Coach Macho]

After six years of running this system, if you can’t get every single player to understand how to play 2-read aka Palms aka Cover Blue then you shouldn’t be coaching this level.

We run that **** to near perfection on the HS level. lol
It's not complicated.

 

[Coach Macho]

Nope, Manny was a good DC.

Easy there.

 

[Coach Macho]

Two things I'd like to hear your take one

1) In your opinion, and given Virginia's QB situation coming into the game, wouldn't a simple man under 2 deep look have been a much better gameplan against a team that quite simply, was only going to pass when it had to?

2) On that specific play you mentioned, even BEFORE the QB stepped up and was a threat to run Ivey had stopped his backpeddle and had ALREADY released his WR behind him. Hall doesn't look like a safety who is fanning out in cover 2 responsibility meanwhile Ivey doesn't look like a corner who is worried about having deep responsibility....

So WTF????? What am I missing???

Man-under-2-deep will give the defense a 5-man box and get the ball ran down it's throat. (if you live in it)
But I like it as a 3rd & long call all day.

 

[blushrts]

You come into a game against an opponent like Virginia, who is basically operating WITHOUT a quarterback....how do you NOT just employ something simple. This game was screaming for a basic single high, man under gameplan where you force them to throw contested passes and crowd the line of scrimmage.

What make it worse is that is Manny's side of the ball, and it's still a mess even after all the years he's been here.

I've never coached a down of football in my life and I knew before the 1st quarter was half over that if 5 wasn't at quarterback, the quarterback wasn't throwing the football.

 

[Coach Macho]

Looked to me like Ivey was gearing down even before the QB broke the pocket. Looked like he was playing a Cover-2 "sink" technique.

The point is this...

And I've been saying this FOR YEARS!

Regardless of what coverage we call, it's our zone principles and techniques that are the problem.

WE ARE PREHISTORTIC SPOT DROPPING ZONE. Meaning our guys drop to their zone, look at the QB and break on the football.
What you saw on the 3rd and long play was Ivey bailing to a 1/4 or 1/3 zone and then reacting to the throw. (late)

Now, if we were playing a "match" zone, which is part zone/part man concept, then Ivey would've "manned" that WR once he stemmed vertical on his route. It's called "MOD" technique aka "Man On Demand". This is telling the DB that once my primary WR is running through my zone, HE'S MY GUY. I cover him instead of simply sitting here in a zone. This forces tighter throwing windows.

We played a very passive, old school version of zone coverage on the outside.

You guys never wondered why even mediocre QB's pick us apart at times? Because when we are in zone, we are like swiss cheese.
If you need any proof to what I'm saying just watch our player's eyes during coverage. I bet they're looking straight at the QB.

 

[305to954]

I think against mobile QBs like we’ve seen all szn we play alot of zone for obvious rzn... Diaz played a lot of C3. I felt we did press more tho..we spoke and speaks to the confidence we have for our guys on the outside

 

[CoachDannyMiaz]

Looked to me like Ivey was gearing down even before the QB broke the pocket. Looked like he was playing a Cover-2 "sink" technique.

The point is this...

And I've been saying this FOR YEARS!

Regardless of what coverage we call, it's our zone principles and techniques that are the problem.

WE ARE PREHISTORTIC SPOT DROPPING ZONE. Meaning our guys drop to their zone, look at the QB and break on the football.
What you saw on the 3rd and long play was Ivey bailing to a 1/4 or 1/3 zone and then reacting to the throw. (late)

Now, if we were playing a "match" zone, which is part zone/part man concept, then Ivey would've "manned" that WR once he stemmed vertical on his route. It's called "MOD" technique aka "Man On Demand". This is telling the DB that once my primary WR is running through my zone, HE'S MY GUY. I cover him instead of simply sitting here in a zone. This forces tighter throwing windows.

We played a very passive, old school version of zone coverage on the outside.

You guys never wondered why even mediocre QB's pick us apart at times? Because when we are in zone, we are like swiss cheese.
If you need any proof to what I'm saying just watch our player's eyes during coverage. I bet they're looking straight at the QB.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Looked to me like Ivey was gearing down even before the QB broke the pocket. Looked like he was playing a Cover-2 "sink" technique.

The point is this...

And I've been saying this FOR YEARS!

Regardless of what coverage we call, it's our zone principles and techniques that are the problem.

WE ARE PREHISTORTIC SPOT DROPPING ZONE. Meaning our guys drop to their zone, look at the QB and break on the football.
What you saw on the 3rd and long play was Ivey bailing to a 1/4 or 1/3 zone and then reacting to the throw. (late)

Now, if we were playing a "match" zone, which is part zone/part man concept, then Ivey would've "manned" that WR once he stemmed vertical on his route. It's called "MOD" technique aka "Man On Demand". This is telling the DB that once my primary WR is running through my zone, HE'S MY GUY. I cover him instead of simply sitting here in a zone. This forces tighter throwing windows.

We played a very passive, old school version of zone coverage on the outside.

You guys never wondered why even mediocre QB's pick us apart at times? Because when we are in zone, we are like swiss cheese.
If you need any proof to what I'm saying just watch our player's eyes during coverage. I bet they're looking straight at the QB.

Good stuff here.

I said this is another thread but my conclusion is this......due to the fact Manny is so big on analytics it's as if he's poured over tons of data and drawn the conclusion that the proper way to play defense is to be aggressive as all **** with the front 7, and conservative as all **** with the secondary. We're constantly playing soft off coverage but often recklessly blitzing and/or stunting up front.

This kind of gimmick works fine when you're not playing a sophisticated passing team. You look back at Manny's tenure even as the DC and some of our biggest wins in that era (those back to back Notre Dame and VT wins a few years back as an example) were against teams that were better running the ball than throwing.

I think that NC game at the end of the season is going to tell us ALOT about Manny and Baker. Will they adjust? Will they be stubborn and just keep doing their thing against a team that can really hurt that zone via the air?

 

[dantheman349]

Did we have these problems when Manny was DC? I dont feel like we did but I could be wrong

You’re right and I’m pretty sure we had some of the best pass defenses in that time. So seems like he needs to do something or he doesn’t trust the personnel

 

[The Franchise]

I don’t get it. That 3rd and 10 play to 98 on Ivey was just pitch and catch for and first. Not only was Ivey soft, he started back peddling like crazy once 98 got 5 yards upfield. Was Ivey playing halves and protecting the deep ball? Why are so protective of the deep ball against teams with mediocre QBs? I have to think there’s a reason - I’m not Xs and Os guys but it’s baffling.

Not only that, but Ivey was defending a fcking QB playing WR for the first time and was in total bail mode on 3rd and 11 giving up an uncontested pitch and catch at 13 yards. That play was unforgivable.

 

[WestGA'Cane]

What's it going to take for Couch to overtake Ivey?

 

[LuCane]

Now, if we were playing a "match" zone, which is part zone/part man concept, then Ivey would've "manned" that WR once he stemmed vertical on his route. It's called "MOD" technique aka "Man On Demand". This is telling the DB that once my primary WR is running through my zone, HE'S MY GUY. I cover him instead of simply sitting here in a zone. This forces tighter throwing windows.

We played a very passive, old school version of zone coverage on the outside.

You guys never wondered why even mediocre QB's pick us apart at times? Because when we are in zone, we are like swiss cheese.
If you need any proof to what I'm saying just watch our player's eyes during coverage. I bet they're looking straight at the QB.

Thing is some of this is taught and utilized even in Junior High. They're pretty standard across almost all levels (I'd guess even in 7 on 7 land). First time I played FS as a kid, I knew if my corner's WR went vertical beyond about 7-8 yards in a Cover 3 call, that was his man. If the #2 flared out, we kept our drops or switched, depending on the route combination, of course. We consistently reacted to Smash or Flood route combinations. These kids have to have played many of these coverage calls and I'd guess every coach has played or called it, so I wonder what's going on when you robotically sit after a WR went vertical in your zone for 15 yards... at the goal line, no less. That has to be more of a mental lapse or fear of being penalized for "freelancing."

The rest (especially when we zone blitz) I understand and we've talked about it on here for years.

 

[mirasuegui]

Highlighted for truth.. Its a little more gimmicky and has seemed to been figured out more recently but its a cover 3 play back and hope they mess up along the way type defense.. If its 3rd and medium he can bring in 3 down lineman and do his fun blitzes.. With Golden players it seems like we were more aggressive in his first year but have not been able to keep up that quality of play with his recruited players for his scheme..

I think Golden complained that his first year he was force to play 4 -3 because he didn't have the players for his scheme. Funny i think his defense that year was the highest rated defense he ever fielded

 

[mirasuegui]

Miami has been canine excrement with zone coverages well before Manny arrived. Go back and watch the FSU games against Jameis. I've never seen so much easy access spot drop zone in my life. Free yards up the seams and across the middle all game long.

This isn't a uniquely Rumph or Diaz issue. Awful zone coverage is an epidemic across all levels of football afflicting most teams. Even the typically strong zone teams like Seattle and Buffalo are getting absolutely worked this year. The Bucs made the Chargers Cover 3 look like a JV unit in the 2nd half.

Modern passing games are too good to allow free releases and drop in a zone shell. I don't care what your principles are or how hard you coach it - spot drop zones encourage laziness and loss of focus. Especially when you are a tempo team and your defense has to defend a high volume of plays. It's like when NBA ballhandlers have to defend - Jrue Holiday looks like an All-defense guy when he's guarding on the ball but as soon as his man gives up the ball he lets up, so he gets beat off the ball a lot. Zone requires increased mental focus and energy to communicate and make quick reads and breaks. You also have to prepare through film study to identify route combinations based on alignment and release.

Coaching staff can't force these guys to prepare and execute. They also can't bench anyone cause there is no depth. The only option is to stop calling the **** zone plays in the first place. When the corners are put in press against these mediocre QB/WR groups they shut it down.

agree once on Saturday our DB's came up and press, it threw the timing off for UV: good grief the first half they were going up and down the field dinking quick passes, and killing clock :

 

[cway313]

I have never seen Ivey attempt to drive on a ball. He is by far the least instinctual corner I've seen at Miami.

 

[Mikep]

They are scared sh*tless of their slow cbs. Ivey being the main one.

Another thing i laugh about is the thought of Rumph being some hellafied cb whisperer/coach. His starting guys are clueless half the **** time. I have no idea what Blades was doing or attempting to do on his big play give up...But thats consistent where we see are corners are late to gettng set or leaveing their man open.

Ive just come to realize we are essentially running a lil more agressive No DFrio Bend but dont break defense and they are happy with that and hoping the other team messes up or gets behind the sticks.

Those havoc causing dlines made our corners look better than they were in recent years. Now that the TFL's are down, the corners are getting exposed more. Thats my hypothesis. Rumphs first strike was recruiting, but we thought he was a decent enough coach to overcome it but I'm not so sure now.

 

[AlexCane]

At some point, would love to hear what we’re teaching our Corners. Guys are visibly *sitting down* in a zone after a WR has gone vertical in their zone for like 12-15 yards? On other plays guys are continuously dropping despite a clear cut 3rd and 9 pattern to the sticks.

As for the confusing sitting down on deep routes, who the **** is the Unicorn Safety who can get over the top of that vertical route? Do we simply refuse to match up regardless of distances crossed? I’m half joking, but I can’t say I’ve ever seen that happen multiple times in a game.

I mean, at the Junior High level, you’re taught some exchange and pattern-match rules. What’s going on here?

Today’s defensive game (to say nothing of the offense) had the vibe of a mid-level HS game. I said off the board I’ve seen more intensity and focus from HS games I’ve watched.

LMAO. I know precisely what play you are talking about. I was in the stadium; the play developed so slowly and it was so clear where he was going (QB stared down WR from snap), I called a pick before he even threw the ball. But sure enough, our guys were so soft and off it was an easy pitch-and-catch 1st down.

Can you explain what appears to be a dissonant philosophy between the front 4 that attempts to wreak havoc and gamble vs. the back-end which oftentimes plays to not give up big plays?

 

[omaha]

I thought it was clear that Hall did not cover over the top like he was suppose to. On all the deep balls. Why is that a corner issue?