DB rules - What?

[Jedi Master Cane]

1) I have no clue what we even planned. If their 6' 7" WR played yesterday, maybe we would have given a ****?
2) It's incredibly poor situational awareness - which is a theme on the team, it seems. Why overreact to a QB so far away from doing damage? Even if you do, there's no reasonable expectation a Safety would be over the top of you when you're at the cot**** goal line.

I'm guessing the players would explain there were some lapses. The coaches would explain we have to execute better. Yet, each and every week, we are "surprised by something they didn't put on film." Well, perhaps it's time to anticipate a team will, who knows, alter their plan?

The part that is most disappointing to me is that all the players involved in this conversation have had experience and reps in this system and yet STILL these breakdowns keep happening.

There is zero doubt we still need to upgrade the talent.....but anyone not acknowledging that Baker needs to be held accountable for this mess is basically sticking their head in the ground and ignoring the obvious.

 

[Cribby]

The zones half holes all over them and when we press we bail out , not allowing them to put their hands on wr. Which defeats the purpose of pressing or playing up close. We rarely let them play physical.

 

[HighSeas]

Did we have these problems when Manny was DC? I dont feel like we did but I could be wrong

Miami has been canine excrement with zone coverages well before Manny arrived. Go back and watch the FSU games against Jameis. I've never seen so much easy access spot drop zone in my life. Free yards up the seams and across the middle all game long.

This isn't a uniquely Rumph or Diaz issue. Awful zone coverage is an epidemic across all levels of football afflicting most teams. Even the typically strong zone teams like Seattle and Buffalo are getting absolutely worked this year. The Bucs made the Chargers Cover 3 look like a JV unit in the 2nd half.

Modern passing games are too good to allow free releases and drop in a zone shell. I don't care what your principles are or how hard you coach it - spot drop zones encourage laziness and loss of focus. Especially when you are a tempo team and your defense has to defend a high volume of plays. It's like when NBA ballhandlers have to defend - Jrue Holiday looks like an All-defense guy when he's guarding on the ball but as soon as his man gives up the ball he lets up, so he gets beat off the ball a lot. Zone requires increased mental focus and energy to communicate and make quick reads and breaks. You also have to prepare through film study to identify route combinations based on alignment and release.

Coaching staff can't force these guys to prepare and execute. They also can't bench anyone cause there is no depth. The only option is to stop calling the **** zone plays in the first place. When the corners are put in press against these mediocre QB/WR groups they shut it down.

 

[gogeta4]

If you have deep responsibility on your zone, you don't backpaddle with your back to your receiver once he's even with you, so that eliminates both cover 4 and cover 3.

I don't know what to tell you , but our defense is just a disorganized mess. There were several other pass plays where the coverage was just ridiculously soft. When you factor in how bad Virginia's QB situation was is just a real indictment of Baker's thought process regardless of what shell we should have been in.

The only reason he was even with him was because he wasnt set. **** he was basically lined up on the slot...looks like he was either trying to get out of the game or see the call. Im gonna go he was tryna get out..but didnt have the common sense to pull the Butch Davis like UVA did.

Ive come to the realization 2 years ago that Manny's defensive premise is basically a disorganized way of doing things (**** acc coaches have called it out for the last few years in pre season). But its even worse with Baker calling the defense and their fear of their corners.

They are sooooo agressive up front with all the slanting, going upfield, lack of an edge guy,etc and TOTALLLLY P*SSY on the back end.

 

[gogeta4]

Two things I'd like to hear your take one

1) In your opinion, and given Virginia's QB situation coming into the game, wouldn't a simple man under 2 deep look have been a much better gameplan against a team that quite simply, was only going to pass when it had to?

2) On that specific play you mentioned, even BEFORE the QB stepped up and was a threat to run Ivey had stopped his backpeddle and had ALREADY released his WR behind him. Hall doesn't look like a safety who is fanning out in cover 2 responsibility meanwhile Ivey doesn't look like a corner who is worried about having deep responsibility....

So WTF????? What am I missing???

2.) This is wht i saw as well....its like both of them were playing some sort of half *** coverage that neither knew. Ivey appeared to think Hall would have that guy based off the reaction.

1.) Maybe their run game would of got going with that man 2 deep with the qbs...something they scared of as well

 

[LuCane]

Miami has been canine excrement with zone coverages well before Manny arrived. Go back and watch the FSU games against Jameis. I've never seen so much easy access spot drop zone in my life. Free yards up the seams and across the middle all game long.

This isn't a uniquely Rumph or Diaz issue. Awful zone coverage is an epidemic across all levels of football afflicting most teams. Even the typically strong zone teams like Seattle and Buffalo are getting absolutely worked this year. The Bucs made the Chargers Cover 3 look like a JV unit in the 2nd half.

Modern passing games are too good to allow free releases and drop in a zone shell. I don't care what your principles are or how hard you coach it - spot drop zones encourage laziness and loss of focus. Especially when you are a tempo team and your defense has to defend a high volume of plays. It's like when NBA ballhandlers have to defend - Jrue Holiday looks like an All-defense guy when he's guarding on the ball but as soon as his man gives up the ball he lets up, so he gets beat off the ball a lot. Zone requires increased mental focus and energy to communicate and make quick reads and breaks. You also have to prepare through film study to identify route combinations based on alignment and release.

Coaching staff can't force these guys to prepare and execute. They also can't bench anyone cause there is no depth. The only option is to stop calling the **** zone plays in the first place. When the corners are put in press against these mediocre QB/WR groups they shut it down.

Don't disagree with any of it. Have an issue with some of the more egregious situational awareness instances. Some of our guys look like robots when they pass/exchange receivers - with seemingly no understanding of the game situation. Some of that is instinct. Some of that is preparation and coaching.

 

[gogeta4]

I just want to see at some point in Manny's tenure or this season he allows his 2 cbs who are bouth at a minimum 6'0 195-200 pd guys to play press coverage and get physical with receivers at the line.

We only play press bail...and the only guy ive seen jam a guy has been Tecory Couch who weighs 155 pounds and it appeared he went rogue with his jam.

 

[DomWorld_Peace]

These corners aren’t very good. And they’re afraid to have them play man.

 

[KingB02]

I don’t get it. That 3rd and 10 play to 98 on Ivey was just pitch and catch for and first. Not only was Ivey soft, he started back peddling like crazy once 98 got 5 yards upfield. Was Ivey playing halves and protecting the deep ball? Why are so protective of the deep ball against teams with mediocre QBs? I have to think there’s a reason - I’m not Xs and Os guys but it’s baffling.

It’s No’D’s bend don’t break lol

 

[LuCane]

I just want to see at some point in Manny's tenure or this season he allows his 2 cbs who are bouth at a minimum 6'0 195-200 pd guys to play press coverage and get physical with receivers at the line.

We only play press bail...and the only guy ive seen jam a guy has been Tecory Couch who weighs 155 pounds and it appeared he went rogue with his jam.

It would be nice if we sometimes redirect inside routes, too. The free releases put guys on skates. To HighSeas' point, on every level, but **** if it's brutal in some of our matchups.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

The only reason he was even with him was because he wasnt set. **** he was basically lined up on the slot...looks like he was either trying to get out of the game or see the call. Im gonna go he was tryna get out..but didnt have the common sense to pull the Butch Davis like UVA did.

Ive come to the realization 2 years ago that Manny's defensive premise is basically a disorganized way of doing things (**** acc coaches have called it out for the last few years in pre season). But its even worse with Baker calling the defense and their fear of their corners.

They are sooooo agressive up front with all the slanting, going upfield, lack of an edge guy,etc and TOTALLLLY P*SSY on the back end.

You come into a game against an opponent like Virginia, who is basically operating WITHOUT a quarterback....how do you NOT just employ something simple. This game was screaming for a basic single high, man under gameplan where you force them to throw contested passes and crowd the line of scrimmage.

What make it worse is that is Manny's side of the ball, and it's still a mess even after all the years he's been here.

 

[AUcane]

It would be nice if we sometimes redirect inside routes, too. The free releases put guys on skates. To HighSeas' point, on every level, but **** if it's brutal in some of our matchups.

How about it would be nice if we started the game with a gameplan that was specific to something we KNOW they are going to do rather than wait until the 2nd half to adjust?

It's almost as if the mentality is here's our base defense and our base defensive approach, let's see if we can stop them. We don't, typically, and we are left to adjust at halftime. We NEVER dictate on defense to start the game. I detest this approach to defense. I think Baker, for the most part, has adjusted pretty well in every game we've been in, including clemson.

 

[gogeta4]

You come into a game against an opponent like Virginia, who is basically operating WITHOUT a quarterback....how do you NOT just employ something simple. This game was screaming for a basic single high, man under gameplan where you force them to throw contested passes and crowd the line of scrimmage.

What make it worse is that is Manny's side of the ball, and it's still a mess even after all the years he's been here.

It doesnt matter who we are playing. They are a team who schematically are terrified of giving up the BIG PLAY. So they are adverse to that...which goes against what they do with their dline in my opinion. its the sole reason no matter who we play....Those qbs have high completion percentages against us. The defense is actually ok with paper cuts. Its classic bend but dont break. **** we saw it the year Kenny Pickett became the best qb that ever lived in this fan base mines the year we were a contender, i also remember a qb from UVA that bags groceries now that COULDNT miss.

I gave up hope and realize we are a defense that is schematically bend but dont break...but aggressive up front where it causes tfl and occasional turnovers. The premise is to make the offense f up on their own. Other than DL we dont force the action at all....even their blitz concepts...are delayed. Manny's sh*t is the FIRE ZONE

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

It doesnt matter who we are playing. They are a team who schematically are terrified of giving up the BIG PLAY. So they are adverse to that...which goes against what they do with their dline in my opinion. its the sole reason no matter who we play....Those qbs have high completion percentages against us. The defense is actually ok with paper cuts. Its classic bend but dont break. **** we saw it the year Kenny Pickett became the best qb that ever lived in this fan base mines the year we were a contender, i also remember a qb from UVA that bags groceries now that COULDNT miss.

I gave up hope and realize we are a defense that is schematically bend but dont break...but aggressive up front where it causes tfl and occasional turnovers. The premise is to make the offense f up on their own. Other than DL we dont force the action at all....even their blitz concepts...are delayed. Manny's sh*t is the FIRE ZONE

I'm agreeing with you, the fact we were playing a team with a hole at QB makes it even WORSE.

Manny is a pure analytics guy. Somewhere buried in his data is the conclusion that it's ok to be recklessly aggressive on the front end and recklessly conservative on the back end. Against a good team with a competent passing attack....it gets ripped.

 

[3rd-43]

1) I have no clue what we even planned. If their 6' 7" WR played yesterday, maybe we would have given a ****?
2) It's incredibly poor situational awareness - which is a theme on the team, it seems. Why overreact to a QB so far away from doing damage? Even if you do, there's no reasonable expectation a Safety would be over the top of you when you're at the cot**** goal line.

I'm guessing the players would explain there were some lapses. The coaches would explain we have to execute better. Yet, each and every week, we are "surprised by something they didn't put on film." Well, perhaps it's time to anticipate a team will, who knows, alter their plan?

It’s painfully obvious D coaches including Diàss do very little if any self scouting. A bit of acknowledgement and reconciliation there enables more optimal prep and iterative in game adjustments.

 

[k9cane]

They are scared sh*tless of their slow cbs. Ivey being the main one.

Another thing i laugh about is the thought of Rumph being some hellafied cb whisperer/coach. His starting guys are clueless half the **** time. I have no idea what Blades was doing or attempting to do on his big play give up...But thats consistent where we see are corners are late to gettng set or leaveing their man open.

Ive just come to realize we are essentially running a lil more agressive No DFrio Bend but dont break defense and they are happy with that and hoping the other team messes up or gets behind the sticks.

we are poorly coached, taught, and we have a low football IQ on that side of the ball. There's no two ways about it. I almost think we are better off just playing man every play and living and dying with that

 

[1hurricane]

He was talking ****...Al Blades was talking **** instead of lining up.

And he does it all game long him and Frierson.

 

[k9cane]

Serious question, but isnt Ed Reed supposed to give some guidance in all this. Last I checked, he was as defensive back, too. I would think this would be his area of expertise...

 

[Disgustipated]

outside of being lazy, undisciplined, slow and low IQ, most of these players don't give 2 ***** about winning. Winning and competing isn't their number 1 priority. They are happy to wear the uniform until they can declare for the NFL and hope to make it as a fringe NFL player. Than they will become hungry and focused. Too many lulls in performance to believe anything otherwise. LBs are zero help in underneath cover, they have no idea where the receivers are even going, they just stare at the QB and don't move their feet at all.

 

[Coach Macho]

At some point, would love to hear what we’re teaching our Corners. Guys are visibly *sitting down* in a zone after a WR has gone vertical in their zone for like 12-15 yards? On other plays guys are continuously dropping despite a clear cut 3rd and 9 pattern to the sticks.

As for the confusing sitting down on deep routes, who the **** is the Unicorn Safety who can get over the top of that vertical route? Do we simply refuse to match up regardless of distances crossed? I’m half joking, but I can’t say I’ve ever seen that happen multiple times in a game.

I mean, at the Junior High level, you’re taught some exchange and pattern-match rules. What’s going on here?

Today’s defensive game (to say nothing of the offense) had the vibe of a mid-level HS game. I said off the board I’ve seen more intensity and focus from HS games I’ve watched.

We play the most literal version of zone coverage I've even seen.

I've been saying this for years though.