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Off-Topic Crime 2.0

ithacane said:
Joe Q Taypayer... just like who pays for the Jan 6 show trial, the war in Ukraine, all the illegals that come across the border, all the drugs that come across the border, the Wall that Brandon built around his vacation home in Rehoboth and all the security detail around all the lawmakers who are for Defunding the Police.

Why do you ask?
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Exactly and who allots and provides those funds collected from Joe Q? Who determines and formalizes the terms of when the mentally incapacitated will be sent to a mental health facility?

The government. Yet you don't see why the government would need to be involved in this?
 
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CaneinBroward said:
Exactly and who allots and provides those funds collected from Joe Q? Who determines and formalizes the terms of when the mentally incapacitated will be sent to a mental health facility?

The government. Yet you don't see why the government would need to be involved in this?
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No...

I'm talking about the government making people go into institutions. That's what I was talking about when I said the government shouldn't be involved.

I think the original question was from @hotshot and he said something like... "similar to vaccine mandates, do you want government to be responsible for institutionalized these people". I was responding to just that part... not who pays for it. Cause the paying for it part is just like who pays for people in prison... that's the government via the citizens paying their taxes.
 
ithacane said:
No...

I'm talking about the government making people go into institutions. That's what I was talking about when I said the government shouldn't be involved.

I think the original question was from @hotshot and he said something like... "similar to vaccine mandates, do you want government to be responsible for institutionalized these people". I was responding to just that part... not who pays for it. Cause the paying for it part is just like who pays for people in prison... that's the government via the citizens paying their taxes.
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Agreed, but guess what? The decision on what determines whether an individual gets institutionalized or not is going to come from a panel of psychological experts and approved by the government, much like what happened with Covid. I just don't see how you get around it.
 
CaneinBroward said:
Agreed, but guess what? The decision on what determines whether an individual gets institutionalized or not is going to come from a panel of psychological experts and approved by the government, much like what happened with Covid. I just don't see how you get around it.
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I'm confused by what you are saying (which maybe I'm just reading your words wrong) ... but I keep tying my thinking about institutionalizing people, to how we currently incarcerate or imprison people

When a person gets arrested and formally charged... he/she will eventually be judged and if guilty of a serious enough crime, they will go to jail/prison. The judge/jury makes those decisions.

When it comes to a mentally unstable person who has no business being on the streets... they should go through a similar process and be "judged" to their mental fitness. Those people that make those decisions (psychologists or whomever) should be locally hired or elected (similar to judges) and not placed by the federal government.

What @hotshot was getting at (I think)... was that the federal government was attempting to mandate or force vaccines on the population for employment. I believe he was asking if the government should force people to go into mental institutions. I said... no... the government shouldn't be forcing that, but that it should be decided locally whether a person is mentally fit to be on the streets or not... similar to the decision to keep people behind bars or not
 
ithacane said:
I'm confused by what you are saying (which maybe I'm just reading your words wrong) ... but I keep tying my thinking about institutionalizing people, to how we currently incarcerate or imprison people

When a person gets arrested and formally charged... he/she will eventually be judged and if guilty of a serious enough crime, they will go to jail/prison. The judge/jury makes those decisions.

When it comes to a mentally unstable person who has no business being on the streets... they should go through a similar process and be "judged" to their mental fitness. Those people that make those decisions (psychologists or whomever) should be locally hired or elected (similar to judges) and not placed by the federal government.

What @hotshot was getting at (I think)... was that the federal government was attempting to mandate or force vaccines on the population for employment. I believe he was asking if the government should force people to go into mental institutions. I said... no... the government shouldn't be forcing that, but that it should be decided locally whether a person is mentally fit to be on the streets or not... similar to the decision to keep people behind bars or not
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I didn't interpret his meaning to explicitly mean the federal level only. I mean the story is talking about this being NYC's decision to go in this direction - nothing to do with federal or even state guidelines. At the end of the day, the government (in this case at the local level) will determine how those decisions are made based on a panel of experts (hopefully a panel and not just one person).

Hopefully it is successful.
 
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CaneinBroward said:
I didn't interpret his meaning to explicitly mean the federal level only. I mean the story is talking about this being NYC's decision to go in this direction - nothing to do with federal or even state guidelines. At the end of the day, the government (in this case at the local level) will determine how those decisions are made based on a panel of experts (hopefully a panel and not just one person).

Hopefully it is successful.
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I guess I took it as "forcing" them into institutions.

Most of the time these mentally ill people are committing multiple crimes. They should be in institutions and not back out in the street less than 24 hours after arrest. That's my opinion.

I'm not for going out and just rounding up people on the streets
 
ithacane said:
No...

I'm talking about the government making people go into institutions. That's what I was talking about when I said the government shouldn't be involved.

I think the original question was from @hotshot and he said something like... "similar to vaccine mandates, do you want government to be responsible for institutionalized these people". I was responding to just that part... not who pays for it. Cause the paying for it part is just like who pays for people in prison... that's the government via the citizens paying their taxes.
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Think you mentioned that you saw "psychiatrists" making these involuntary commitment "calls." Those psychiatrists, I suspect, would all be gov't employees (city or State in the NYC example) -- or paid through a third party with public funds. In other words, one way or the other, by "the government."

Involuntary commitment is a tough thing. I believe you can't just gather up homeless/"troubled" people muttering to themselves on the mean streets, or on subway platforms. Think the courts have established the precedent they would have to be found to be an imminent danger to themselves, or to others. Not always easy to prove before an incident occurs.
 
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To all you Dems on this board please tell me how you feel about Gavin Newsome letting 7,000 known PEDOPHILES OUT OF JAIL. These are the scum of the earth and are rarely rehabilitated BUT WILL CONTINOUSLY COMMIT HEINOUS CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN. If Biden doesn't run in 2024 he is your leading candidate. If you can't defend this move then why in heck are you voting for the Democrat Party who has taken morality, GOD, justice, and peace out of our Country! PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR POSTION if you support Newsome. It absolutely the most despicable thing.
 
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nickster said:
To all you Dems on this board please tell me how you feel about Gavin Newsome letting 7,000 know PEDOPHILES OUT OF JAIL. These are the scum of the earth and are rarely rehabilitated BUT WILL CONTINOUSLY COMMIT HEINOUS CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN. If Biden doesn't run in 2024 he is your leading candidate. If you can't defend this move then why in heck are you voting for the Democrat Party who has taken morality, GOD, justice, and peace out of our Country! PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR POSTION if you support Newsome. It absolutely the most despicable thing.
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Well. I seem to recall several in here say Governors don’t over see local governments so where does the blame fall? State AG, DA??
 
Tony4Miami said:
Well. I seem to recall several in here say Governors don’t over see local governments so where does the blame fall? State AG, DA??
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Tony, are you for real? So are you defending this action? These is a combination of state officials (ALL DEMOCRATS) and the great Gavin Newsom. Looks like you can't even condemn this atrocious action by Democrats. I got nothing to say.
 
nickster said:
Tony, are you for real? So are you defending this action? These is a combination of state officials (ALL DEMOCRATS) and the great Gavin Newsom. Looks like you can't even condemn this atrocious action by Democrats. I got nothing to say.
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Not at all. No criminals should be released early!! Just wanted to see who really released the predators.
 
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Okay Tony I gotcha. Sad thing is if Joe Biden doesn't run the leading candidate for the Dems is Gavin Newsom. If you want the Country to turn into California then vote for this clown.
 
hotshot said:
Think you mentioned that you saw "psychiatrists" making these involuntary commitment "calls." Those psychiatrists, I suspect, would all be gov't employees (city or State in the NYC example) -- or paid through a third party with public funds. In other words, one way or the other, by "the government."

Involuntary commitment is a tough thing. I believe you can't just gather up homeless/"troubled" people muttering to themselves on the mean streets, or on subway platforms. Think the courts have established the precedent they would have to be found to be an imminent danger to themselves, or to others. Not always easy to prove before an incident occurs.
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Like I said… it’s similar to a judge and/or jury sentencing a person to jail/prison

Someone will evaluate their mental fitness and make that decision. Whatever u want to call it or whomever pays for it I don’t know or care

But u and CIB are talking past the original point… which is that im not for government MANDATES! Whether it be for vaccines or institutionalizing individuals

End of story … as u both have gone off script
 
ithacane said:
Like I said… it’s similar to a judge and/or jury sentencing a person to jail/prison

Someone will evaluate their mental fitness and make that decision. Whatever u want to call it or whomever pays for it I don’t know or care

But u and CIB are talking past the original point… which is that im not for government MANDATES! Whether it be for vaccines or institutionalizing individuals

End of story … as u both have gone off script
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We'll see how NYC implements this new policy and how effective it is.
 
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hotshot said:
We'll see how NYC implements this new policy and how effective it is.
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Yeah but isn’t Adams proposing to do it in a forced manner?

I guess it’s similar to “stop and frisk” which probably isn’t constitutional… but would be effective

I just feel this is going to be something that hits the court system

NYC does need to do something though… their crime has been getting worse and worse for a while now
 
ithacane said:
Yeah but isn’t Adams proposing to do it in a forced manner?

I guess it’s similar to “stop and frisk” which probably isn’t constitutional… but would be effective

I just feel this is going to be something that hits the court system

NYC does need to do something though… their crime has been getting worse and worse for a while now
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That's what "involuntary" means in this context.

I don't see anybody volunteering to go to Bellevue or Creedmoor. That would really be a sign you'd gone around the bend!
 
hotshot said:
That's what "involuntary" means in this context.

I don't see anybody volunteering to go to Bellevue or Creedmoor. That would really be a sign you'd gone around the bend!
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Yeah but again... my point is... you don't voluntarily go to jail/prison either... you get sentenced there.

It should be similar for mental institutions
 
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