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Can someone explain this old wives tale to me?

BWCD said:
Forget young/old/in between - Mario's job as a HC is to play the players that give us the best chance to win every week. At the QB position, TVD isn't that player anymore. Choose one of EW/JB and roll. We (and Mario) are making this more difficult of a decision than it has to be.
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Don't even need to choose 1. Play them both and run 2 different offenses. Send them both out at the same time and draw up some trickery. Using both makes FSU's prep harder and while one is on the field you can coach and cool off the other and prepare them mentally for the moment and let things slow down watching it on the sideline.

We have nothing to play for, already bowl eligible, and our only thing we can do is spoil FSU's season and spoil Louisville's hope of making the ACCCG. I'm going to be very disappointed if we aren't trying trick plays and taking chances and making things interesting. We didn't last year despite what was going on. Don't think Mario allows the gimmicks. We're either going to dominate you and be physical or we're just going to be mediocre and roll over.

Fully expect them to give TVD another shot and basically tell him to let loose and sling it but have him on a short leash. There's no real way to take the pressure off of him and get him right mentally. Only other option is to back him in a corner and say figure it out or your time is over.
 
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JayCane20 said:
Don't even need to choose 1. Play them both and run 2 different offenses. Send them both out at the same time and draw up some trickery. Using both makes FSU's prep harder and while one is on the field you can coach and cool off the other and prepare them mentally for the moment and let things slow down watching it on the sideline.

We have nothing to play for, already bowl eligible, and our only thing we can do is spoil FSU's season and spoil Louisville's hope of making the ACCCG. I'm going to be very disappointed if we aren't trying trick plays and taking chances and making things interesting. We didn't last year despite what was going on. Don't think Mario allows the gimmicks. We're either going to dominate you and be physical or we're just going to be mediocre and roll over.

Fully expect them to give TVD another shot and basically tell him to let loose and sling it but have him on a short leash. There's no real way to take the pressure off of him and get him right mentally. Only other option is to back him in a corner and say figure it out or your time is over.
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Agreed. At this point, TVD has to be like the closer that blew multiple saves in a row - get back on the mound and throw it... if he walks the first 2 guys, yank him and go for the win.
 
JayCane20 said:
Don't even need to choose 1. Play them both and run 2 different offenses. Send them both out at the same time and draw up some trickery. Using both makes FSU's prep harder and while one is on the field you can coach and cool off the other and prepare them mentally for the moment and let things slow down watching it on the sideline.

We have nothing to play for, already bowl eligible, and our only thing we can do is spoil FSU's season and spoil Louisville's hope of making the ACCCG. I'm going to be very disappointed if we aren't trying trick plays and taking chances and making things interesting. We didn't last year despite what was going on. Don't think Mario allows the gimmicks. We're either going to dominate you and be physical or we're just going to be mediocre and roll over.

Fully expect them to give TVD another shot and basically tell him to let loose and sling it but have him on a short leash. There's no real way to take the pressure off of him and get him right mentally. Only other option is to back him in a corner and say figure it out or your time is over.
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If I’m Dawson I bang the table for the scenario you mentioned with EW and JB

Unload the clip with playcalling. Go down swinging. Or go wing T with JB, and play 1950’s football. But we cannot go into the game with the same plan of the past 4-5 games

If Mario tells him no, and pushes to start TVD I’d bounce if I’m Dawson
 
I mean - Emory already faced the best defense this team was going to see this season. That alone to me negates any argument. Sure it's on the road but from a strictly X's and O's standpoint, he's already been thrown in the deep end and shown that he can swim.
 
Cane6 said:
If I’m Dawson I bang the table for the scenario you mentioned with EW and JB

Unload the clip with playcalling. Go down swinging. Or go wing T with JB, and play 1950’s football. But we cannot go into the game with the same plan of the past 4-5 games

If Mario tells him no, and pushes to start TVD I’d bounce if I’m Dawson
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I'll say.. I don't recall Mario ever saying anything in-season about the scheme last year. It was always "it's worked everywhere else", "this is what we run", "we need to execute", etc.

This week he said "we need to scheme it better" - that dynamic might be hitting a wall. Wouldn't be surprised to see 3 coordinators in 3 years - could be by Mario or Dawson's choice.
 
jackedaround said:
"If you start a young QB against a good team and he gets crushed you will ruin him."

Where the **** does this actually come from? It is bull**** if you ask me. Players don't grow without adversity.

I have heard porsters say this in terms of why you can't play Emory at FSU over a hurt TVD. It makes no logical sense and is just a soft mentality excuse. Ask Tua.
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Listen if he’s going to be good he will be good, if it’s one game people are worried about him starting they should be worried about his entire career. At least you know what you have against a tough opponent next season so you can fill the spot. Clemson gave him problems and fsu D isn’t better than CU. You get good by playing in the game and he will have time to throw it. If they have Athletic dbs then that could be a problem but our guys got open vs NCST and they have a good secondary.

With TVD or EW fsu will pin their ears back and rush. I expect Verse to get there a few times but everyone else we can push back imo.
 
Angry Ibis said:
After seeing TVD burned down, we should absolutely test Emory. If he melts, the portal and recruiting become code red importance on steroids…
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Yeah I think people forget that TVD was in a similar position a few years ago. He hadnt played much and he went on the road and had the most disastrous start to a game you could ask for. Granted FSU was not what they are right now and TVD had more experience than Emory but you get me

But he didn’t get rattled he actually led us back to what should have been a huge victory

I was super impressed with his mental toughness so it’s not like this stuff just happens overnight usually
 
JayCane20 said:
I'll say.. I don't recall Mario ever saying anything in-season about the scheme last year. It was always "it's worked everywhere else", "this is what we run", "we need to execute", etc.

This week he said "we need to scheme it better" - that dynamic might be hitting a wall. Wouldn't be surprised to see 3 coordinators in 3 years - could be by Mario or Dawson's choice.
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The scary thing is that before Miami, Mario already had a reputation as a meddler and someone that couldn’t recruit and develop QBs…… yaya don’t bring up Herbert

With Gattis snd now Dawson, this narrative is only getting louder and makes hiring good coaches and recruiting skill guys even harder

It’s quite the vicious cycle Mario has created for himself
 
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Quarterbacks need to develop a chemistry with their wide receivers. Just calling plays and expecting different QB-WR combinations to execute them flawlessly is not realistic. It takes time to develop the timing of many passing plays. Having practice reps helps but game reps is where it is truly honed. Having an inexperienced QB come into a road game against a high caliber opponent can hinder the development of that chemistry. Its not just about the psyche' of the young QB.


This is why I've been calling Mario out for his low IQ approach to everything from gameday management to his insistence on always eating food with his hands while squatting down on the floor. Caveman management is not the way. Emory Williams should have been given the start in the UVA game. At a minimum, he should have come off the bench when it became evident that TVD still had the yips.

We are where we are this week because of the poor decision-making of our head coach. Everyone here should TAKE A KNEE :calm: and pray that Emory's ability as a QB is greater than Mario lack of intelligence. That's a pretty big 'ask.'
 
Cane6 said:
The scary thing is that before Miami, Mario already had a reputation as a meddler and someone that couldn’t recruit and develop QBs…… yaya don’t bring up Herbert

With Gattis snd now Dawson, this narrative is only getting louder and makes hiring good coaches and recruiting skill guys even harder

It’s quite the vicious cycle Mario has created for himself
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This is what I said in the Air Noland thread a while back before the season

"**If** Noland picks OSU it's starting to look very bleak. Mario is lucky the portal is what it is giving him something of a 2nd chance because he's about to duplicate exactly what he did at Oregon recruiting QB - except there he landed highly touted guys they just sucked.

When TVD moves on we might be in serious trouble. QB coaches and handlers are already pushing their guys elsewhere. Getting a portal QB isn't as sure thing as it might look like. They see the reputation and are probably going to avoid us.

I'll go as far as to say that TVD having a big season and putting up numbers is far more important than however many games we win. If he sucks and the offense sucks again we won't be landing QBs for a while and Mario's tenure will be all but locked into mediocrity - unless they drop an insane amount of cash on a portal QB NIL deal - which they'll be forced to do or accept Anthony Brown caliber QB play for the next 7-8 years."

Looks like it is all backfiring right in front of our eyes to doomsday worst case scenario. Losing games and a QB that can't even function. I'd be shocked if there's an option in the portal that picks us. Last chance probably hinges on Emory, Jacurri, or Judd being a stud if I'm being 100% honest. I don't see that happening either for the record. I don't think Mario can or will recover from it and it's hard to deflect those that say he is a QB killer.
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JayCane20 said:
This is what I said in the Air Noland thread a while back before the season

"**If** Noland picks OSU it's starting to look very bleak. Mario is lucky the portal is what it is giving him something of a 2nd chance because he's about to duplicate exactly what he did at Oregon recruiting QB - except there he landed highly touted guys they just sucked.

When TVD moves on we might be in serious trouble. QB coaches and handlers are already pushing their guys elsewhere. Getting a portal QB isn't as sure thing as it might look like. They see the reputation and are probably going to avoid us.

I'll go as far as to say that TVD having a big season and putting up numbers is far more important than however many games we win. If he sucks and the offense sucks again we won't be landing QBs for a while and Mario's tenure will be all but locked into mediocrity - unless they drop an insane amount of cash on a portal QB NIL deal - which they'll be forced to do or accept Anthony Brown caliber QB play for the next 7-8 years."

Looks like it is all backfiring right in front of our eyes to doomsday worst case scenario. Losing games and a QB that can't even function. I'd be shocked if there's an option in the portal that picks us. Last chance probably hinges on Emory, Jacurri, or Judd being a stud if I'm being 100% honest. I don't see that happening either for the record. I don't think Mario can or will recover from it and it's hard to deflect those that say he is a QB killer.
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Spot on

At this point if EW or JB don’t ball out and show huge promise for 2024, the future is bleak as **** and it might be time for me have an intervention with the team I love so dearly
 
Angry Ibis said:
After seeing TVD burned down, we should absolutely test Emory. If he melts, the portal and recruiting become code red importance on steroids…
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Facts.

Been saying for weeks. You have to move on from TVD, and start focusing on which QB is worth taking seriously for next season.

You aren’t going to the ACC game, and we’ll basically be playing in a **** bowl.. now is the time to start focusing on 24, and it starts with QB.

The next QB I think is going to make or break Mario’s time here.
 
Put Big Lou in there at fullback and Emory will have all day to hand it off
 
I'm not sure what the long term effects of "throwing a young guy to the wolves" are but when most teams do it, it's a last ditch effort. At this point, I don't think we have a choice. They've had to scale back the offense so much because TVD is broken and forgot how to complete passes downfield. If you're just going to go with a bare bones game plan, you might as well throw the young guys out there. Running the ball and kicking field goals isn't going to win any games so they really need to work on some type of gameplan that can involve both Jacurri Brown and Emory Williams without asking them to totally carry the offense.
 
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JayCane20 said:
Don't even need to choose 1. Play them both and run 2 different offenses. Send them both out at the same time and draw up some trickery. Using both makes FSU's prep harder and while one is on the field you can coach and cool off the other and prepare them mentally for the moment and let things slow down watching it on the sideline.

We have nothing to play for, already bowl eligible, and our only thing we can do is spoil FSU's season and spoil Louisville's hope of making the ACCCG. I'm going to be very disappointed if we aren't trying trick plays and taking chances and making things interesting. We didn't last year despite what was going on. Don't think Mario allows the gimmicks. We're either going to dominate you and be physical or we're just going to be mediocre and roll over.

Fully expect them to give TVD another shot and basically tell him to let loose and sling it but have him on a short leash. There's no real way to take the pressure off of him and get him right mentally. Only other option is to back him in a corner and say figure it out or your time is over.
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2 different offenses?! :ibis-roflmao-sm3: Mario aint doing that ****, lol.. Our offense at this point is 80%+ Duo run and WR screen/hitch comeback outside and option route with restrepo which acc defenses have eliminated.. so just screens and hitches.

If you want trick plays and taking chances, Mario will bring an extra olineman put a #80 jersey on him and tell you he living wild.. enjoy
 
mcnaire2004 said:
This is all dumb ****. Good coaches should know how to manage the situation. Whatever happens this game is on the coaches.
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jackedaround said:
"If you start a young QB against a good team and he gets crushed you will ruin him."

Where the **** does this actually come from? It is bull**** if you ask me. Players don't grow without adversity.

I have heard porsters say this in terms of why you can't play Emory at FSU over a hurt TVD. It makes no logical sense and is just a soft mentality excuse. Ask Tua.
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It's an old coaching cliche that just gets mindlessly repeated over and over again. It's been regurgitated so often that it's been hardwired into the collective football subconscious. To be fair, it's based on the common sense position of not wanting to overwhelm a young QB who is still learning and is limited in experience. However the times truly have changed and QBs in general are far better equipped to face those challenges nowadays as opposed to 30 years ago. QBs today are exposed to so much more at an early age in the form of better coaching, plus access to QB camps and clinics. The proliferation of the spread offense has also had a profound effect on the accelerated development of QBs.
 
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