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Off-Topic Building collapsed in Surfside

JD08 said:
I remember hearing of a very small one in a backyard found during construction back in the 70's. It was east of Old Cutler Rd south near the Deering Estate dock. That's pretty close to the bay.
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Interesting. I know that specific area is where you'll find some of the only "caves" in South Florida too. I put it in quotes because they're really almost like crawlspace types of very small tunnels you'll find in the side of some canals.

It just seemed like most of our sinkhole experiences down here usually resulted from water main breaks and then the surface roads collapsing as a result. Would be interesting to know the size of a sinkhole needed to bring down a highrise or if it just has to be a sweetspot type of deal that causes a domino effect of destruction.
 
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Tad Footeball said:
Interesting. I know that specific area is where you'll find some of the only "caves" in South Florida too. I put it in quotes because they're really almost like crawlspace types of very small tunnels you'll find in the side of some canals.

It just seemed like most of our sinkhole experiences down here usually resulted from water main breaks and then the surface roads collapsing as a result. Would be interesting to know the size of a sinkhole needed to bring down a highrise or if it just has to be a sweetspot type of deal that causes a domino effect of destruction.
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A little further west just off 86th and 169th there was a section of woods with a huge mango tree we'd climb. It had an open sinkhole next to it that doubled in size after a big storm. Now there are houses there.
 
There’s apparently a fire now. I know people have been saying sinkhole but if fire is breaking out then I wouldn’t rule out something like a gas explosion either. This stuff is very time sensitive and Fire rescue are going to be dealing with severe crush injuries if they’re able to locate anybody else. This is sad bro. This is the type of collapse you see in NYC or Boston when there’s a fire in a brownstone or wood frame building.
 
Tad Footeball said:
It's obviously the current prevailing theory but are sinkholes this close to the ocean that common? I know it certainly seems like they've been less of an issue in general in South Florida than the rest of the state too.
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They're less prevalent near the Ocean...but they are there as well...Just cavities if you will...the major cause & culprit in the Central part of the state is the Bottling companies sucking the aquifer dry...Remember Fl is limestone bottomed...with sand on top.
 
Tad Footeball said:
It's obviously the current prevailing theory but are sinkholes this close to the ocean that common? I know it certainly seems like they've been less of an issue in general in South Florida than the rest of the state too.
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It’s not exactly unheard of but something I wouldn’t rule out is one of these old underground gas/sewer lines exploding this causing a sink hole or even a gas line inside the building itself. The one thing I can tell you is that no AS OF NOW don’t believe criminality is involved but they won’t be sure for weeks anyways.
 
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Zbrod95 said:
It’s not exactly unheard of but something I wouldn’t rule out is one of these old underground gas/sewer lines exploding this causing a sink hole or even a gas line inside the building itself. The one thing I can tell you is that no AS OF NOW don’t believe criminality is involved but they won’t be sure for weeks anyways.
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I drive my kid to school everyday through surfside. The amount of construction and sewer work in the area has been massive.
 
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I am certainly no expert, but that looks like an explosion more than a sinkhole. there is nothing left.
 
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Rickd said:
Very scary. Would have to have been either a sinkhole or some sort of failure of the pilings that the building is built on. Sure hope a lot of people were traveling and not at home when the failure took place.
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South Florida is just weird. You dig down ten feet and you hit water. Never seen a basement in a South Florida house or building. My father used to be a builder though we left south Florida for Central Florida in early ‘60’s. Remember how even smaller, two story apt houses were built on pilings. Remember watching them going in on my fathers projects on Miami Beach.

Not to mention sinkholes.

I used to know Surfside like the back of my hand. I lived next door in Bay Hatbor Islands. I used to have paper routes in Surfside and Bal Harbor. They’ve always had erosion problems on the beaches. This building is not too far. I wonder if their is some inherent instanility in the ground around the beach.
 
TheMatador said:
South Florida is just weird. You dig down ten feet and you hit water. Never seen a basement in a South Florida house or building. My father used to be a builder though we left south Florida for Central Florida in early ‘60’s. Remember how even smaller, two story apt houses were built on pilings. Remember watching them going in on my fathers projects on Miami Beach.

Not to mention sinkholes.

I used to know Surfside like the back of my hand. I lived next door in Bay Hatbor Islands. I used to have paper routes in Surfside and Bal Harbor. They’ve always had erosion problems on the beaches. This building is not too far. I wonder if their is some inherent instanility in the ground around the beach.
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I've got a construction background and my first question regarding sinkholes would be "is there a regional precedent?" Sure, it could be a one-off combination of both a busted water line AND naturally occurring weaknesses in the terrain, but goodness does that seem unlikely with zero precedent.

I just can't get over how quickly and directly part 1 fell. just staggering.
 
Horrendous, and I hope anyone still alive is rescued forthright. My wife and I were in town Monday and Tuesday taking my son to visit the U (and go to the beach) and we passed by that building twice/
 
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TheMatador said:
South Florida is just weird. You dig down ten feet and you hit water. Never seen a basement in a South Florida house or building. My father used to be a builder though we left south Florida for Central Florida in early ‘60’s. Remember how even smaller, two story apt houses were built on pilings. Remember watching them going in on my fathers projects on Miami Beach.

Not to mention sinkholes.

I used to know Surfside like the back of my hand. I lived next door in Bay Hatbor Islands. I used to have paper routes in Surfside and Bal Harbor. They’ve always had erosion problems on the beaches. This building is not too far. I wonder if their is some inherent instanility in the ground around the beach.
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Are sinkholes that much of an issue that close to shore? My first thought was saltwater corrosion of the steel beems of the 40 year old building. My grandparents condo (Whitehall / Ocean Towers, finished in 1972h in Boca had to undergo a complete balcony replacement due to corrosion.

Also reading comments that suggested the culprit might be notches cut into the concrete of individual apartments to allow for redecorating or new furniture. These are done without building inspectors, and enough of them will compromise the structural integrity of a condo.
 
GojiraCane said:
Horrendous, and I hope anyone still alive is rescued forthright. My wife and I were in town Monday and Tuesday taking my son to visit the U (and go to the beach) and we passed by that building twice/
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Back during 911, they found a port authority officer and his sergeant about 15 below him alive 3 days into searching. If it happened with something that big then it could happen here.
 
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Prayers for this brother Cane who lost someone in the collapse.
 
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