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Salt said:
Thought OP was referring to either/or. Regardless as long as dbs are giving space I am all for them. Gets qbs in rhythm and sets up a fake if they start to bite hard on them.
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The problem is that they were biting hard on them yesterday, and the pump fake and hitting them deep never came.

We almost got Brashard, X and George killed on different instances because the DB’s knew what was coming and were right on them when the ball arrived.
 
CaneTheGaytors said:
The problem is that they were biting hard on them yesterday, and the pump fake and hitting them deep never came.

We almost got Brashard, X and George killed on different instances because the DB’s knew what was coming and were right on them when the ball arrived.
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That’s the counter I was alluding to. But that play worked the first half. The second half, as I said during the game day thread, their dc adjusted to it. Subsequently their defense was loosened up and it became bombs over Baghdad. No way I’m taking that play out of my play book. Especially considering our Oline isn’t very good.
 
KingCane20 said:
That’s the counter I was alluding to. But that play worked the first half. The second half, as I said during the game day thread, their dc adjusted to it. Subsequently their defense was loosened up and it became bombs over Baghdad. No way I’m taking that play out of my play book. Especially considering our Oline isn’t very good.
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I agree that we shouldn’t take it completely out of our playbook. But using it wisely and at the proper time is paramount. Lashlee, just like Richt before him, uses it way too much.
 
CaneTheGaytors said:
The problem is that they were biting hard on them yesterday, and the pump fake and hitting them deep never came.

We almost got Brashard, X and George killed on different instances because the DB’s knew what was coming and were right on them when the ball arrived.
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Wouldn't be surprised if you see this against UV. This is how Lashlee operates sometimes. He will run some plays to set up another. Putting that on film gives UV something to think about.
 
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Wrong it’s a solid staple in college offenses and stretches the defense.

It should be a relatively safe play.

is low risk - high reward potential.

The problem is our TEs and WRs block them very poorly.

Sadly its purely effort. (Hallmark of a poorly coached team.)

And usually the guy we are throwing them to (Harley) isn’t that explosive.

As we get the ball into more explosive players hands better things will happen.
 
Dghustla said:
Wrong it’s a solid staple in college offenses and stretches the defense.

It should be a relatively safe play.

is low risk - high reward potential.

The problem is our TEs and WRs block them very poorly.

Sadly its purely effort. (Hallmark of a poorly coached team.)

And usually the guy we are throwing them to (Harley) isn’t that explosive.

As we get the ball into more explosive players hands better things will happen.
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“Usually” in other offenses for other teams. Miami doesnt execute it well period. So for this team, it needs to be canned for a while if you’re going to keep playing the players who block it soo poorly
 
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Mr. Dynasty1 said:
“Usually” in other offenses for other teams. Miami doesnt execute it well period. So for this team, it needs to be canned for a while if you’re going to keep playing the players who block it soo poorly
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If we stopped running every play this team doesn’t execute well, then we should just forfeit every game for the rest of the season and not even show up.
 
nobeastofburden said:
Just unfathomable how often we run that nonsense. I just don't get it. If we used it to disguise some deep throws, I wouldn't have near as big a problem with it. 10-15 times a game though? Drives me crazy.
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We use that to set up the run and stretch the field(move the pocket). No other purpose & they're essentially run with zero positive expectations. Sucks but it's true. And ABSOLUTELY a pick six or two is in our future with those cause sooner or later well play a fundamentally sound defense with strong cover corners who understands jam the line and play bump. Move a safety in the box. Not alot of teams like that in the coastal. Nc st I wouldn't be surprised if they get one.
 
Dghustla said:
Wrong it’s a solid staple in college offenses and stretches the defense.

It should be a relatively safe play.

is low risk - high reward potential.

The problem is our TEs and WRs block them very poorly.

Sadly its purely effort. (Hallmark of a poorly coached team.)

And usually the guy we are throwing them to (Harley) isn’t that explosive.

As we get the ball into more explosive players hands better things will happen.
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No, we are too predictable with it. I’ve seen us run it to the far side of the field too often. The other poster was right in saying someone is picking one of those off for six this year. We often throw them to the wrong receivers as well. Harley is slow, I’ve seen Wiggins get a few. That play needs to go to our twitch athletes if we use it. Reserve it for X and Brashad.
 
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KingCane20 said:
Did you watch Steve Os breakdown? Did you watch Miami vs App State during the Richt era? Teams know Miami has speed at wideout so they are sitting in cover 3..How do you beat a team playing soft? Bubble…I’m not taking that away from my offense when it’s a easy throw and it’s moving my team down the field..
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No no no no no no no no no no nooooooo

This line of thinking is why we can’t develop a high powered passing game regardless of quarterback or coordinator.

You attack soft coverage with short drops and routes that develop quickly. This builds rhythm and puts pressure on the defense while not limiting the quarterback’s options.

The problem with spamming the bubble is you are relying on your worst blockers just to get ANY yardage and the defense can easily see it and rally to the ball. If the defense covers it there is nowhere else to go with the ball, so it’s bubble or bust.

Our routes take too long to develop. Go and watch the LSU vs Auburn game from 2019 on YouTube. THAT is how you make teams pay for playing soft, especially when they play safeties deep over the slot trying to cheat a third linebacker into the box. Attacking that area at the hash is key to having a high powered offense in big boy football. Joe Brady is now considered an offensive genius and it was based on simple concepts that I have been clamoring for since 2016.

Shorten the routes. Shorten the drops. Give the quarterback AT LEAST 3 receivers looking back at him for the ball within 5 yards of scrimmage the MAJORITY of your plays. Your quarterback will get hot and he will be comfortable. You will have second level defenders confused and third level guys falling asleep or cheating up. As soon as they do, you burn their *** for deep yardage on those one or two deep routes you weren’t throwing to.

The bubble was a big reason Richt’s offense struggled and it is a big reason Lashlee’s offense is struggling. Trying to use the bubble as a cheap substitute for a robust, heavily repped, well taught rhythm based short passing game is a fast path to offensive struggles at this level of football.
 
nobeastofburden said:
I keep thinking we will see that, but nope, never happens.
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We have it but not the pump fake.

The strip sack during the Bama game was a fake bubble but the target was a double move deep. It was open and King was about to throw a big play but Scaife whiffed.

We can’t run those long developing plays because we CAN’T BLOCK THEM. This is the reason we need a real, rhythm based short passing game.
 
Mr. Dynasty1 said:
Whatever you want to call them, we need to get rid of it.
Our QBs throw terrible passes on them. We block them soo poorly. The timing on them is brutal. Lastly, we usually lose yardage on them.

It hasn’t mattered who the QB was.
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I agree our execution with them is terrible. The risk is not worth the reward because if it’s successful we only get like 5 yards but if it’s not we lose like 5 yards. We have been more unsuccessful than successful with them so…….Brad Kaaya had those down pat though. I still remember that year against App State when we went to Boone and they were going to pull of the upset of the century Brad was breaking them off with the WR bubble screens.
 
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TruCane81 said:
No no no no no no no no no no nooooooo

This line of thinking is why we can’t develop a high powered passing game regardless of quarterback or coordinator.

You attack soft coverage with short drops and routes that develop quickly. This builds rhythm and puts pressure on the defense while not limiting the quarterback’s options.

The problem with spamming the bubble is you are relying on your worst blockers just to get ANY yardage and the defense can easily see it and rally to the ball. If the defense covers it there is nowhere else to go with the ball, so it’s bubble or bust.

Our routes take too long to develop. Go and watch the LSU vs Auburn game from 2019 on YouTube. THAT is how you make teams pay for playing soft, especially when they play safeties deep over the slot trying to cheat a third linebacker into the box. Attacking that area at the hash is key to having a high powered offense in big boy football. Joe Brady is now considered an offensive genius and it was based on simple concepts that I have been clamoring for since 2016.

Shorten the routes. Shorten the drops. Give the quarterback AT LEAST 3 receivers looking back at him for the ball within 5 yards of scrimmage the MAJORITY of your plays. Your quarterback will get hot and he will be comfortable. You will have second level defenders confused and third level guys falling asleep or cheating up. As soon as they do, you burn their *** for deep yardage on those one or two deep routes you weren’t throwing to.

The bubble was a big reason Richt’s offense struggled and it is a big reason Lashlee’s offense is struggling. Trying to use the bubble as a cheap substitute for a robust, heavily repped, well taught rhythm based short passing game is a fast path to offensive struggles at this level of football.
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Wasn't that the West Coast offense? Seems to work just fine, and can be done from the shot or under center. Agree completely we need quick strikes. We hardly ever use slants. A few of those and those soft zone guys won't come up on the screens we do throw.

It takes away RPO and Lashlee loves RPO. I'm not a fan of any one concept, we need more multiple IMO.
 
KingCane20 said:
This team doesn’t have the oline to do much else…
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Agree. Nor have we had a QB who could make throws downfield to keep db's from being aggessive against short throws. Short passing game can only be successful when db's have to respect all throws. We haven't been able to do this, ergo db's anticipate short throws and are all over it.

Combine not having to respect all throws with not having to respect a running game, and defensive coordinators can take away the short passing game. Not a lot of good options after that.
 
grover said:
Wasn't that the West Coast offense? Seems to work just fine, and can be done from the shot or under center. Agree completely we need quick strikes. We hardly ever use slants. A few of those and those soft zone guys won't come up on the screens we do throw.

It takes away RPO and Lashlee loves RPO. I'm not a fan of any one concept, we need more multiple IMO.
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I love rpo but it is not clicking for whatever reason.

Yeah a lot of people don’t like the west coast offense because they want to spam the deep ball. I like the big play, but you have to earn those yards. Our fans are just as impatient as many of those offensive coordinators.

I keep pointing to LSU -Auburn 2019 because Auburn had a fast, physical defense that gave LSU problems. They had a difficult time blocking Auburn, so they couldn’t use a lot of the vertical concepts in Brady’s playbook. The well rounded design of the passing game allowed LSU to stay ahead of the chains, move the ball, and even hit some deep shots. They earned those downfield opportunities while developing rhythm and confidence for the offense and protecting their quarterback from an aggressive, talented front 4.
 
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