darren krein for head strength and condition coach

[Deez Nuts]

Omg we have the most retarded fans in the world. S&C is common knowledge ? The coaches are overrated? Thank God We got a new coach who (coming from the SEC) will make the correct changes soon.

S&C is common knowledge, maybe not for non-athletic people like yourself who cant do a fkin pullup. there is no secret information out there that only certain coaches have access too. you think they are in a lab somewhere studying muscle molecules? lmao

sure there are different methods depending on what u want to do. but the information is out there.

Do u think there are secrets to defeating blocks or setting them?? There aren't. It's not about what a coach knows, but what he can get the players to do. U think Kehoe forgot how to coach, or is it he lost his edge and attention to detail??

ok so then how is your couchpotato opinion more valid than NFL players who are constantly praising Swasey??? ill wait...

matter of fact, show me one negative comment about swasey that didnt come from a message board or twitter loser.

 

[The Franchise]

I want dudes who look like Mr. Olympia. That's what football is all about.

Not so much worried about looking like Mr. Olympia, but would like to be able to generate push for a 3rd and 1 against the likes of Wake Forest, Duke, UVA, etc.

I don't care if Richt fires everyone. I have no skins in the game. But I think our problems are coaching and philosophy and signing a lot of the wrong players.

If Swasey is a problem (and I'm not sure he is because I don't know enough about what the HC is telling him to emphasize) he's about 1000000th on the list of problems.

Take a dude like Dalvin Cook. Sign him, and your OL all of a sudden looks a lot stronger. Miss on him, and you're asking your OL to hold blocks a lot longer so slower guys like Yearby can make plays. Cook also busts off monster runs that Yearby and Walton aren't capable of making. Those huge chunk plays result in instant scores and get momentum flowing and get your big men rested.

We're lacking explosive playmakers or we're not getting the ones we have (Stacy Coley) in ample space to make plays.

 

[Deez Nuts]

Just going to leave these here. Pictures to the left are pre-Marrotti at OSU; pics to the right are after a year and a half in his S&C program. The results speak for themselves.

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View attachment 34272

dude gtfoh. of course they are going to progress year after year. you expect them to look the same every year? either way you just cherrypicked 2 players. im sure everybody on the team didnt get like that. that has minimal impact on the football field.

u people think there is some secret science to S&C? all of that sht is common knowledge. shows that some of you are couch potatoes that have never seen the inside of a weightroom in your lives

You sound really angry over this, essentially calling people couch potatoes bc they simply want a change of the guard where we desperately has been lacking for ages. Why don't you have this same passion to defend Kehoe?

no im just pointing out that it is obvious that you people have never seen the inside of a gym in your life. talking about SC coach but have no idea what the **** he actually does.

and actually, i would defend kehoe with the same passion if this thread was about our OL coach dummy. Kehoe is just another victim of golden, he didnt just forget how to coach. but thats another subject for another thread

 

[FireSwasey]

I have zero doubt DeezNuts is Swaseys son who played here.

It's clearly very personal for him.

 

[Katzenboyer]

so in other words the reason we sucked *** for the past 10 years is because we need a better SC coach?? not our incompetent coordinators but the SC coach? so swasey deserves more blame the coley and donofrio?? foh man

Now you're moving the goal posts; no one said that Swasey is the SOLE REASON why Miami has struggled. It has been a combination of many, many things. Stop building straw men for your arguments.

I got involved when people suggested that the S&C coach was not important to the program. He is VITALLY IMPORTANT to any coaching staff and that's why I got invested in the argument.

dude, your the one that said SC coach was most important hire after the HC. your words not mine. so if he is more important than OC/DC, your implying that he deserves more blame the coley and donofrio. dont backtrack now. its right there bolded for you, your post not mine.

Again, you've moving the goal posts. Most important hire? Absolutely. Most important assistant coach on staff? An argument can be made because of the amount of time he spends with the players as opposed to other coaches. All of those are statements I've made in this thread.

But your comment: "so in other words the reason we sucked *** for the past 10 years is because we need a better SC coach?" are not found in ANY of my posts. Again, that's a straw man argument -- no one has said that Swasey is the reason we haven't been good the last 10 years.

Your initial argument was that the S&C coach is not important; now you're trying to say that I've written that the S&C coach is the ONLY member of the staff that effects a team winning games. No one in this thread has said that. That is the textbook definition of a straw man argument.

You took a dump on the importance of the S&C coach to a college football team's success. Your exact words:

can yall shut the fk up about a SC coach already? yall sound ridiculous. you would think the SC coach is the second highest paid position on the team from reading this board.

Clueless Motherfuggers wouldnt even recognize a strength and conditioning issue if we had some gameday coaches worth a ****

You clearly don't understand the importance of the S&C coaches as reflected by those posts. Not only that, but your argument has changed from "S&C coaches aren't important" to "people who disagree with me are saying that the S&C coach is the only reason why we've lost this past decade." Smarter members of this board challenged you on your comments, and instead of admitting you probably downplayed the S&C program's significance a tad, you continue to try to change the argument to save face.

dnt backtrack u whiny btch. you said its the most important hire after HC. dont come half steppin. by saying that you are implying that he is more important than OC/DC. therefore, second to the HC he deserves the most blame. if your saying you dont agree with all of these statements then you are contradicting yourself.

and that last quote isnt mine dumbass, although i do agree with it.

and i stick by my statements unlike u. the SC coach is not that important like your making it out to be. get off the couch dumbass. im not downplaying sht its the fkin truth... if he is so important than why is he not getting paid accordingly?? you act like every SC coach in the country doesnt have access to the same info. you obviously know **** about weightlifting/conditioning. like i said you probably failed PE in high school.

So, I use facts, you use insults. I bring evidence, you bring personal insults.

I think it's pretty clear in this thread that you're wrong, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're probably 14 years old. I won't draw this out any longer...the facts speak for themselves.

Good try with the argument, though. It's middle schoolers when teenagers get permission to access the internet from their parents.

 

[Deez Nuts]

Most important hire any new head coach can make it the S+C coach. Urban Meyer did it with Mariotti, Saban did it with Cochran. As a head coach you have to realize, this person is going to be spending more time with your players than anyone else, even you and your staff. You want someone who has the same objectives and goals you want for your program.

With that being said, a lot of NFL Strength Coaches have a hard time making the transition. A lot of NFL strength philosophies is just injury prevention and maintaining some of the most elite athletes in the world. College coaches are responsible for instilling a solid work ethic, DEVELOPING the athletes both physically and emotionally, and creating a culture of success. I know a few who I think would fit the mold of what Miami and Coach Richt are looking for.

Stopped reading right there. Where do you guys get this from?? did you guys even pass PE in high school?

Says someone who trained under one of the best strength coaches in the country, has multiple peers as head strength coaches as FCS programs. So Deez, if it's so simple why don't explain to everyone on the board how to design and implement a year round lifting program for a FBS football program

another couch potato who has no clue what he is talking about. again, let me ask, do you think SC coaches are in a lab studying muscle molecules? its not rocket science, the info is out there. there are people at the local gym getting just as ripped on their own. its just a matter of selecting whatever program you need to achieve the desired results and following through with it. The "desired results"part is on the HC, not the SC coach. The SC coach is just there to implement whatever program is needed to achieve those results.

 

[Deez Nuts]

I have zero doubt DeezNuts is Swaseys son who played here.

It's clearly very personal for him.

another statement saying a whole lotta nothing.

Im sure you have no bias and its not personal for you....with the username "FireSwasey"

 

[Katzenboyer]

no im just pointing out that it is obvious that you people have never seen the inside of a gym in your life. talking about SC coach but have no idea what the **** he actually does.

Also, you've said this about 10 times on this thread, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

Additionally, my brother is an assistant strength and conditioning coach at an SEC program currently and previously served in the same capacity at a Big 12 school with a Top 5 wrestling program. I'm more qualified to speak on this then you think.

 

[Deez Nuts]

Now you're moving the goal posts; no one said that Swasey is the SOLE REASON why Miami has struggled. It has been a combination of many, many things. Stop building straw men for your arguments.

I got involved when people suggested that the S&C coach was not important to the program. He is VITALLY IMPORTANT to any coaching staff and that's why I got invested in the argument.

dude, your the one that said SC coach was most important hire after the HC. your words not mine. so if he is more important than OC/DC, your implying that he deserves more blame the coley and donofrio. dont backtrack now. its right there bolded for you, your post not mine.

Again, you've moving the goal posts. Most important hire? Absolutely. Most important assistant coach on staff? An argument can be made because of the amount of time he spends with the players as opposed to other coaches. All of those are statements I've made in this thread.

But your comment: "so in other words the reason we sucked *** for the past 10 years is because we need a better SC coach?" are not found in ANY of my posts. Again, that's a straw man argument -- no one has said that Swasey is the reason we haven't been good the last 10 years.

Your initial argument was that the S&C coach is not important; now you're trying to say that I've written that the S&C coach is the ONLY member of the staff that effects a team winning games. No one in this thread has said that. That is the textbook definition of a straw man argument.

You took a dump on the importance of the S&C coach to a college football team's success. Your exact words:

can yall shut the fk up about a SC coach already? yall sound ridiculous. you would think the SC coach is the second highest paid position on the team from reading this board.

Clueless Motherfuggers wouldnt even recognize a strength and conditioning issue if we had some gameday coaches worth a ****

You clearly don't understand the importance of the S&C coaches as reflected by those posts. Not only that, but your argument has changed from "S&C coaches aren't important" to "people who disagree with me are saying that the S&C coach is the only reason why we've lost this past decade." Smarter members of this board challenged you on your comments, and instead of admitting you probably downplayed the S&C program's significance a tad, you continue to try to change the argument to save face.

dnt backtrack u whiny btch. you said its the most important hire after HC. dont come half steppin. by saying that you are implying that he is more important than OC/DC. therefore, second to the HC he deserves the most blame. if your saying you dont agree with all of these statements then you are contradicting yourself.

and that last quote isnt mine dumbass, although i do agree with it.

and i stick by my statements unlike u. the SC coach is not that important like your making it out to be. get off the couch dumbass. im not downplaying sht its the fkin truth... if he is so important than why is he not getting paid accordingly?? you act like every SC coach in the country doesnt have access to the same info. you obviously know **** about weightlifting/conditioning. like i said you probably failed PE in high school.

So, I use facts, you use insults. I bring evidence, you bring personal insults.

I think it's pretty clear in this thread that you're wrong, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're probably 14 years old. I won't draw this out any longer...the facts speak for themselves.

Good try with the argument, though. It's middle schoolers when teenagers get permission to access the internet from their parents.

there you go again. you are not addressing anything just saying a whole lotta nothing. you little sissy am i talking to rough for you? i didnt mean to offend you.

but srsly, why dont u address the bolded? got stuck? yea i know...

go ahead and use that cop out...getting sensitive saying im insulting you but the whole time u been calling me dumb and questioning my intelligence.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Most important hire any new head coach can make it the S+C coach. Urban Meyer did it with Mariotti, Saban did it with Cochran. As a head coach you have to realize, this person is going to be spending more time with your players than anyone else, even you and your staff. You want someone who has the same objectives and goals you want for your program.

With that being said, a lot of NFL Strength Coaches have a hard time making the transition. A lot of NFL strength philosophies is just injury prevention and maintaining some of the most elite athletes in the world. College coaches are responsible for instilling a solid work ethic, DEVELOPING the athletes both physically and emotionally, and creating a culture of success. I know a few who I think would fit the mold of what Miami and Coach Richt are looking for.

Stopped reading right there. Where do you guys get this from?? did you guys even pass PE in high school?

Says someone who trained under one of the best strength coaches in the country, has multiple peers as head strength coaches as FCS programs. So Deez, if it's so simple why don't explain to everyone on the board how to design and implement a year round lifting program for a FBS football program

another couch potato who has no clue what he is talking about. again, let me ask, do you think SC coaches are in a lab studying muscle molecules? its not rocket science, the info is out there. there are people at the local gym getting just as ripped on their own. its just a matter of selecting whatever program you need to achieve the desired results and following through with it. The "desired results"part is on the HC, not the SC coach. The SC coach is just there to implement whatever program is needed to achieve those results.

Once again, getting personal with someone who disagrees with you. Which at this point, is everyone else in this thread, LOL.

Your argument that "all S&C coaching is the same because all the information is out there" is the most idiotic, completely senseless thing I've ever read. All lawyers study the same curriculum; some lawyers are better than others. All doctors receive the same training; some doctors are better than others.

While S&C coaches all "have the same information," some are much, much, MUCH better than others. And you're discounting the various theories on strength and conditioning if you think it's one size fits all.

You, sir, are clueless. And you've added nothing of value to this thread.

 

[Katzenboyer]

dude, your the one that said SC coach was most important hire after the HC. your words not mine. so if he is more important than OC/DC, your implying that he deserves more blame the coley and donofrio. dont backtrack now. its right there bolded for you, your post not mine.

Again, you've moving the goal posts. Most important hire? Absolutely. Most important assistant coach on staff? An argument can be made because of the amount of time he spends with the players as opposed to other coaches. All of those are statements I've made in this thread.

But your comment: "so in other words the reason we sucked *** for the past 10 years is because we need a better SC coach?" are not found in ANY of my posts. Again, that's a straw man argument -- no one has said that Swasey is the reason we haven't been good the last 10 years.

Your initial argument was that the S&C coach is not important; now you're trying to say that I've written that the S&C coach is the ONLY member of the staff that effects a team winning games. No one in this thread has said that. That is the textbook definition of a straw man argument.

You took a dump on the importance of the S&C coach to a college football team's success. Your exact words:

Clueless Motherfuggers wouldnt even recognize a strength and conditioning issue if we had some gameday coaches worth a ****

You clearly don't understand the importance of the S&C coaches as reflected by those posts. Not only that, but your argument has changed from "S&C coaches aren't important" to "people who disagree with me are saying that the S&C coach is the only reason why we've lost this past decade." Smarter members of this board challenged you on your comments, and instead of admitting you probably downplayed the S&C program's significance a tad, you continue to try to change the argument to save face.

dnt backtrack u whiny btch. you said its the most important hire after HC. dont come half steppin. by saying that you are implying that he is more important than OC/DC. therefore, second to the HC he deserves the most blame. if your saying you dont agree with all of these statements then you are contradicting yourself.

and that last quote isnt mine dumbass, although i do agree with it.

and i stick by my statements unlike u. the SC coach is not that important like your making it out to be. get off the couch dumbass. im not downplaying sht its the fkin truth... if he is so important than why is he not getting paid accordingly?? you act like every SC coach in the country doesnt have access to the same info. you obviously know **** about weightlifting/conditioning. like i said you probably failed PE in high school.

So, I use facts, you use insults. I bring evidence, you bring personal insults.

I think it's pretty clear in this thread that you're wrong, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're probably 14 years old. I won't draw this out any longer...the facts speak for themselves.

Good try with the argument, though. It's middle schoolers when teenagers get permission to access the internet from their parents.

there you go again. you are not addressing anything just saying a whole lotta nothing. you little sissy am i talking to rough for you? i didnt mean to offend you.

but srsly, why dont u address the bolded? got stuck? yea i know...

go ahead and use that cop out...getting sensitive saying im insulting you but the whole time u been calling me dumb and questioning my intelligence.

I did address the bolded, many times. Most important hire DOES NOT EQUAL most important member of the staff/most important coach.

Reading comprehension. Look it up, tough guy.

 

[Deez Nuts]

no im just pointing out that it is obvious that you people have never seen the inside of a gym in your life. talking about SC coach but have no idea what the **** he actually does.

Also, you've said this about 10 times on this thread, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

Additionally, my brother is an assistant strength and conditioning coach at an SEC program currently and previously served in the same capacity at a Big 12 school with a Top 5 wrestling program. I'm more qualified to speak on this then you think.

yea right. lmao even if that is true...just cuz your brother is a coach, it doesnt mean YOU are qualified haha by the way you are talking I can tell you dont even know the basics of weighlitfing/conditioning. u probably never been to a real gym (not a hotel gym doing 10lb curls lol). but srsly, im really not trying to insult you , just saying that if you dont know what you are talking about you shouldnt speak on the subject. my apologies if u feel insulted, dont take it serious i dnt mean no harm. its just a messge board.

 

[Deez Nuts]

Again, you've moving the goal posts. Most important hire? Absolutely. Most important assistant coach on staff? An argument can be made because of the amount of time he spends with the players as opposed to other coaches. All of those are statements I've made in this thread.

But your comment: "so in other words the reason we sucked *** for the past 10 years is because we need a better SC coach?" are not found in ANY of my posts. Again, that's a straw man argument -- no one has said that Swasey is the reason we haven't been good the last 10 years.

Your initial argument was that the S&C coach is not important; now you're trying to say that I've written that the S&C coach is the ONLY member of the staff that effects a team winning games. No one in this thread has said that. That is the textbook definition of a straw man argument.

You took a dump on the importance of the S&C coach to a college football team's success. Your exact words:





You clearly don't understand the importance of the S&C coaches as reflected by those posts. Not only that, but your argument has changed from "S&C coaches aren't important" to "people who disagree with me are saying that the S&C coach is the only reason why we've lost this past decade." Smarter members of this board challenged you on your comments, and instead of admitting you probably downplayed the S&C program's significance a tad, you continue to try to change the argument to save face.

dnt backtrack u whiny btch. you said its the most important hire after HC. dont come half steppin. by saying that you are implying that he is more important than OC/DC. therefore, second to the HC he deserves the most blame. if your saying you dont agree with all of these statements then you are contradicting yourself.

and that last quote isnt mine dumbass, although i do agree with it.

and i stick by my statements unlike u. the SC coach is not that important like your making it out to be. get off the couch dumbass. im not downplaying sht its the fkin truth... if he is so important than why is he not getting paid accordingly?? you act like every SC coach in the country doesnt have access to the same info. you obviously know **** about weightlifting/conditioning. like i said you probably failed PE in high school.

So, I use facts, you use insults. I bring evidence, you bring personal insults.

I think it's pretty clear in this thread that you're wrong, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're probably 14 years old. I won't draw this out any longer...the facts speak for themselves.

Good try with the argument, though. It's middle schoolers when teenagers get permission to access the internet from their parents.

there you go again. you are not addressing anything just saying a whole lotta nothing. you little sissy am i talking to rough for you? i didnt mean to offend you.

but srsly, why dont u address the bolded? got stuck? yea i know...

go ahead and use that cop out...getting sensitive saying im insulting you but the whole time u been calling me dumb and questioning my intelligence.

I did address the bolded, many times. Most important hire DOES NOT EQUAL most important member of the staff/most important coach.

Reading comprehension. Look it up, tough guy.

wtf? so what exactly does most important hire mean? the hiring part is important but not the coaching part? you are contradicting yourself.

if he is not the most important coach than how is he the most important hire?? you sound stupid

 

[Katzenboyer]

no im just pointing out that it is obvious that you people have never seen the inside of a gym in your life. talking about SC coach but have no idea what the **** he actually does.

Also, you've said this about 10 times on this thread, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

Additionally, my brother is an assistant strength and conditioning coach at an SEC program currently and previously served in the same capacity at a Big 12 school with a Top 5 wrestling program. I'm more qualified to speak on this then you think.

yea right. lmao even if that is true...just cuz your brother is a coach, it doesnt mean YOU are qualified haha by the way you are talking I can tell you dont even know the basics of weighlitfing/conditioning. u probably never been to a real gym (not a hotel gym doing 10lb curls lol). but srsly, im really not trying to insult you , just saying that if you dont know what you are talking about you shouldnt speak on the subject. my apologies if u feel insulted, dont take it serious i dnt mean no harm. its just a messge board.

Fair enough and I'll take you at your word you aren't trying to make things personal. Just a word of advice -- people would take you more seriously if you didn't pepper your posts with, you know, personal insults.

I'm not going to try to convince you that I know what I'm talking about. I'm fairly certain through this thread that it's evident that I work in the business, as does members of my family. But maybe that's not the case, and if so, cool. You aren't convinced, fair enough. I'll simply end my argument by saying you deeply understate a strength and conditioning coach's importance on a football team's success.

I haven't made any comment on Swasey, positive or negative. It's just that the S&C coach has an incredible impact on the status of a football time. Now it's time to watch football. Happy Saturday, y'all.

 

[FireSwasey]

It's one thing to downplay the importance of S&C.

It's another thing to be reeeeeally adamant that Swasey be retained for a fourth coach. If all these guys are the same, why do u care if he's fired?

 

[Deez Nuts]

no im just pointing out that it is obvious that you people have never seen the inside of a gym in your life. talking about SC coach but have no idea what the **** he actually does.

Also, you've said this about 10 times on this thread, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

Additionally, my brother is an assistant strength and conditioning coach at an SEC program currently and previously served in the same capacity at a Big 12 school with a Top 5 wrestling program. I'm more qualified to speak on this then you think.

yea right. lmao even if that is true...just cuz your brother is a coach, it doesnt mean YOU are qualified haha by the way you are talking I can tell you dont even know the basics of weighlitfing/conditioning. u probably never been to a real gym (not a hotel gym doing 10lb curls lol). but srsly, im really not trying to insult you , just saying that if you dont know what you are talking about you shouldnt speak on the subject. my apologies if u feel insulted, dont take it serious i dnt mean no harm. its just a messge board.

Fair enough and I'll take you at your word you aren't trying to make things personal. Just a word of advice -- people would take you more seriously if you didn't pepper your posts with, you know, personal insults.

I'm not going to try to convince you that I know what I'm talking about. I'm fairly certain through this thread that it's evident that I work in the business, as does members of my family. But maybe that's not the case, and if so, cool. You aren't convinced, fair enough. I'll simply end my argument by saying you deeply understate a strength and conditioning coach's importance on a football team's success.

I haven't made any comment on Swasey, positive or negative. It's just that the S&C coach has an incredible impact on the status of a football time. Now it's time to watch football. Happy Saturday, y'all.

agree to disagree.

but how is it cool for you and others to insult me and then get offended about something i say? if you can dish it out then you can take it.

however, idgaf you can insult me all you want this is the fkin internet, im not losing sleep over it.

 

[Deez Nuts]

It's one thing to downplay the importance of S&C.

It's another thing to be reeeeeally adamant that Swasey be retained for a fourth coach. If all these guys are the same, why do u care if he's fired?

ill answer your question then you answer mines.

I dont see no reason to fire him. Everybody loves him he keeps the pros coming back in the building and that is all positve for our football program. when kids walk into the UM gym and see the pros working out and endorsing Swasey, i dont see how that is anything but a positive. good publicity for recruits and the current and former players obviously think he does a great job. they know more than us sitting on our *** typing on a message board.

Now...why are you so adamant that Swasey needs to be fired? you obviously feel so passionate about it that you felt the need to create the username "fireswasey".

 

[FireSwasey]

You must be a new fan then, relatively.

Players were coming back to work out for two decades BEFORE SWASEY GOT HERE. Michael Irvin was comin back while Swasey was goin to his junior prom.

Second of, all can u tell me how having the players hangin out with Swasey have helped us? Did we win a ton of games this decade? Are we lighting the recruiting world on fire?

Smh man you gotta learn bout our program more. The S&C coach isn't recruiting kids.

 

[Deez Nuts]

You must be a new fan then, relatively.

Players were coming back to work out for two decades BEFORE SWASEY GOT HERE. Michael Irvin was comin back while Swasey was goin to his junior prom.

Second of, all can u tell me how having the players hangin out with Swasey have helped us? Did we win a ton of games this decade? Are we lighting the recruiting world on fire?

Smh man you gotta learn bout our program more. The S&C coach isn't recruiting kids.

hahaha new fan foh you still didnt answer my question. why should he be fired?

and no, players were not coming to work out with our SC coach before Swasey stop exaggerating...they came bc they were alums. yea some alum been working out at UM, but not nearly like it is now where even players that didnt go to UM and have no connections to Miami are coming to work out with swasey.

did i say swasey was recruiting for us? i said that he was a positive for us. and a shtload of NFL pros seem to agree. why is your opinion more valid than fkin NFL players who are constantly praising Swasey..even bragging that they are "swasey-made"...you think they do that bc he is a ****** SC coach?

 

[Cityboy4life]

You must be a new fan then, relatively.

Players were coming back to work out for two decades BEFORE SWASEY GOT HERE. Michael Irvin was comin back while Swasey was goin to his junior prom.

Second of, all can u tell me how having the players hangin out with Swasey have helped us? Did we win a ton of games this decade? Are we lighting the recruiting world on fire?

Smh man you gotta learn bout our program more. The S&C coach isn't recruiting kids.

You do realize that we have 7 S&C coaches? Victor who works with our linemen is one of the best in the game. 19 years of experience working at Georgia, North Carolina and Georgia